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Old April 1st, 2022, 07:06 PM   #1
jakub84
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Name: Jakub
Location: Sydney
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Motorcycle(s): Kawasaki ninja 250

Posts: 4
Engine does not start

G'day
I've been riding my ninja for the last few years and it started to have issues with keeping RPMs and then I got to the stage where the engine started to stall after the start. I could not get it to any higher RPMs than idle.
Previously I was servicing my bike with local mechanic, but this time I thought I will try to manage myself. Obviously I encountered some challenges, hence seeking help here.

What I have:
it is a 2009 Ninja, NSW Australia, circa 29k km.

What I have done so far,
1 - I've took out spark plugs - which looked ok,

2- Removed Carbs - which was a hell of a task - as I could not cope with the airbox. So I removed the battery and few other elements.

3 - drained and cleared carbs.

4 - connected carbs back - that's where my confidence dropped as I am not sure if I managed all the hoses correctly.

5- connected the battery, and put the fuel tank on top.


So now we are arriving to the challenges section:

1 - initially when tried to start the engine, it started to crank - all good sounds but it did not start. Tried maybe like 5 times, 3sec each.

2 - after initial check I discovered that I have not plugged correctly the spark plug cover cable. I fixed that. Though I had a key in ignition, could hear a spark, when connecting.

3 - the drama point. Now the bike is silent when I click the ignition button.

Some description of where I am at:
- when I put the key in and rotate, everything lights up as it should be.
- the red light next to the fuel indicator does not go off.
- Solenoid does not click

Initially I thought it has to do with the solenoid, so I ordered new one and replaced. That did not help.

If I short the solenoid engine starts to crank, but I did not dare to try to start it.

Where I failed - I can't find the service module cable, so cant read the codes.

I've uploaded few pictures, of the cables floating around the battery, I've made a bit of mess over there.

Link to pics: https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...TSEHn4xX7zjS70

Thank you in advance for any clues.

Cheers
Jakub
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Old April 1st, 2022, 07:30 PM   #2
DannoXYZ
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MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Hi Jakub & welcome to Ninjette!!!!

You got cables all back together fine, good job!

There's multiple causes of issues you're having. To figure it out, we're gonna have to get some concrete data on electricals. Do you have multimeter to measure some voltages? This is 5-minute fix with multimeter.
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Old April 1st, 2022, 08:14 PM   #3
jakub84
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Name: Jakub
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Yep,
I have a multimeter.

My current understanding is, that there is some safety mechanism which prevents me from turning on the engine.

Things I checked so far:
My battery is ok,
bike is on neutral (and the green N light is on).
Regardless of clutch position it does not start.
As when crossed it starts to turn, starter is ok.
I am pretty sure I have not touched the vehicle down sensor.

Would be really handy I could find out that service mode cable which I should ground. in which socket it should be? thinking if this is simply missing I could connect a cable, but maybe simply mine does not have it by design? (no idea).

Thanks again for any help here!


Edit:
The more I think about this, there more I loose confidence in my hose routing.
I added another folder to the drive: https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...6P?usp=sharing
- image 2399 - hose on the left hand side of the fuel tank - that currently goes no where
- 2400 - bottom left hose from carbs (small one) when disconnected leaks green fluid - assuming coolant (I am really lame). lost decent amount of the liquid along the way.
- 2403 - bottom hose goes behind carb to the top and then it is a connected to another hose through a plastic white (semi transparent) 'bottle' visible on 2404 and 2405

Described above are the ones which freaks me out the most.

Last futzed with by jakub84; April 1st, 2022 at 08:51 PM. Reason: more info
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Old April 2nd, 2022, 05:09 PM   #4
DannoXYZ
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MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
2400 is tank vent. Should go through wire loop at bottom of frame and aim at ground.

Looks like your hoses are OK. Coolant connects to float bowls to heat petrol for better atomisation. Little clear bottle is to condense steam back to liquid for return to cooling system.

One concern is your petrol-supply hose to carb-inlet is kinked badly. It should wrap around front of coast-enricher (UFO thing) for minimal bends. You can use this picture to verify carb hoses are correct:



This bike doesn't have EFI, so no diagnostic port.
No tip-over sensor.
Red light on clocks won't go out until engine is running.
Same thing with headlight not turning on until engine is spinning.

Starter-solenoid's activation coil is grounded through series-circuit through neutral switch, side-stand switch, and clutch-switch. If any of those isn't set right, solenoid won't activate. Even if you're applying power to other side of activation coil.

Get service-manual for your bike. There's electronics troubleshooting section that will help test various systems to find faults.
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Old April 2nd, 2022, 09:21 PM   #5
jakub84
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Thanks Danno!
I think I am settled on the hoses atm.
Thank you for your confirmation.

Taken out stick coils. Primary winding resistance seems to be around 3 Ohm, higher than manual says. and secondary winding is 18K whereas manual says 10-16K Ohm.
Potentially they are the end of life, but for now I would assume they do not cause my issue and will put them back.
I do not have PVA, so will not test peak voltage.

will report back further progress as I go.

Thanks Danno!
I think I am settled on the hoses atm.
Thank you for your confirmation.

Taken out stick coils. Primary winding resistance seems to be around 3 Ohm, higher than manual says. and secondary winding is 18K whereas manual says 10-16K Ohm.
Potentially they are the end of life, but for now I would assume they do not cause my issue and will put them back.
I do not have PVA, so will not test peak voltage.

will report back further progress as I go.


Edit with more info:
- fuel hose is rectified and rerouted for a better flow, I've noticed that issue as I made photos.
- crankshaft sensor has right resistance, though have not checked PVA.
- Igniter gets right voltage in - but I have not figured out how to check if the igniter itself works as it should.
- I am worried about the diodes,

I am not sure if I test them correctly:

There is one simple diode with 2 pins on the right front, it does not have any lock so I just shifted it out.
tried to check with my multimeter the resistance having 200Ohm, but nothing really happened - getting 0L.

For diodes which are above the battery, these 2x3 I tried to check resistance between top and bottom pin (so 3 checks) and all of them returned 0L - as no value.

They do not look harmed in any way, I find it odd that all 3 would be gone.

Thanks in advance!
Jakub

Thanks in advance!
Jakub

Last futzed with by jakub84; April 2nd, 2022 at 10:47 PM.
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Old April 3rd, 2022, 10:05 AM   #6
DannoXYZ
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MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Diodes should be OK. Measure resistance in both directions.

They form OR circuit with interloc switches. Starter solenoid should be grounded with clutch squeezed OR neutral-switch grounded.
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Old April 4th, 2022, 03:05 AM   #7
jakub84
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Name: Jakub
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Hi Danno,
thanks for your assistance,

So it seems ....
It was the bloody "vehicle down sensor" which I misplaced with all that mess I've done. The last thing I checked.

Anyway, it was a beautiful sound to hear how it cranks and after a good minute it started run like a new.

What a time to be alive!

Thanks!!
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Old April 4th, 2022, 07:41 AM   #8
DannoXYZ
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MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
ah, didn't realise OZ carb versions had tip-over sensor. Thought only EFI versions had that. Learn something new every day, thanks!

Good work getting it running again!
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