2009 front countershaft seal

UnoriginalGMan · December 24th, 2019, 05:44 PM

Hello all, I apologise if this has been posted but I can't seem to find it.

My bike has been POURING oil from behind the front sprocket, I'm pretty sure the seal is busted. It started off as a steady leak but when I fired it up and cranked the throttle a couple times it flowed out. It was stolen and sitting abandoned for about six months, I finally got it back up and running today but this oil issue is driving me crazy.

Can anybody point me in the direction of a replacement seal?

UnoriginalGMan · December 29th, 2019, 05:34 PM

Nevermind I'm a dunce.

The engine was flooded, and the breather tube on top of the crank case was disconnected (most likely my fault). I'm guessing the breather being disconnected is why oil was pouring out.

I went to drain the oil today and it was about 98% gasoline. Could that be because my engine was flooded and the breather was off? I replaced the oil, can't change the filter because the bolt is completely stripped.

It's pretty cold out today but I was able to start it with a few cranks and a wide open choke. Nothing leaked out but it puttered out and died after 10 seconds. I could start it again with no problem but it would just die again. I'm going to let it sit overnight and check for leaks in the morning, then check the oil for gasoline.

DannoXYZ · December 29th, 2019, 08:35 PM

Only way excess petrol can find its way into crankcase with bike off is if petcock does not turn off flow when engine is off. Simple to test: run bike or crank for couple seconds. Disconnect fuel-hose from petcock and see if it continues to flow...

And 2nd part of this is float-valves in carbs not sealing and letting float bowls fill up and dribble petrol down throat of carbs into engine.

Exact same thing happened to my 2009 street 250 when I first got it. And how I got my 2nd VF500F for free!

UnoriginalGMan · December 29th, 2019, 08:43 PM

Thanks for your response!

I'll check the petcock first thing in the AM. Is it possible for gasoline to get in the oil with the engine running? I cleaned the carbs and everything looked like it was behaving properly, how can I check that the carbs are sealing?

DannoXYZ · December 31st, 2019, 11:07 PM

Not possible for gas to get past rings when engine's running for several reasons:

- With combustion, rings are forced against cylinder walls for sealing. Very little will get by.
- Petrol must be vapourised to burn, if you have combustion, you have air-fuel vapour, not liquid.
- IF you actually had so much petrol that it's liquid in cylinders, you will not have combustion.

Amounts of petrol getting past rings can be seen:

1. pull off petcock hose and see how much is dripping when engine's off

2. do wet-test of float-level. You'll see it's higher than proper spec. It's catch-22, leaky float-vaves lets fuel-level get higher than stock. Higher fuel-level makes it tougher for float-valves to seal due to higher pressure.

3. remove air-box and manually raise slides to peek down carb-throats when bike is stationary. You'll see same volume of fuel that's dripping out of petcock, dribble down throat of carbs.

It's combination of two issues that's causing petrol in crankcase. If either petcock sealing and stops flow when off, OR float-valves stopping fuel from filling up carbs will prevent your issue. Unfortunately, they are both conspiring against you.

SibSerge · January 1st, 2020, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnoriginalGMan

Nevermind I'm a dunce.

The engine was flooded, and the breather tube on top of the crank case was disconnected (most likely my fault). I'm guessing the breather being disconnected is why oil was pouring out.

I went to drain the oil today and it was about 98% gasoline. Could that be because my engine was flooded and the breather was off? I replaced the oil, can't change the filter because the bolt is completely stripped.

It's pretty cold out today but I was able to start it with a few cranks and a wide open choke. Nothing leaked out but it puttered out and died after 10 seconds. I could start it again with no problem but it would just die again. I'm going to let it sit overnight and check for leaks in the morning, then check the oil for gasoline.

Breather tube does nothing but feed oil vapour and exhaust gases made past the orings into the air box where it either settles down or mixed with air fed into the carbs and then burned by the engine. If it was off it can be a reason for rainwater to get into crankcase but not the gasoline. Like Danno pointed out the priblem lies most likely in petcock and carbs letting the gas through.

DannoXYZ · January 1st, 2020, 12:07 PM

Don't run bike until you've changed oil & filter.
Use large channel-lok pliers or vise-grips to remove bolt.
If not too badly rounded, you can file flats to repair and go down to next size smaller.
Never ever use 12-sided sockets on anything. Only 6-sided for max grip.

UnoriginalGMan · January 1st, 2020, 01:29 PM

The petcock is working as it should. But fuel DID come out of the carb after I disconnected the hose. I took the carb back out, one float is working. I stripped the screws on the other so I guess I'll need to file those into flatheads. Hopefully that'll fix that problem then it's on to the filter bolt!

December 24th, 2019, 05:44 PM	#1
UnoriginalGMan ninjette.org newbie Name: Paul Location: Ft Worth Join Date: Apr 2017 Motorcycle(s): 09 250r Posts: 4	2009 front countershaft seal Hello all, I apologise if this has been posted but I can't seem to find it. My bike has been POURING oil from behind the front sprocket, I'm pretty sure the seal is busted. It started off as a steady leak but when I fired it up and cranked the throttle a couple times it flowed out. It was stolen and sitting abandoned for about six months, I finally got it back up and running today but this oil issue is driving me crazy. Can anybody point me in the direction of a replacement seal?

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December 29th, 2019, 05:34 PM	#2
UnoriginalGMan ninjette.org newbie Name: Paul Location: Ft Worth Join Date: Apr 2017 Motorcycle(s): 09 250r Posts: 4	Nevermind I'm a dunce. The engine was flooded, and the breather tube on top of the crank case was disconnected (most likely my fault). I'm guessing the breather being disconnected is why oil was pouring out. I went to drain the oil today and it was about 98% gasoline. Could that be because my engine was flooded and the breather was off? I replaced the oil, can't change the filter because the bolt is completely stripped. It's pretty cold out today but I was able to start it with a few cranks and a wide open choke. Nothing leaked out but it puttered out and died after 10 seconds. I could start it again with no problem but it would just die again. I'm going to let it sit overnight and check for leaks in the morning, then check the oil for gasoline.

December 29th, 2019, 08:35 PM	#3
DannoXYZ ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: AKA JacRyann Location: Mesa, AZ Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C Posts: A lot. MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17	Only way excess petrol can find its way into crankcase with bike off is if petcock does not turn off flow when engine is off. Simple to test: run bike or crank for couple seconds. Disconnect fuel-hose from petcock and see if it continues to flow... And 2nd part of this is float-valves in carbs not sealing and letting float bowls fill up and dribble petrol down throat of carbs into engine. Exact same thing happened to my 2009 street 250 when I first got it. And how I got my 2nd VF500F for free!

December 29th, 2019, 08:43 PM	#4
UnoriginalGMan ninjette.org newbie Name: Paul Location: Ft Worth Join Date: Apr 2017 Motorcycle(s): 09 250r Posts: 4	Thanks for your response! I'll check the petcock first thing in the AM. Is it possible for gasoline to get in the oil with the engine running? I cleaned the carbs and everything looked like it was behaving properly, how can I check that the carbs are sealing?

December 31st, 2019, 11:07 PM	#5
DannoXYZ ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: AKA JacRyann Location: Mesa, AZ Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C Posts: A lot. MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17	Not possible for gas to get past rings when engine's running for several reasons: - With combustion, rings are forced against cylinder walls for sealing. Very little will get by. - Petrol must be vapourised to burn, if you have combustion, you have air-fuel vapour, not liquid. - IF you actually had so much petrol that it's liquid in cylinders, you will not have combustion. Amounts of petrol getting past rings can be seen: 1. pull off petcock hose and see how much is dripping when engine's off 2. do wet-test of float-level. You'll see it's higher than proper spec. It's catch-22, leaky float-vaves lets fuel-level get higher than stock. Higher fuel-level makes it tougher for float-valves to seal due to higher pressure. 3. remove air-box and manually raise slides to peek down carb-throats when bike is stationary. You'll see same volume of fuel that's dripping out of petcock, dribble down throat of carbs. It's combination of two issues that's causing petrol in crankcase. If either petcock sealing and stops flow when off, OR float-valves stopping fuel from filling up carbs will prevent your issue. Unfortunately, they are both conspiring against you.

January 1st, 2020, 12:07 PM	#7
DannoXYZ ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: AKA JacRyann Location: Mesa, AZ Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C Posts: A lot. MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17	Don't run bike until you've changed oil & filter. Use large channel-lok pliers or vise-grips to remove bolt. If not too badly rounded, you can file flats to repair and go down to next size smaller. Never ever use 12-sided sockets on anything. Only 6-sided for max grip.

January 1st, 2020, 01:29 PM	#8
UnoriginalGMan ninjette.org newbie Name: Paul Location: Ft Worth Join Date: Apr 2017 Motorcycle(s): 09 250r Posts: 4	The petcock is working as it should. But fuel DID come out of the carb after I disconnected the hose. I took the carb back out, one float is working. I stripped the screws on the other so I guess I'll need to file those into flatheads. Hopefully that'll fix that problem then it's on to the filter bolt!