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Old November 27th, 2021, 11:19 PM   #1
nocturncal
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How Fast Does the Stator Charge the Battery?

What rate does the stator charge the battery at, if I'm riding at ~11k? I don't have a garage and no way to hook my battery up to a tender so I'm left with charging the battery via running my motorcycle. I will probably end up buying a lithium battery soon to help out but there are weeks where I've been off of work for 5 days and my battery is almost dead. Only way to get the bike started is to pull out my jump starter and then ride to work and back, then the bike has enough charge for the upcoming days I'm riding to and from work.
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Old November 28th, 2021, 05:39 AM   #2
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Did I ask you once before why your battery is going dead in five days? Was it something like an alarm system draining it? Whatever it is, it seems like you need to reduce the drain when parked. I can leave my 250 to two months and the battery will still start the engine fine.
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Old November 28th, 2021, 05:57 AM   #3
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^^ +1
You either have a drain or your battery needs replacement because it doesn't hold the charge.

The stator gives enough current to charge the battery at about 4-5k rpms. It doesn't need to be 11k rpm's.
If your commute is highway and at least 15-20 mins, that should be enough to keep the battery charged.
If it's stop and go traffic, I don't know.

I would start by taking out the battery, charge it and test it. Either get a trickle charger or take it to a shop.
Once you're sure your battery is good, try again. If it drains again, then you have to search for a drain or for a faulty component in the charging system, most likely the stator, but also the Regulator/Rectifier.
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Old November 28th, 2021, 02:30 PM   #4
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Quick test to determine if you've got short draining battery between rides is to disconnect battery after ride. If it's still good for starting after 5-days, then you definitely have parasitic drain. I can leave my bikes for 2-months and battery would still be good for starting.

Do you park bike outside? Or somewhere with plentiful sunlight? I got one of these for my track tow vehicle in early '20 with Covid lockdown since I wasn't going to track every other weekend any more.
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Old November 29th, 2021, 05:47 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nocturncal View Post
What rate does the stator charge the battery at, if I'm riding at ~11k? I don't have a garage and no way to hook my battery up to a tender so I'm left with charging the battery via running my motorcycle. I will probably end up buying a lithium battery soon to help out but there are weeks where I've been off of work for 5 days and my battery is almost dead. Only way to get the bike started is to pull out my jump starter and then ride to work and back, then the bike has enough charge for the upcoming days I'm riding to and from work.
How old is the lead acid, agm and gel battery as they start to degrade after 3/5 years you can check the manufacturing date it usually a sticker or dimple dot or press letters and number melt on the plastic some time even clock two or three dials
I hope you check the battery fluid level if can that as most for them as they are not maintenance free even the so call sealed battery lead acid.

Step 1: With a small wire brush clean the battery terminal and bolts and battery wire lugs and check over battery cable on the other end for any signs of corrosion and clean them especially the grounds if need be.

Step 2: With multi meter check the volt with bike run you should see a minimum of 13.8v to 14.6v at idle

Step 3: If all check out take battery to any local Auto Parts store even Walmart and have battery load test usually it one cell that goes bad.
If pass the test on next step

Step 4: Change the battery backup let sit without any cable hookup check volt every day with multi meter it should stay with in a 12.4v to 12.7v range for next 7/10 days I run into battery that so slow at discharging that they are hard to diagnose even my carbon pile battery tester didn't see it .
If pass the test on next step

Step 5: It could one of two thing a short somewhere or external voltage regulator/rectifier draining the battery

You can get lithium battery but a word of caution these batteries do not like the cold weather freezing temperatures and changing and I'm not aware of any with freeze change protection.
I recommend you get an Iron Phosphate (LiFePo4) Chemistry Battery that has BMS build in for safety over change protection for fire.
Some suggestions that come to mind are Shorai, Battery Tender, Antigravity LiFePo4 Battery.

Last futzed with by shspvr; November 29th, 2021 at 02:10 PM.
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Old November 29th, 2021, 01:40 PM   #6
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Note that older Shorai and AntiGravity lithium batteries don't have BMS protection circuit. Battery Tender is nice lithium battery.

Lead-acid batteries are even worse at cold temps (we're talking 0C) here!

https://battlebornbatteries.com/lead...e-paper-study/

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Old December 16th, 2021, 01:55 PM   #7
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To answer your question how fast does the battery get charged.... the answer is not very fast at all.... it's more than likely the battery is bad ....
i've gotten used to buying a new battery every year in my years for the motorcycle, some last longer than others but if the battery is over a year old
it's chances are it is starting to fail...
my bike has been sitting for a month and I can go out there and start it with no problem... ( new battery this spring) but if they set for 3 month at a time they will be pretty much dead when you try to start it. I don't winterize my bike I put in fuel stabilizer and start it and run it for 10 minutes every month and that works for me.
and I have trickle chargers but I don't use them too often... only when I have the bike apart .
Look for something draining the battery... put a switch on it and remember to turn it off when leaving the bike set.
....MOST accessories will drain the battery but they don't tell you that
they think the drain is so low it won't matter.... but it does, because these little batteries have very little "recovery" on a big 12v Car battery it doesn't matter but on a small motorcycle battery it certainly does ! ( one small light on will do what your complaining about! )
your USB charger may well be causing the problem ! put a switch on it and you'll be fine !
....
my 2 cents !
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Old December 17th, 2021, 09:40 AM   #8
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I've had Yuasa batteries that last 10-yrs...
Panasonic batteries on Miatas will last 10-yrs..
Used to get 100-month batteries from Costco...
Lithium battery on my CBR600RR is going on 8-yrs now... no end in sight... Still as good as 1st day I installed it...

There's also modern desulfators circuits that'll break up surface layer on plates to ward off battery aging...

Most likely parasitic drain in this case. But yeah, constant drain will age battery in short order. Simple test for drain outlined above. Will buy him time until he gets chance to troubleshoot circuits.
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Old December 17th, 2021, 10:31 AM   #9
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Heck, a cheap generic AGM alarm battery lasted six years in my Moto Guzzi.
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Old December 17th, 2021, 03:19 PM   #10
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Ok well maybe that was back in the 60's and 70's and they were the cheapest batteries, k mart and then walmart... i hate paying over $50.00 for a bike battery... i can get one for my car at that price ! and it's 1/4 the size...just seems wrong !
....
Never had a bike battery last 10 years !!!! have in a car with a die-hard battery
...but that was an exception for me...
....times are changing I guess !
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Old December 18th, 2021, 01:54 PM   #11
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Progress of technology and amortising costs over time I guess. Panasonic and Bosch makes best auto batteries, but can't buy them OTC due to import restrictions & tarriffs. Panasonic is main supplier of batteries to Tesla.

Those 100-month batteries were $38 from Costco when they 1st came out. Costco's gone in opposite direction to maximise profits. Switched vendor to lower-quality product (36-months), and charges 3x as much.

I build my own lithium batteries now:
- 4x 26650 LiFePO4 cells
- BMS circuit
- case
$40-50 total

There's guy on VFR forums that converted starter jumper-pack into lithium battery by changing cable ends. Those were going for ~60U$ last holiday season @ Costco. I worry about capacity as those use smaller 18650 cells. Should be fine for Ninja 250, might not be enough for VFR
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Old December 18th, 2021, 05:34 PM   #12
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the Capacitor battery is very interesting to me ! i've seen where a guy took 6 large capacitors of a certain value and put them in his car and it cranked it for a long time before dying i was very surprised at that
those capacitors are extremely expensive however but he found them on e-bay real cheap and bought up a bunch... just one of those caps can cost as much as a big walmart battery now.... so if you see large capacitors on ebay cheap you should buy up a bunch ! LOL
that guy now has a capacitor battery that charges fast and will crank his car over for a good 5 minutes that will last forever... he will not have to replace it due to age... virtually a forever battery...using capacitors ! LOL
....
what I don't like about the Lipo batteries is the fact that they can't be charged when it's real cold.... to me that is a game stopper !
but in warmer climates they are definitely the way to go !
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Old December 18th, 2021, 07:25 PM   #13
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that guy now has a capacitor battery that charges fast and will crank his car over for a good 5 minutes that will last forever...
Remember: If it's on the Internet, it must be true!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tITpsOUcs_I
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Old December 18th, 2021, 09:01 PM   #14
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and where do you see fake in that ?
we have been misled by our scientists into thinking that is impossible
but it is not.... the motor draws less power than the generator produces
so there is an excess of power from the generator....
the down side of this is that the generators have to be large ones and you have to use a motor that is not supposed to be used on that size generator (smaller.. that generator would call for a 5hp motor and he is probably using a 2hp motor)
the flywheel is actually not needed but it helps even out the power....
you will notice that the power was not on when he first started it because the motor is so small..... once it was up to speed then he switched it on and it could maintain the speed... but only after it was up to speed... it is a tenuous balance !
but YES that can be done ! is it practical? probably not because the strain on the electric motor is very high and it will not last very long....
a few years back when this design came out I did the math and found that it was quite possible to do.... I thought I would power my house with one
but the cost of maintaining something like this is far more than the grid charges.... but if your out in the boonies with no grid it is a viable option
i've seen several videos of guys in the woods doing this with great success.
there is not alot of power over head over what it takes to make the motor run.... but what is there is enough for alot of people to have lights in the house rather than kerosene lamps !
so it is worth doing.... in some cases !
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Old December 19th, 2021, 02:10 PM   #15
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and where do you see fake in that ?
we have been misled by our scientists into thinking that is impossible
but it is not.... the motor draws less power than the generator produces
so there is an excess of power from the generator....
the down side of this is that the generators have to be large ones and you have to use a motor that is not supposed to be used on that size generator (smaller.. that generator would call for a 5hp motor and he is probably using a 2hp motor)
Uh... have you actually measured and come up with numbers???

Why, you mean I can just connect my 2-hp lawnmower engine to a Hoover Dam's 3500hp generator and reap benefit of 3498hp profit and charge the utility company myself? Who needs all that extra energy from making water fall with gravity!

Here's part you haven't measured and calculated:

ENERGY SOURCE (X wt/hp measurement A) --> conversion GENERATOR (Y wt/hp measurement B) --> LOAD (Z wt/hp measurement C)

Armchair physicists often have missing info and inexperience where touching things with hands-on experiments will give you new insights. For decades, armchair physicists claimed that no human can go over 45-mph or else they'll suffocate to death! That's because fastest humans have ever gone was 45-mph on horseback and they had no data on anything else (incorrect logic so therefore, incorrect conclusion).

Same thing with armchair physicists proclaiming no one can go faster than 200mph in 1/4-mile because friction between rubber & asphalt given by f=Nu limits acceleration. But, they didn't fully understand mechanical traction at contact interface transferring loads through to internal rubber layers via hysteresis. (incorrect physical model, therefore incorrect conclusion)

Same with armchair physicists proclaiming free-energy; they haven't actually done it 1st hand. In generator example, all you have to do is take measurements A, B and C to see how it really works. Impossible to get more energy/power out than you put in. If you hook up 2hp engine to generator, most you will get out is 2hp, and that's with 100% efficiency. No generator is that good.

Generator applies increased resistance to twisting depending upon how load it needs to drive (back EMF in coils). Easy way to understand this is 1st hand experience; find local gym with exercise-bike with power-readout and see how hard you have to push to generate 100w, 300w, 1000w, etc. It's just not just spinning pedals, you have to PUSH A LOT HARDER to generate more output power.

Then go and hook engine/electric-motor to generator to bulbs/toaster and take measurements A, B, C. What you will find is there's no excess power B from generator , it will supply exactly as much power as needed by load C. Regardless if it's lighting bulbs, charging batteries or toasting bread. The higher the output load, the harder generator will resist spinning and power-source will have to expend more and more power to keep up. Power-source A will always be higher than B & C. Measure it yourself and i'll offer you $1-mil cash if you're able to generate more power than you put in.

Link to original page on YouTube.

pick up 3x if these to measure your power-source, generator-output and load-consumption. Send me receipts, I'll reimburse you: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09BQNYMMM/


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Old December 19th, 2021, 03:02 PM   #16
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I thought we'd hear from you, Danno.
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Old December 19th, 2021, 05:21 PM   #17
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I thought we'd hear from you, Danno.


As ex-pro-cyclist, I've been struggling with this free-power conundrum for long time! Had power-meter in rear-wheel for datalogging & optimum training. Never could figure out how to get more energy out of rear-wheels than what I put into cranks! Then some of Tour de France guys got clever and snuck in batteries and electric motors!!!
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Old December 19th, 2021, 06:22 PM   #18
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Yah I thought Danno would not resist that statement too !
the problem is not knowing all the facts Danno the problem is our scientists are wrong in the statement you cannot get more power out than you put in.
there are exceptions to the rule , it's not written in stone and proven never to fail....scientist discovered in my Youth that the bumblebee could not fly
they mathematically proved there was no way the bee could generate that kind of power.... and it was some brilliant mathematical manipulations to do that.
....but bumblebees fly all the time.
throughout Human history there have been theory's that stuck that were wrong
the earth being flat, the crystal sphears,etc.etc. getting power from the ZPE field is another one of these they say it's impossible, But I believe that is wrong
...it is possible we are just not clever enough to figure it out.
energy calculations go on a "closed system" that in itself says that there cannot be an outside influence on the system... but if you change that and make your calculations in an open system it becomes possible....this is why many of the electronic FREE energy things can actually work.
I have designed a Charger that works from a low battery that will bring it up to full charge, using radiant energy.... it's design was based on an open system NOT a closed system. ... Our Scientists don't know everything I am sorry to say and they are stick in the dogma that limits their thinking
You say you cannot get anymore power out from a system than you put in
and you are absolutely correct...IN A CLOSED SYSTEM.
BUT you can get more power out of a system than you put in in an open system if you can gather that power from the environment.
...I certainly don't have all the answers, but I see no reason why something like what Jim showed would not work .. I am not blocked in my thinking ...anything is possible in my world.
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Old December 19th, 2021, 06:25 PM   #19
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...anything is possible in my world.
Apparently so.
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Old December 19th, 2021, 07:30 PM   #20
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...getting power from the ZPE field is another one of these they say it's impossible, But I believe that is wrong
...it is possible we are just not clever enough to figure it out.
energy calculations go on a "closed system" that in itself says that there cannot be an outside influence on the system... but if you change that and make your calculations in an open system it becomes possible....this is why many of the electronic FREE energy things can actually work.
I have designed a Charger that works from a low battery that will bring it up to full charge, using radiant energy.... it's design was based on an open system NOT a closed system. ... Our Scientists don't know everything I am sorry to say and they are stick in the dogma that limits their thinking
You say you cannot get anymore power out from a system than you put in
and you are absolutely correct...IN A CLOSED SYSTEM.
BUT you can get more power out of a system than you put in in an open system if you can gather that power from the environment.
...I certainly don't have all the answers, but I see no reason why something like what Jim showed would not work .. I am not blocked in my thinking ...anything is possible in my world.
Bob......
Incomplete and inaccurate data on bumblebee cause incorrect conclusion.

Please post details, schematics and test data on your open-system charger. I'm interested to see missing info that is causing incorrect conclusion of "no free energy" in this case. I've seen this claim so many times, yet no one has ever been able to prove their results (like the car that runs on water).

That and I've got way too many bikes to keep alive and one or more is always needing charging! Would be cool if they can self-charge without being plugged in! Is this from some of Tesla's lost research that we're rediscovering now?
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Old December 19th, 2021, 07:40 PM   #21
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I love physics and enjoyed studying it very much. It's clear to me that there was power supplied to the "free energy generator" in the video. It was most likely from a cable buried in the dirt under the silly device and brought up to the motor through the tubular frame.

But life is too short for me to try to convince anyone who would fall for this that it's not real. And we haven't talked about Brown's Gas yet! (other than the brief mention of running a car on water)
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Old December 19th, 2021, 10:41 PM   #22
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LOL I know alot about Browns gas I ran a Website called Hydroxy Hut for a long time and a guy I met on there (Randy)and I did many experiments on making the gas... YES you can run a car on Browns gas I say that because I ran a 3.5hp B&S engine solely on the gas coming out of my Hydroxy cells... which is essentially mixed with air for the Kaboom in the cylinder... it does work !
I was well on my way to powering my toyota pickup solely on Browns gas. with 8 cells and a 200 amp alternator that I still needed to purchase.. but never did
.... I found even though it did work that it was not worth the maintenance required the cells had to be periodically cleaned and the electrolyte refreshed
.... we did get 1 l.p.m. output for 10 amps input which is not shabby at all
others claim 5 LPM for 10 amps but that was with a frequency adjusted setup that I couldn't replicate ( i.e.Bob Boyce.) but I have no reason to doubt his claims I just did it the old fashioned way of brute force electrolysis ! and it definitely would have ran my little truck if I had 8LPM gas flow...
Randy came up with a cell design that worked much better than all the rest
so we capitalized on that and I put 2 of those cells in my truck at first....
I went from 20 MPG to 40MPG so I doubled my gas mileage but you HAVE to Reduce the gas being fed in by the carb or FI as in this case if you don't adding the Browns gas does you no good.... that point right there is WHY most attempts fail and their results show no savings in MPG I DID the fuel reduction to the point where the truck was running so lean it would barely run and then turned on the Hydroxy cells and she purred like a kitten
it took a long time to get the 14:1 fuel air ratio correct but when I finally did I got as much as 48 MPG with that little truck. ( this was driving back and forth from Redding ( my Mom's Ranch ) to Above Shingletown, Ca.
which was 65mph and very hilly. i did do 70 out on the flats but most was 65 as it was patrolled heavy by the CHP.
but alas the problems of making hydroxy gas is they get dirty ..within a week
they will be scrummed up with green slime and that will reduce gas production . .... so I decided to make my truck 100% hydroxy gas powered
but I never got the alternator , I got the cells made and the containers and all that ... but just ran out of steam on the idea because of the green goo.
taking the whole thing apart to clean it once a month to me was out of the picture.... so I shelved the idea....
Yes I used stainless steel in all my cells ...and I used KOH for the electrolyte
but later switched to Lemmon aid packets ! which cut down on the goo alot but it was still present
....that KOH ( potassium Hydroxide) is mean stuff !
Your skepticism is understandable because most people that try it never reduce the gasoline going into the engine and they are dismayed by their MPG..readings as it's just the same as before... so they conclude that it doesn't REALLY work..... but I am here to tell you it does work if you do it right !
how are you going to "SAVE gas" if you don't reduce the flow of gas to the engine ? you can't ! not in this context ! if you give it browns gas the engine runs much better, much smoother as the gas helps ignite the gas vapor....so it runs better.
the process i went through to get that 48MPG ( one trip ) is a long and drawn out battle but I finally did accomplish that. it's not a MYTH like the mythbusters said it was because they did not reduce the fuel going into the engine.... you have to do that as well or it will not work.
if you haven't done that then you don't know if it works or not !
....
when I first put my first cell on the truck I got no change other than the engine ran much smoother... but no change at all in the MPG
so I started investigating WHY.... and I found a fella in Washington state that had a tube cell arrangement that he had set up and was getting 8LPM out of it in his big Dually Dodge ram truck.... he posted a video on my site what was amazing.... his truck ran solely on Hydroxy gas and would drive albeit it very slowly, and his conclusion was he needed more Hydroxy gas which we all concurred... he was in the process of making another cell like the one he had and adding a 2nd alternator and should have got 16LPM from his system which should have been enough to run the truck at freeway speeds....
my site went down and the ranch burnt down and I do not know if he ever accomplished his goal but I expect he did and runs his BIG TRUCK on water !
it's not a myth guys it works there is such a thing as being a skeptic but you have to think outside the box some times !
....
Bob........
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Old December 20th, 2021, 01:01 AM   #23
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Bob, we need to collaborate! My specialty is programmable EFI systems; building, installing and tuning them. I think this is missing step in research on alternate fuels systems. All of efforts on Brown's gas has been haphazard and amateurist with carbureted systems. Having well documented and datalogged engine parameters with wideband O2-sensor feedback may yield some credible experimental data...
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Old December 20th, 2021, 02:07 AM   #24
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Danno...i leaned out my fuel injection by tricking it....Randy's cousin,Matt came up with a brilliant method and that was bypassing the air sensor next to the air box with a Garden hose and small garden hose shut off valve..I was talking to Randy one day and was explaining the problems of leaning out the FI on my truck and he said Oh Matt came up with a real good solution for that problem..... so I put one on my truck , I also put a metal condom over the exhaust sensor on the exhaust pipe a tube made from a tin can that tightly fit the sensor probe... other wise the computer system would sense it is too lean and put in more fuel... not what I WANTED
.... so inessance the probe got no information
in essence what it did was allow some air by the air sensor door and still allow it to suck from the air box keeping the intake clean
I could lean my truck out with that "Matt Valve "as we called it to where it would not run at all on full open and I ran it as much as half open which was a bit too lean....
....
if you want to pick my brain by all means do so ! I will help all I can
just keep in mind that was 20 years ago and my memory may not be exact
but I remember 99% of that because it was my Passion at the time
I was going to have a truck that I didn't have to buy gasoline for.... and Come hell or high water nothing was going to deter me from that goal...
... and I could still do that ...the problem is the green goo
everyone told me that I must have had steel and not stainless steel in my cells but i was not aware of any...and I was assured that even if you get some goo at first that will stop as the cell aged and got broke in.... that was not what I found....
making electrolysis using the brute force method leaches the oils out of the metal used ... during manufacturing.... and that is alot...
that is why you have to use stainless steel or you will have 2" of green slime on top of your electrolyte ! LOL... I made several steel cells that I couldn't use because of that.
I usually ran my electrolyte as strong as I could get it...to the saturation point
and that mixture would dissolve twigs and rocks where I spilt some on the ground !!!
disposing of it takes alot of baking soda !

I suppose having cells that you can remove easy and a pressure washer at hand would make it viable at $4.50 a gallon prices now.... however I doubt I could get my wife to allow me to do that to the Honda CRV she'd take after me with a rolling pin !
I need an old truck to play with.... Motorcycles do not have enough alternator to run them you need at least 20 amps and to go full Hydroxy gas at least
8LPM for a 2000cc(to maintain 60mph more for hills.) motor smaller motor takes les but they still are basically a big air pump and need allot of volume
I was shooting for 12 LPM to start with on my truck but I had 8 Randy cells and figured I'd start with that... I needed double that actually !
now figure that... 16 cells each getting 10 amps is 160 amps ! that is more than a welder takes !!!!!!!!
but with a 200 amp alternator it could handle it ... sure i'd loose some hp(the Hydroxy gas is not as strong as gasoline,and the Pull of the big alternator takes 12~15 hp) but who cares if I didn't have to buy gas at all !?!?!?! LOL.
I'ed have to use #6 cables to get to the back of the truck and in the bed
and that was going to set me back $150 bucks a length and I needed 2 lengths ! OUCH ! and this was at a time when I just retired and had only $569 a month coming in ! we were poorer than church mice and living on Ramen noodle because beans were too expensive !
although the motor has 120 hp I figured as cruse it would take a max of 50hp ( even loaded) where HP is really needed is getting up to speed
not maintaining the cruise speed....
so at the worse case it would be gutt-less on take off....
....
I've been making a plate for my bandsaw so I can get it to operate better
....and the Triumph is taunting me !
she sure is a good looking dinosaur !
...
Later all
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Old December 20th, 2021, 02:27 AM   #25
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Danno if you want hard data you are going to have to build yourself a system and test it because no one that I know has ever done any data collection on Hydroxy gas....
.....
Hydroxy gas is extremely explosive as it is ... but it will still ignite at a 14:1 fuel to air ratio... any leaner than that and it falls off very dramatically
by 16:1 it will not explode
.... I filled a small balloon once and hit it with a propane torch and the blast was so big it almost knocked me down and it was about a quart of gas !
Hydroxy gas expands a huge amount when ignited right on par with a well tuned fuel air mixture 160 times comes to mind but I can't remember exactly
vaporized fuel is another fun one ! I've made several vapor systems for that truck trying to get 400 MPG but I never got anywhere near that best I got was 80 MPG in a ford Pinto.... on one trip into Reno, nv from Vinton Ca.
but the throttle was hand and foot controlled and staggering was ever present....it just was not refined enough to be viable at the time.
....
the way I figure it, with a Hydroxy system , if your fuel to air ratio is 14:1 normally running gasoline and you add 5% Hydroxy gas( which is alot) that means you can cut your gas down by that same amount and still have 14:1 on ignition
and it won't be too lean...ratios and percentages are beyond me at the moment but that means you could cut the input of gasoline to a very very lean amount..... that means saving at the gas pump !and extremely good MPG.
....
I'll see if I can find some pictures and post them in another thread for S&G's
....
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Old December 20th, 2021, 01:24 PM   #26
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I'm familiar with generating Brown's gas.

Was primarily interested in your free-energy charger. Can you post details, plans, engineering drawings? thx
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Old December 20th, 2021, 08:08 PM   #27
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OK Here is a schematic I drew up of it....
as far as I know there are no major assembly requirements. it would be best to house the relay and coils in a metal box to help collect the radiant energy
the original design came from a fella on youtube but he only used one coil and although it worked it was slow...( so technically I did not come up with the original design I just improved it a bit.)
put it all in a metal box and add a switch to turn it on and off and your good to go.
......
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Old December 20th, 2021, 11:35 PM   #28
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So how much power are you collecting at ground-level? I seem to remember hearing there's more energy for harvesting at high altitudes.
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Old December 21st, 2021, 12:16 AM   #29
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you misunderstand how it works... this does not harvest energy from the atmosphere it harvest the spurious energy emitted by the spark being made by the relay switching on then back off making a tiny spark.... that radiant energy
is captured in the coils and then fed to the battery. radiant energy from a spark can be up to thousands of volts and sense the diodes are back biased by the battery's voltage only higher voltage than what the battery has in it get's through to charge the battery. this is a method of collecting what ZPE folk call blue electricity it's not normal electricity it behaves alot like normal electricity but does have some very strange properties.... but we can think of it as regular DC voltage and get away with it in this case.
the guy on youtube that came up with the method said his crude device would charge a battery that was almost dead in about 8 hrs the battery has to have enough power to turn on and off the relay though.... and that can be quite low
2~5 volts is all it takes to fire the relay....
he mounted his relay inside the large single coil I would mount inside a closed box with coils all around it and use the box as a coil as well.
surface area of the coils plays a big factor in how well it would collect the radiant energy obviously so tightly wound large diameter coils would be the way to go.
when a spark is created a rise in voltage can be observed in that line.
it takes a fast fluke meter to measure it but it can be measured and the voltage is quite high, this is then shed by the arc into the atmosphere in all directions in the form of radiant energy which is very hard if not impossible to detect. but it's there !
radiant energy that moves accross a coil turns once again into voltage in the coil.
Keep in mind those pulses of high voltage are extreamily short that is why you have to have fast acting diodes... without them it simply doesn't work
we're talking nano seconds in switching time or more.
...so will the battery then be over charged ?
that is a total unknown at this point in time... I would imagen that if left on there long enough it would ! but 24 hrs is usually all it takes to charge a 4 volt (measured ) 12v car battery to 14.5 vdc
...
I have not built one.... I just drew it out how I wanted to....
in my mind it should work great
...
I would not leave the battery connected to the bike though while charging it
as there are high voltage spikes ! that is how it charges, and that is very hard on electronics !!!
....I bet this thing could be made very small and compact and even carried on the motorcycle ! just put a single coil in a PVC pipe !
... it's a novel idea and I have to wonder if it really works or not ... i see no reason that it wouldn't !
....
there was one report from a guy that made one that said his battery was way better than before, held alot more power than it ever did... and that is possibly because of the "Blue electricity effect"

hope that helps
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Old December 21st, 2021, 10:04 AM   #30
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So you actually haven't actually built this device?

Going from your earlier comments, this appears to be closed system, especially if you put it in metal box?


I'm thinking of time in '70s I overheard oil exec slipping and saying something like "there's enough energy at high altitudes to solve energy crisis and do away with oil completely!". He was probably talking about high-energy ions.

Recently, Bush Jr. also said something similar, but referred to it as "entity". What does Big Oil not want us to know???
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Old December 21st, 2021, 11:43 AM   #31
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Unfortunately No I haven't built it yet... I still plan to but haven't as of yet.
....
that fella was referring to static electricity collection via towers and just a wire stretched between them i.e. Tesla style....
an immense amount of power can be gathered from "Free energy" that is not a myth by any means and has been documented throughout our history.
... I have tried several times to collect electricity this way but there is a big problem when doing it.... the "Ground layer" as it is referred to covers the ground and anything attached to the ground and is approximately 6 to 8 feet thick this is where Negative electrons are attracted to....
above that positive electrons are covering the entire earth in the air....
the higher you go in altitude the higher the voltage gets.... Henry Moray played with this and came up with a way to capture almost unlimited power with 2- 60' towers.... he proved the concept several times over but all he ever got from the government was greef, and rebuke.
and all he did was collect the energy from the air.
the most I ever got was 2 Volts and I had a 1/4 mile wire up across a valley
at the ranch ...high in the tree tops.... but unknown to me at the time the fact that the ground layer kind of even's out the rough areas and smooths out the layers .... i set that wire up in exactly the wrong spot !!!!!
I was going to try that long wire idea again here but I have a HOUSE and a telephone pole in the alley way behind the house so the ground layer is going to go to the top of that telephone pole and then gradually come back down to about 6' above the ground in about 100 ft.... that puts the back of my house in the shadow of that pole and the front is no better as there are poles there as well.... and I checked they all have ground wires going to their tops !
so I am screwed unless I use large balloons and it's very windy here so that is out !
the only way I could do it now is a large crank up tower used for ham radio antennas... but that would get me into clean air .
.... Tesla's Plate with a wire going to a coil and capacitor is a great example of "Free energy" that works.... many guys have taken a plate of aluminum
( a big sheet of aluminum roofing works great) and put it in their attic connected a insulated wire to it and got 4 or 5 volts from that plate rectified and fed to LEDS they have free lights on 24/7
....I can't do that as I have a metal roof.... that shields the plate.
Tuning to resonance WORKS.... as Tesla knew ! his platewire and coil and capacitor when tuned correctly will produce a fair amount of power even at moderate heights !....and that is considered "Free energy as well... yet no one thinks that works because it has the stigma of "Free energy"
if it says "Free energy" it's all Bunk..... but that is NOT true !
granted alot of it is but there is some that isn't !
.... A fella in Arkansas i think it was made a generator/electric motor unit that ran itself and had some extra power he could use to run his drill motor and stuff.... he made a video trying to kill all the retractors that he knew he would get the video showed him putting some boards on the ground putting his generator/motor unit (which was mounted on a 2"x10" plank)
he plugged it in to 110vac via an extension cord and when it got up to speed he un plugged the unit from the extension cord and plugged it in to the generator and it kept running.... he then plugged in lights and his drill and grinder and the video ended.... there was nothing but negative comments
to his video calling him a fake.. and saying that is impossible.....
but it's not ! the power company fights this kind of innovation they want to
keep you on the grid ...if everyone that lived in the rural areas had one of these things they would loose millions in revenue !
.... the funny thing is this device is not ZPE or anything like it....
it's simply a small motor turning a big generator and no laws are broken !
yet everyone says it is a fake ! it goes against what we were taught in school.... you cannot get more energy out of a system than you put in...
and that statement is totally wrong.... most of the time it is right however, but it is not all encompassing... it doesn't cover ALL situations ! it can't...
it's not a law even though we have been taught it is.... if there is one exception to the rule that breaks that law...like the generator/motor combination.... then the entire law is of no effect ! it becomes just a "rule of thumb"...NOT a LAW
....the same goes for "perpetual motion" something we have been taught is another impossible thing.... that is not true either ! most of the times it's true, but there has been a few exceptions throughout history that prove it wrong.... most peritual engines that work produce so little power that they are useless however .... more of a novitility than anything, a simple water wheel can be considered "Perpetual Motion"...the same can be said for the small generators that guys have made using solenoids that give a wheel a push and charge the battery.... as long as the battery is connected that is Pretitual Motion. but that's impossible Right? NO it's NOT ! you just have to think outside the box and not be so gullible as to believe everything you've been taught !

....
later !
Bob........
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Old December 21st, 2021, 12:47 PM   #32
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Tesla's one of my heroes. Too bad Edison was such a jerk and suppressed ideas from Westinghouse & Tesla whenever possible. Most of Edison's "inventions" were stolen from his workers; no NDAs needed back then.

Anyway, none of what you says goes against any known physics properties. What you're calling "open system" just encompasses outside variables not included in device being examined. And those outside influences does have an effect, or contribution. Tricky part is gathering empirical data and being able to distinguish external variables.

LEDs are my hobby and passion. I'm actually included in patent with UCSB. Even though my degree's in ME, I played around with electronics & robotics lots before university. Want to try that rooftop collector idea. But I'm gonna use a rotating wire-mesh, like Dutch windmills. Might as well take advantage of Earth's magnetic field while I'm at it.
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Old December 21st, 2021, 01:34 PM   #33
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Kool !yah I've been called a Heretic before because I think all the laws of Physics can be bent, and some people really take that personally ! LOL....
...one of my favorite saying is " Laws were meant to be broken" and I'm not talking about social laws I'm talking about Physics !
when Newton did all his experiments and made all those laws he did not have the technology we have today... he did damm good with what he had and was very scientific about his approach.... but as such those laws he made are not immutable.... they cannot cover EVERY circumstance ! recognizing that fact will set you apart from the rest.... accepting his laws as fact, will just add you to another brick in the wall ! and ALL laws are like that they cannot cover all circumstances ! like the law of gravity mass attracts mass it's immutable right ?
nothing can stop it.... it's a fact of life.... or is it? TTBrown lead the charge for Ion propulsion and unknown to Most also discovered antigravity
using High voltage and matching the frequency....(33,000 Hz. I think)
An english scientist discovered this as well as did the nautzies but no body has gotten by the governments blocking of antigravity technology... they do not want it..... YET. in the future they all will but right now it'a a threat to the nation. a Russian accomplished the task using high voltage and twisted magnetic fields.... which is probably the easiest method yet.... as it takes less voltage that tt Browns method of 2 million volts ! Something Tesla had easily with his Broadcast electricity idea and I am sure he realised it's antigravity effect as no other human has so much experience with high voltage like Tesla did ! there has been antigtavity things throughout history that some gifted individuals have discovered only to be scorned as a result.
Edd Leadscouland's Rock gate park was constructed as a result of his discovery, but the government swooped in just like they did with Tesla at his death and conpenscated any evidence and kept it quiet.... unfortunately
.... I don't consider myself a conspiracy theorist, although it sounds like it.
I just know that there have been so many good inventions that should have been made public that have been hidden by the government !
I believe that our government has antigravity craft in use right now.
Though we will not be made aware of it for another 200 years ! because they believe National security would be threatened!
if you look at it from a governments view point they are between a rock and a hard place with many of the new inventions.... unlimited power in a suitcase that could run a home would be fantastic for the people... but it would devastate all the power companies in the nation and cause economic collapse ! so they have to keep it quiet and will die to do it !
...same thing with the UFO's they will never admit it because the religious nuts of the USA will go bonkers ! riots will break out and much havoc will result..... they have documented this effect time and time again !
so they down play it as best they can and even lie to quell the uprising that will ensue, if the people really knew the truth !
People are great it's humanity that I can't stand ! LOL....
People En Mass do such stupid things ! it's like they revert back to 1920's mentality !
....
I want so bad to experiment with High voltage electricity and make a working flying saucer.... I think I could do it, if Money was no object....but alas Money is a problem so I'll just think about it !
LOL.....



later !
Bob......
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Old December 21st, 2021, 01:52 PM   #34
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the only way to know if your idea will work is build it and see !
anything is possible.... I really believe that !
you just have to be clever enough to figure it out !
....
for most of my life I have been struggling to make what I call a centrifugal engine.... something that uses a spinning mass to lift itself by it's boot-straps
about 4 years ago I thought I finally came up with the answer so I spent 4 years gathering a mill, lathe and welder so I could build a prototype
which I finally accomplished after learning how to make bevel gears without a indexer...( a good trick I must say)
I made the proto type complete with bushings and spun it but nothing happened it just shook..... so I balanced it.... then it just spun....
no force was detectable at all... but with what I know there must be a force generated in the upward direction..... but some unknown force to me is canceling that, and I am completely stumped as to what it is !
it's fundamental like the equal and opposite reaction, but I can't figure it out!
it probably has to do with spinning mass ....
I do know it takes a bunch of force to turn it LOL...... it now hangs on the wall of my shop ! the 3rd attempt !
all I am trying to do is cancel the equal and opposite reaction of a spinning wheel that is out of balance.... in a nut shell if I could do that space travel would be no problem flight would be no problem and even generating power would be no problem....
but I cannot figure out how to do it ! I thought I had... but Nope !

When in doubt BUILD IT !!!
...
Bob.......
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Old December 21st, 2021, 07:17 PM   #35
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Pentagon has just formed UAP group for all branches of military, so that says something... Many of my friends in Navy & AF said that decades ago, they can read your ID from satelites in space! All those fuzzy photos you see is just cover-up to hide their true capabilities.

"Laws" of physics are just mankind's way of explaining our universe. It's always being updated and adjusted to explain and incorporate new observations and discoveries. One of these being age-old "speed of light" limit. Apparently it applies mostly to objects with mass, which gains infinite mass as one approaches speed of light.

Things have been observed traveling at twice speed of light in far-off space. And quantum-entangled pairs can send their state-data across distances faster than light can travel. Well, light itself varies its speed depending upon medium its traveling through. Like with speed-of-sound, new technologies will modify current known "laws" and allow what is impossible today.

As for your spinner, try harnessing external energy. Have you ever tried spinning discs of mercury?

Try this experiment:
1. drop magnet from 10ft and time its descent to hitting ground
2. drop same magnet through 10ft of copper tubing. Time how long it takes to hit ground at other end
3. compare times between #1 & #2
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Old December 21st, 2021, 09:13 PM   #36
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No I haven't tried spinning a disk of mercury ... I had some mercury when I was a Kid my Dad gave it to me to play with it was great... now we know it will kill you but no one knew that back then ! LOL
Dad worked at Aerojet General in L.A. when I was a Kid of 3 years old.... the stories he would tell of the rocket engines exploding as they tried exotic fuels was amazing Dad left when he and his buddy were the only ones left of the entire work crew...every one else had been killed...it was very dangerous work.
....
I totally believe faster than light travel is possible, all you have to do is reduce the weight to zero and that is easy enough to do with 2 million volts and a signal generator or you can twist magnet fields that are charged with 100k volts that works too .... for some reason that can block the Higgs boson...
it also makes the thing your playing with go incandescent sometimes !
so that bright light that zooms by in the day that is going so fast you can barely see it..... their using that technology !
....
playing with magnets especially the real strong rare earth magnets is very educational ! one day playing with magnets will teach you more than any book on magnetic fields will that's for sure !
Tesla said frequency and harmonics are the most important things
I have been a Ham radio operator in the past and got my advanced license's
and my forte was antenna theory and man that is really interesting !
....
I think a 50ft wire hooked to a large coil and hefty capacitor can be tuned to the suns frequency and you would have all the electrical power you could ever use...even at night, it would still work just reduced a small amount !
....if nothing else you could tune to man made noise and collect power that way..... that would light your LEDS 24/7 !!!! resonance and harmonics is so fascinating !
Did you know that the earth sits in a resonant trough because the sun is ringing like a bell ? that's a little known fact !
that is also why almost all the planets orbits are perfectly circular their setting in a harmonic trough at multiple wavelengths....at least until something disturbs that orbit....
Scientists will tell you that yes the sun rings like a bell but it rings at a multitude of frequencies at the same time ,which is true but there is a PEAK
in that frequency range and that makes the harmonic troughs possible !
I don't remember what that frequency is right now ...I knew it at one time it was a bitch to find !!!!!
....
Bob.........
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