Underside covered in sludge/oil

[tsdexter]

Should I have this much sludge/oil on the underside of the engine? Is it just from chain or should I worry? It also gets all over the underside of fairings and the very bottom front closest to the front wheel...

Link to original page on YouTube.

[rojoracing53]

The color of it on you finger looks like oil so I"d clean EVERYTHING including you chain really good then finish the motor area with brake cleaner so its perfectly dry then check you oil level. If the oil level is good then go for a short couple mile ride and then check it again for the source of the leak.

You don't by chance use oil on your chain do you?

[sLick415]

Thats definitely not normal.

[tsdexter]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

The color of it on you finger looks like oil so I"d clean EVERYTHING including you chain really good then finish the motor area with brake cleaner so its perfectly dry then check you oil level. If the oil level is good then go for a short couple mile ride and then check it again for the source of the leak.

You don't by chance use oil on your chain do you?

Thanks for the advice.

Couple of questions...

I hear brake cleaner is pretty serious stuff... Any spots I shouldn't use it/avoid spraying it? Should I spray on cloth then just wipe?

I'm doing EBC HH brakes, galfer braided SS brake line, spark plugs and an oil change later this week, should I do this before or after that (specifically the oil change)?

I use a combination of DuPont Teflon multi use dry wax lubricant (squirt bottle) when on the road and DuPont Teflon chain saver dry self cleaning lube (spray bottle) at home (the newer formula that replaced the spray dry wax and is "designed" for motorcycles... This is all under and around the front sprocket/chain tho..

[tsdexter]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

The color of it on you finger looks like oil so I"d clean EVERYTHING including you chain really good then finish the motor area with brake cleaner so its perfectly dry then check you oil level. If the oil level is good then go for a short couple mile ride and then check it again for the source of the leak.

You don't by chance use oil on your chain do you?

Also of note, my oil level has maintained within the acceptable levels according to view glass over the last 5149km (~3200 miles)

[rojoracing53]

I'd clean everything first and figure out where this oil/sludge is coming from before changing the oil because if you have to repair anything your probably going to have to drain the oil anyways. Brake cleaner won't hurt anything OEM except may the unpainted plastics. A good full concentrate degreaser will work fine at removing this stuff and be safe for everything. Just use the brake cleaner to dry out the areas you suspect the leak could be coming from.

[tsdexter]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

I'd clean everything first and figure out where this oil/sludge is coming from before changing the oil because if you have to repair anything your probably going to have to drain the oil anyways. Brake cleaner won't hurt anything OEM except may the unpainted plastics. A good full concentrate degreaser will work fine at removing this stuff and be safe for everything. Just use the brake cleaner to dry out the areas you suspect the leak could be coming from.

Ok, I'll do it tonight.

Am I OK to ride a few miles with all the fairings off (including the headlight/front fairing)

[rojoracing53]

If your going to ride without the fairing its recommended you go crash the bike first but I guess as long as you make sure there's no loose grommets or anything that can fall off you should be fine. @Jiggles knows about riding with out fairings I believe. Before you go riding off let the bike warm up a good amount on the stand to see if the leak starts before you even need to ride it.

[Jiggles]

Yea it works fine

[Live2ride]

Check your forks for a leak. I had mine leak once and that sludge was showing up everywhere from falling off the fork. It would mix with the brake dust to make the sludge then dropped on the rim and flung right back into the engine / front fairing.

[tsdexter]

Originally Posted by Live2ride

Check your forks for a leak. I had mine leak once and that sludge was showing up everywhere from falling off the fork. It would mix with the brake dust to make the sludge then dropped on the rim and flung right back into the engine / front fairing.

I think that is potentially it. The right side fork had a bit of greasy stuff on the metal part whereas the left didn't...I'll get a pic a bit later to see what I mean... And that's where it's often worse, right at the bottom of the front fairing, in the front, where the two side fairings attach together with a rivet, and then all along the bottom underneath there like in the pic and on the inside of the fair right where there is a hole between the two just behind the front wheel..

How would I go about diagnosing and fixing such a leak?

[Live2ride]

Originally Posted by tsdexter

I think that is potentially it. The right side fork had a bit of greasy stuff on the metal part whereas the left didn't...I'll get a pic a bit later to see what I mean... And that's where it's often worse, right at the bottom of the front fairing, in the front, where the two side fairings attach together with a rivet, and then all along the bottom underneath there like in the pic and on the inside of the fair right where there is a hole between the two just behind the front wheel..

How would I go about diagnosing and fixing such a leak?

It could be a torn fork seal, or as simple as having a little debris in the fork seal causing a leak. I took mine to the shop and it cost me about $160 to have them replace my fork seals (off the bike). After they were replaced, they started leaking again within a week. I found that this seal mate thing (clicky clicky) worked wonders, I just had some debris in my fork seal and this thing could have / will save me $100's in the future. theres a how to vid on their site to show you how simple it is to use.

[Bob2010]

Don't get brake cleaner on plastics. It will leave a nasty white haze

[tsdexter]

Originally Posted by Bob2010

Don't get brake cleaner on plastics. It will leave a nasty white haze

Thanks. Plastics as in fairings? or are there any plastic parts on the underside of the motor I should worry about? It looks like all metal and rubber to me.. All the fairings are taken off currently.

[tsdexter]

Originally Posted by Live2ride

It could be a torn fork seal, or as simple as having a little debris in the fork seal causing a leak. I took mine to the shop and it cost me about $160 to have them replace my fork seals (off the bike). After they were replaced, they started leaking again within a week. I found that this seal mate thing (clicky clicky) worked wonders, I just had some debris in my fork seal and this thing could have / will save me $100's in the future. theres a how to vid on their site to show you how simple it is to use.

I think you may be right.. Check out the vids. The right fork definitely looks like it has fluid all down it and the crap on the underside and fairings is like a metally powder (brake dust?) mixed with fluid.. Is that what yours was like? ... Thanks for the links..

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[tsdexter]

Originally Posted by Live2ride

I found that this seal mate thing (clicky clicky) worked wonders, I just had some debris in my fork seal and this thing could have / will save me $100's in the future.

Thanks! Ordered a kawi green one. Here's hoping it doesn't actually take 2 weeks to deliver.

[Live2ride]

Originally Posted by tsdexter

I think you may be right.. Check out the vids. The right fork definitely looks like it has fluid all down it and the crap on the underside and fairings is like a metally powder (brake dust?) mixed with fluid.. Is that what yours was like? ... Thanks for the links..

Originally Posted by tsdexter

Thanks! Ordered a kawi green one. Here's hoping it doesn't actually take 2 weeks to deliver.

That's exactly what mine looked like. My order came very quickly but considering you are in Canada it might take a few extra days. Luckily fork seal leaks are common and as long as you keep them clean, I'd say it's relatively safe to ride. Hopefully it's just debris in the seal and not a tear. Glad I could help.

[tsdexter]

Originally Posted by Live2ride

That's exactly what mine looked like. My order came very quickly but considering you are in Canada it might take a few extra days. Luckily fork seal leaks are common and as long as you keep them clean, I'd say it's relatively safe to ride. Hopefully it's just debris in the seal and not a tear. Glad I could help.

Yeah, I've noticed this debris pretty much since day one last year... Thought it was just **** flinging up from the road. No driving issues.

Any way to tell if its a tear? Or just use the seal mate, pump the shocks a few times and if oil is still coming out, it's probably a tear?

Also, how did you use the seal mate? These shocks looks much different than the video... Are they upside down from the ones in the video, so I'd use the tool upside down compared to video? And pull the dust seal up instead of pushing down? Haven't looked to closely yet..

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by tsdexter

Thanks! Ordered a kawi green one. Here's hoping it doesn't actually take 2 weeks to deliver.

You can take a 1gal milk jug and cut your own out of the flat section. All you need is the shape of the little hook tip made out of thin plastic. It's worth trying while your waiting then when the real thing shows up give it another go just for the hell of it.

[DaBlue1]

All of that oil leaking is not just from the forks. There's no way for all that oil to leak from a fork on the right to wind up under the sprocket cover and engine on the left. Some of it (the thickest black goo) may be excessive lube being flung off the chain and leaking down as well.

In the video you where more concerned with the oil at the bottom of the fork tube. What I briefly saw at the top was more concerning. Was the brown stuff dirt, rust, or sticky oil? What is the condition of the inner fork pipe? (clean, smooth, pitted, rusted, scratched) If you clean the forks good, then pump them a few time afterwards you'll be able to tell if the fork seal is bad.

Also the wheel seal (around the axle)on the right front looks like it needs replacing.

Brake dust usually is not that clumpy, but sand and metal shavings are.

So that you don't damage your plastic fairings, use some very hot water and Dawn to help remove the oily grime. I use some in a spray bottle to reach tight areas.

Just because your oil level is still within spec, does not mean you do not have a tiny leak. A tiny bit of oil spreads a long way. If i were you i'd thoroughly clean the bike, then try to locate any potential sources of leaks. One area in particular, the stator cover.

[Live2ride]

Originally Posted by tsdexter

Yeah, I've noticed this debris pretty much since day one last year... Thought it was just **** flinging up from the road. No driving issues.

Any way to tell if its a tear? Or just use the seal mate, pump the shocks a few times and if oil is still coming out, it's probably a tear?

Also, how did you use the seal mate? These shocks looks much different than the video... Are they upside down from the ones in the video, so I'd use the tool upside down compared to video? And pull the dust seal up instead of pushing down? Haven't looked to closely yet..

Yup, pretty much use the seal mate and pump it to see. You will be able to see a small grain of dirt or sand on the seal mate as you pull it out of the forks, that's all it takes to cause a leak. Yes, you will use the seal mate the same way you described.

As others have said, that may not be your only problem and you should definitely look into finding any other problems that might exist as well. As far as the sludge, you have to consider that its not only brake dust and oil, but everything your tire is kicking up from the road which just sticks to it. If you have done wheelies and such the fork seal could be done for and need replacement anyway. Your seal seems to be leaking a lot but hopefully its just alot of debris.

[cookiebug79]

Originally Posted by tsdexter

Thanks. Plastics as in fairings? or are there any plastic parts on the underside of the motor I should worry about? It looks like all metal and rubber to me.. All the fairings are taken off currently.

Yeah. Break cleaner is bad for all plastic, rubber, electronics, and most paint. Use Simple Green to clean off the oil. It emulcifies the substances and breaks it down in a way that is safe for plastic and rubber. I would NOT spray brake cleaner on any park of my bike except the brakes!

[tsdexter]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

You can take a 1gal milk jug and cut your own out of the flat section. All you need is the shape of the little hook tip made out of thin plastic. It's worth trying while your waiting then when the real thing shows up give it another go just for the hell of it.

Ah, you see, we get our milk in a bag up north...in any case, will the sharper edge of the cut plastic risk tearing the seal?

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

All of that oil leaking is not just from the forks. There's no way for all that oil to leak from a fork on the right to wind up under the sprocket cover and engine on the left. Some of it (the thickest black goo) may be excessive lube being flung off the chain and leaking down as well.

Yes, pretty much all the goo under the sprocket is definitely from the chain...being under there I could tell which stuff potentially flung from the front and which was chain lube (and hopefully none is engine oil - we'll see soon)

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

In the video you where more concerned with the oil at the bottom of the fork tube. What I briefly saw at the top was more concerning. Was the brown stuff dirt, rust, or sticky oil? What is the condition of the inner fork pipe? (clean, smooth, pitted, rusted, scratched) If you clean the forks good, then pump them a few time afterwards you'll be able to tell if the fork seal is bad.

Thanks for the tips...the stuff at the bottom seems to come from the top and drips down to the wheel/axel area (you can follow the 'wet' area all the way down it doesn't seem to be a separate leak towards the bottom).

The inner fork pipe is super smooth and shiny on the area that goes into the lower tube, just above that looks like it has tiny little rust spots. How bad is this? I'll pump the forks and see how much comes out tonight.

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

Also the wheel seal (around the axle)on the right front looks like it needs replacing.

Big job?

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

Brake dust usually is not that clumpy, but sand and metal shavings are.

I was riding towards the end of winter (we use sand on the roads here) so there is lots of sand and other grit mixed into it as well.

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

So that you don't damage your plastic fairings, use some very hot water and Dawn to help remove the oily grime. I use some in a spray bottle to reach tight areas.

Just because your oil level is still within spec, does not mean you do not have a tiny leak. A tiny bit of oil spreads a long way. If i were you i'd thoroughly clean the bike, then try to locate any potential sources of leaks. One area in particular, the stator cover.

Thanks for the tips - I cleaned it all up nice and dry last night, I'll take a look tonight and see if anything has come out, I'll run it tomorrow and check as well.

Originally Posted by Live2ride

As others have said, that may not be your only problem and you should definitely look into finding any other problems that might exist as well. As far as the sludge, you have to consider that its not only brake dust and oil, but everything your tire is kicking up from the road which just sticks to it. If you have done wheelies and such the fork seal could be done for and need replacement anyway. Your seal seems to be leaking a lot but hopefully its just alot of debris.

These bikes can do wheelies? Haha.. I'm too noob to try that still. The sludge will definitely have a good mix of sand from end of winter in it, but I am going over everything I know of and you guys are suggesting while I have it torn apart.

Originally Posted by cookiebug79

Yeah. Break cleaner is bad for all plastic, rubber, electronics, and most paint. Use Simple Green to clean off the oil. It emulcifies the substances and breaks it down in a way that is safe for plastic and rubber. I would NOT spray brake cleaner on any park of my bike except the brakes!

Thanks for the suggestion...also, while I have it all taken apart can I spray in there with a hose (using my finger inserted for high pressure) to really clean everything out?

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

....Also the wheel seal (around the axle)on the right front looks like it needs replacing.

Originally Posted by tsdexter

....Big job?

Nope. Super easy.

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by tsdexter

....The inner fork pipe is super smooth and shiny on the area that goes into the lower tube, just above that looks like it has tiny little rust spots. How bad is this?

Hard dirt, grime and rust can sometimes be a cause for the fork seal to leak. I'd clean and inspect the whole fork just in cause when you replace the seal.

[tsdexter]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

Hard dirt, grime and rust can sometimes be a cause for the fork seal to leak. I'd clean and inspect the whole fork just in cause when you replace the seal.

OK, sounds good.

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by cookiebug79

Yeah. Break cleaner is bad for all plastic, rubber, electronics, and most paint. Use Simple Green to clean off the oil. It emulcifies the substances and breaks it down in a way that is safe for plastic and rubber. I would NOT spray brake cleaner on any park of my bike except the brakes!

I agree with Jen, I would and have used simple green to clean a lot of things safely. Brake cleaner cleans so well that if used on unpainted or scratched iron surfaces and allowed to evaporate, the exposed metal will rust very quickly. It also leaves a residue on plastic. You have to be careful where you use it and wipe it off. Simple green seems to work everywhere without the need to be as careful.

After you clean up your bike, you can use talcome powder (climbing chalk) to help you trace leaks. Most of the time, they travel down and back, so the source is usually up or forward.