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Old October 23rd, 2021, 10:47 AM   #1
culprit
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Unhappy 2009 Ninja 250r NO SPARK

Hey guys. My 2009 Ninja 250r is suffering a chronic case of no spark. I have no prior knowledge of working on bikes, basically starting from scratch. I do do all my own work on my cars and modify them, so I figured I could handle a simple bike. Or so I thought lmao.

Picked the bike up and the owner told me it would start with starter fluid bc the carb was clogged, but the battery was dead so he couldn't show me. My mistake.

Got her home and first I changed the battery because it was dead dead. No recharging that sucker. It would turn over just fine now, but not catch at all. No signs of any kind of ignition. Couldn't smell any exhaust. Then, checked the gas tank, fuel lines, petcock, carb, etc, no dice. Gas tank was gross so I pulled it, drained and cleaned it out with good gas. Seemed to be working just fine.

Pulled a spark plug and it was nasty, so I swapped out both. Still no spark. At this point I'm just checking spark via holding it against a ground. (Already checked that the ground on the frame would indeed ground with my ohm meter, read 12 volts) I bypassed all my safety switches, still no spark. In neutral with the kick-stand down too even though those are by-passed. Time to check the coils. Primary resistance is within spec at 2.5 ohms. Secondary resistance on the other hand… I’m reading 18,200 on one and 18,400 on the other. Specs from the book are 10-16,000 ohms. Are both my coils bad? Would 2-2500 ohms be enough to not be getting a spark?

I’m going to go ahead and post this to see if I get an answer while I test my crankcase position sensor. If it’s not one of those two I’m guessing its the CDI. Is there a way to test the CDI or is it just elimination at that point, e.g. if coils and position sensor are good it would have to be the CDI right? I guess it could be the stator but that seems like a TON of work to swap out.

Thank you so much!
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Old October 23rd, 2021, 11:14 AM   #2
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Welcome to the board Colin!

I doubt if both of your coils are bad. Is the ignition switch original?

These bikes use TCI, not CDI, so you can measure the voltage on the coil primaries to see if they're getting power as a first test.
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Old October 23rd, 2021, 11:14 AM   #3
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Update:

Tested the crank sensor. Used the top, two prong wire. To my understanding, that is the crank sensor itself. The large, three prong connection is from the stator. Resistance was 1130 ohms which is WAY above the couple hundred that it's supposed to be. When I did the crank AC volt test it averaged around 55-57 volts. Which doesn't make sense to me... if the resistance is way too high wouldn't it not be getting any voltage? Maybe I'm reading or doing it wrong. Please educate me!

Here is the wire I was testing.
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Old October 23rd, 2021, 11:16 AM   #4
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He said he switched out the ignition switch. I can't remember why exactly. Could that be causing something like this?
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Old October 23rd, 2021, 11:42 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by culprit View Post
He said he switched out the ignition switch. I can't remember why exactly. Could that be causing something like this?
Yes, if it's an aftermarket switch it's missing the 100 ohm resistor that's required for the ignition module to come alive. It needs to be in the grey wire. This diagram shows it, although you might need a magnifier to see it. You can splice it anywhere in the grey wire.
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Old October 23rd, 2021, 11:50 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
Yes, if it's an aftermarket switch it's missing the 100 ohm resistor that's required for the ignition module to come alive. It needs to be in the grey wire. This diagram shows it, although you might need a magnifier to see it. You can splice it anywhere in the grey wire.
Oh my gosh that would be amazing. I cant see a resistor just looking at it, would I need to take the ignition switch off to be able to see it or would it just be right there somewhere on the wire? I see the gray wire you're talking about! Where can I find a 100 ohm resistor? You just instilled new hope in me sir.
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Old October 23rd, 2021, 12:47 PM   #7
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I think the original setup hides the resistor in the connector, but anywhere in the grey wire is fine.

I'm sure if you do a search you can find 187 suppliers and take your pick. Here's one source, and you can help 79 other people after you fix your Ninja:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/324083572997
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Old October 23rd, 2021, 08:32 PM   #8
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You should find more info about adding a resistor to an aftermarket ignition switch here with a search.

I thought DannoXYZ did a write-up on it at one point.

Most likely, that is the issue.
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Old October 24th, 2021, 12:12 PM   #9
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Hi Collin, welcome to Ninjette!!!

Here's how factory ignition switch is wired. Colours on yours may be different, but as long as connections are same, it should work fine.



As for 100-ohm security resistor, you can test for it by measuring resistance between grey & brown terminals on ignition-switch connector. If not, you can add it easily. I did write up here. Most people have trouble adding it to ignition switch, so I recommend chopping grey wire near ECU and putting resistor in-line.

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=366599

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Old October 25th, 2021, 07:46 PM   #10
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I wired in a 100 ohm resistor and we have spark!! I hooked everything back up and put the gas tank back on and after some turning over she'll start and barely grumble along if i have throttle down and am spraying starter fluid in. clogged up carb i would assume? I thought ahead slightly and went ahead and put a can of seafoam in the gas tank along with just a little bit of gas, so since it started it does have that nice concentrated seafoam just sitting in there. Do yall think that will do the trick or do I need to pull my carb and give it a clean?

I know there's plenty of youtube videos on cleaning carbs, but anything I need to watch for specifically on this bike while doing it?

I cannot thank you guys enough. I was beyond frustrated with this project and am now absolutely overjoyed!
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Old October 25th, 2021, 08:05 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by culprit View Post
I thought ahead slightly and went ahead and put a can of seafoam in the gas tank along with just a little bit of gas, so since it started it does have that nice concentrated seafoam just sitting in there. Do yall think that will do the trick or do I need to pull my carb and give it a clean? !
It's great that you have spark! Now...

Seafoam is just barely above completely useless, and these carbs take a lot of diligence to get clean. An additive that has PEA likeTechron can help with slightly clogged carbs, but if it won't idle, it's time for a complete disassembly and cleaning/restoration.

Starter fluid can damage the very expensive diaphragms, and is not something that should be used in these CV carbs.

I always do all my own carb work, but in this case I had Ducatiman restore mine to new condition.
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Old October 25th, 2021, 08:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
It's great that you have spark! Now...

Seafoam is just barely above completely useless, and these carbs take a lot of diligence to get clean. An additive that has PEA likeTechron can help with slightly clogged carbs, but if it won't idle, it's time for a complete disassembly and cleaning/restoration.

Starter fluid can damage the very expensive diaphragms, and is not something that should be used in these CV carbs.

I always do all my own carb work, but in this case I had Ducatiman restore mine to new condition.
Did not know that about the starter fluid. Hopefully they're OK. :0

Would it be worth ordering something like this before I go to clean the carb?
https://www.amazon.com/All-Balls-Car...50F+Ninja+250R

That way I can just swap out everything? I'm planning on grabbing carb and choke cleaner and a bucket of the carb cleaner. A couple sites I've seen are recommending new float valve gaskets. Is that wise to go ahead and get that kind of stuff?
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Old October 25th, 2021, 08:17 PM   #13
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Don't use any jets from any carb kit. Use only genuine replacements if you absolutely have to replace any, which is doubtful.
@ducatiman can probably provide some information about what materials you need to buy if you're going to restore them yourself.

Also, there are small, hard to find passages that need to be cleaned with physical methods, so soaking and blasting with air probably won't do the job.
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Old October 26th, 2021, 05:16 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
Don't use any jets from any carb kit. Use only genuine replacements if you absolutely have to replace any, which is doubtful.
@ducatiman can probably provide some information about what materials you need to buy if you're going to restore them yourself.

Also, there are small, hard to find passages that need to be cleaned with physical methods, so soaking and blasting with air probably won't do the job.
So no jets replaced should be needed as long as I clean them well. Thats good to know.

From what I saw, you can clean a lot of those passages with a wire taken from a wire brush? Or do I need to find some specific tiny pipe cleaner type thing?
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Old October 26th, 2021, 03:43 PM   #15
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Alrighty, so. Just wanted to go through and double check things as I pull my carb.

1. Is the petcock supposed to allow fuel to freely flow when set to on? From what I've read it's not supposed to. The gas cap was off the bike when I bought it, and I put it on but I think the seal is bad as it's a fairly loose fit and definitely not airtight. Not sure if that would cause running issues or not?
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Old October 26th, 2021, 03:43 PM   #16
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Alrighty, so. Just wanted to go through and double check things as I pull my carb.

1. Is the petcock supposed to allow fuel to freely flow when set to on? From what I've read it's not supposed to. The gas cap was off the bike when I bought it, and I put it on but I think the seal is bad as it's a fairly loose fit and definitely not airtight. Not sure if that would cause running issues or not?
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Old October 26th, 2021, 04:03 PM   #17
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2. I just pulled my air filter and it is very oily. Would that be causing issues?
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Old October 26th, 2021, 04:12 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by culprit View Post
1. Is the petcock supposed to allow fuel to freely flow when set to on? From what I've read it's not supposed to. The gas cap was off the bike when I bought it, and I put it on but I think the seal is bad as it's a fairly loose fit and definitely not airtight. Not sure if that would cause running issues or not?
The petcock should require vacuum to open and flow fuel when in the "on" position. Its operation is described in the Wiki: https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Ninja250_Howto

A non-sealing tank cap will not cause running problems.
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Old October 28th, 2021, 06:01 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
The petcock should require vacuum to open and flow fuel when in the "on" position. Its operation is described in the Wiki: https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Ninja250_Howto

A non-sealing tank cap will not cause running problems.
Well my petcock is definitely not working as it should, if I pull the vacuum hose and then pull the fuel hose it will drain the whole tank. So I guess I'm gonna order a petcock and put it in. If that still doesn't get it running then I'll clean the carb.
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Old October 28th, 2021, 06:23 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by culprit View Post
Well my petcock is definitely not working as it should, if I pull the vacuum hose and then pull the fuel hose it will drain the whole tank. So I guess I'm gonna order a petcock and put it in. If that still doesn't get it running then I'll clean the carb.
under the given conditions, I'd suggest a check of oil for presence of fuel, taking appropriate action if needed.
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Old October 28th, 2021, 06:39 AM   #21
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under the given conditions, I'd suggest a check of oil for presence of fuel, taking appropriate action if needed.
What do you mean by checking for fuel? Shiuldn't there be no fuel in the oil? Or if the fuel was just freeflowing is there a possibility it overfilled my carbs and somehow made it into my oil? I Did a quick google search and didn't really turn up anything towards identifying fuel in oil, etc. I may be able to see it and I'm just asking stupid questions but I'm trying to be as informed as possible., i may just go ahead and do an oil change as who knows the lst time it was done.

Second would be it will catch with turning it over and i canhear it igniting, it just wont stay running. It really catches best when I rev the accelerator, which makes me think the carb is clogged. Is that a logical assumption to make?
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Old October 28th, 2021, 06:52 AM   #22
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2 conditions need to occur to allow fuel invasion into oil.....1) free flowing petcock coupled with 2) 1 or 2 non-sealing float valves.

If presence of fuel in oil, obviously a carb clean (with special attention to float system) followed by oil/filter change PRIOR TO any running/starting attempts.

Within my service, I do automatic float valve renewal in every case, followed by "wet test" to assure success of float valve seal (along with checking/tweaking fuel levels)

Major damage can occur with presence of fuel in oil, duh.
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Old October 28th, 2021, 07:59 AM   #23
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drain oil and smell it. Most likely petcock has been draining petrol through carbs into crankcase. Carbs needs full disassembly and restoration from what you're describing. Trying to start it in this condition will likely destroy engine. Do search for "clean carbs ducatiman" for photos and procedures of what's involved.
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Old October 28th, 2021, 08:10 AM   #24
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You can remove the oil filler cap, stick something in the oil, get some on your fingers and smell it. Also if a significant amount of fuel got into the oil, you'll see that the level is higher than expected.
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Old October 31st, 2021, 03:34 PM   #25
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So I drained the oil today and man, its bad. So much gas in it. Its bad. so I'm guessing a full carb clean and i'll finish the oil change with good oil and a new filter. Do I need to replace the petcock since it's free flowing or id that not a problem?
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Old October 31st, 2021, 04:11 PM   #26
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Carb clean with special attention to float system. They must fully seal. You have carb consumables (orings) on hand? Including new float valves?

Petcock must be replaced or rebuilt, either way must only flow when vacuum is applied (as in when engine is running)

Note I do this stuff frequently and have all parts necessary to renew both. Let me know if you'd be interested.
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Old October 31st, 2021, 04:40 PM   #27
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Test all positions of petcock:

PRI - flows all the time full-time
ON - flows only when vaccum applied (don't get these two settings mixed up)
OFF - no flow

There are rebuild kits for petcock with new seals. Ducatiman can also rebuild petcock along with carbs.

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Old October 31st, 2021, 04:44 PM   #28
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1. Is the petcock supposed to allow fuel to freely flow when set to on? From what I've read it's not supposed to.

posted earlier in thread by @culprit
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Old October 31st, 2021, 04:54 PM   #29
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Sounds like petcock is bad. Rebuildable? Perhaps
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Old October 31st, 2021, 05:11 PM   #30
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1. Is the petcock supposed to allow fuel to freely flow when set to on?

No, "on" should require vacuum for fuel flow. Newgens have "prime", which allows fuel to flow without vacuum.
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