Valve Adjustment to Come Soon!

[gilmorec61]

So, as everyone already knows, valve adjustment is pretty important on these bikes of ours as i learned this last weekend from a new friend

Anyways, i WANT to do it myself, but i dont want to accidentally mess anything up. I also DONT want to pay a dealer, number one their not trustworthy, number too, so pricey! I'd like to say i am somewhat mechanically inclined, and ive got a friend whos dad is a mechanic that lives down the street and is happy to help me out.

Ive got around 9,300 miles on the bike now, and i am quite positive the previous owner didnt do the valves when i bought it with 7,200 miles on it.

So ive got a few questions/needs/requests for you guys.

Number one,
Does anyone have a PDF version of the newgen manual? Or maybe at least the section that contains the valves in it? Yeah there are alot of DIY's that show how to do it, but a manual will provide me with some comfort

Number two,
What are all the materials i will need? Shim wise that is. How many do i get, and where is a cheap place i might be able to obtain them from? And are there any special tools i need? Ive got quite an assortment, and im sure my friends dad does as well, but is there any tool used thats an oddball tool that i may need to purchase?

Number three,
Do you guys think i will be able to do it? I dont want to mess anything up and i want to get it done in a weekend as this is my daily driver. And any suggestions would be appreciated

Thanks alot yall

[etiainen]

Allocate a lot of time for this. It takes a while the first time.

A magnet pickup tool can help if you drop something in by mistake.

Watch the DIY video here so you can wrap your mind around what is happening. Understanding what you are actually doing helps a lot. Get a torque wrench and my dealer actually traded shims with me. You'll need a micrometer to measure shims.

Good luck I wish I could've downloaded my current knowledge into my past brain before starting. I would've saved myself a huge PITA.

EDIT: Don't rush. It is possible you won't finish in a weekend.

[indr]

This shim kit has varying sizes: http://www.powersportparts.net/Hot-C.../tr56-0896.htm

You'll need feeler gauges and calipers to measure the old shims.

If you end up having to take off the radiator to get to the head cover, you'll need new coolant.

[CZroe]

I just posted what I think is a more affordable and useful selection of shims in the DIY video thread. Also, there are a few places where you aren't likely to get a normal torque wrench, so I suggest getting one of the micro-sized ones.

One of the things I never saw mentioned but think may be important is a mini-vac that can suck all the little pebbles and such off the valve cover before you lift it and dump them everywhere.

I now firmly believe that you need a properly-shaped plate thing to hold the push rod fully retracted in the CCT, as the service manual describes. The manual specifically said not to do it the way Casey and I did in the DIY video and I developed a bad rattle sound shortly after that which went away when I reset the CCT according to the service manual.

I did read that it was possible to do without removing the radiator and flushing the coolant and I know that the dealer who supposedly checked my valves the first time did not flush my coolant. I'll see if I can find who said that and how they believed it could be done.

You will probably need some rubber wellnuts to replace the OEM ones that will almost certainly be rotten. I know you mentioned not having the user manual either (different from the service manual), which makes me wonder if you are missing the OEM toolkit too. If you don't have the OEM toolkit and you plan to change the spark plugs then you'll need a spark plug wrench. You can borrow mine if you like. They say that it works MUCH better than the general tool because it articulates to fit under the tank, but you'll be removing the tank to do a valve job anyway.

[alex.s]

its easy. feeler gauges, calipers, and shims (and obviously your standard toolbox) is all you need.

dump the fluids, remove the CCT, get to and take the valve cover off, take the stator cover off, measure each valve with the feeler gauges with that cam pointed away from the bucket by rotating the crank with the bolt on the stator wheel.

if you need to change shims, remove the cam cage, pull out the bucket, replace the shim (shim kit or go to the local shop and trade shims) just make sure you either mark where the chain and cams are connected, or simply dont remove the cams from the chain and instead remove one cam at a time (leaving it on the chain) and just move them to the side a little bit so you can remove the buckets

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by alex.s

its easy. feeler gauges, calipers, and shims (and obviously your standard toolbox) is all you need.

dump the fluids, remove the CCT, get to and take the valve cover off, take the stator cover off, measure each valve with the feeler gauges with that cam pointed away from the bucket by rotating the crank with the bolt on the stator wheel.

if you need to change shims, remove the cam cage, pull out the bucket, replace the shim (shim kit or go to the local shop and trade shims) just make sure you either mark where the chain and cams are connected, or simply dont remove the cams from the chain and instead remove one cam at a time (leaving it on the chain) and just move them to the side a little bit so you can remove the buckets

I wouldn't downplay the complexity because you risk tempting someone to begin while ill-prepared. You need a lot more than "feeler gauges, calipers, and shims." You kinda contradict that when you say to "dumping the fluids" because you obviously need replacement fluids. Off the top of my head, your list is missing coolant, engine oil, oil filter, drain plug crush washer, O-rings for the filter, replacement gasket, high-temp liquid gasket for the valve cover and shims, CCT reset holder plate, small and large torque wrenches, etc. Also, spark plugs, while not part of the valve adjustment, are part of the same service interval, so we should add them and a removal tool to the list of stuff needed (no sense going in there again for that alone). If the assuredly-rotted OEM wellnuts haven't been replaced, I can almost guarantee that they'll need to be replaced as well. The list is growing!

When I find my service manual, I'll pour through it and list everything they mention needing in addition to what I expect will be needed.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by CZroe

I wouldn't downplay the complexity because you risk tempting someone to begin while ill-prepared. You need a lot more than "feeler gauges, calipers, and shims." You kinda contradict that when you say to "dumping the fluids" because you obviously need replacement fluids. Off the top of my head, your list is missing coolant, engine oil, oil filter, drain plug crush washer, O-rings for the filter, replacement gasket, high-temp liquid gasket for the valve cover and shims, CCT reset holder plate, small and large torque wrenches, etc. Also, spark plugs, while not part of the valve adjustment, are part of the same service interval, so we should add them and a removal tool to the list of stuff needed (no sense going in there again for that alone). If the assuredly-rotted OEM wellnuts haven't been replaced, I can almost guarantee that they'll need to be replaced as well. The list is growing!

When I find my service manual, I'll pour through it and list everything they mention needing in addition to what I expect will be needed.

we saved the fluids we dumped when we did kevins (they were already brand new from other work we had done) and put it back in. we also used the same crush washer. spark plugs are a seperate service item so i didnt include them. if you arent changing fluids you dont need an oil filteer. or orings for the filter. you dont need gaskets unless your gasket is damaged for some reason, none of the gaskets were damaged when ive done any of the adjustments (5 now) and in my opinion using liquid gasket on a gasket that has no damage will do nothing but cause it to tear next time yoou remove it. not sure what yoou mean by "CCT reset holder plate" and i go by german torque specs. also a side note, the bike tool kit (as well as any standard tool box) should contain a spark plug socket.

[alex.s]

btw- german torque specs: goodntight

but no, really. the only torque you need to worry about really is the cage bolts. they are 15fp which is light hand tight with a small socket wrench. for 15fp i usually go about 4 inches out and push at about 70%... i might have trained myself but i can get it within a few pounds usually. torque wrenches help though, make it hard to overtighten.


btw the last valve job i did took 2 hours including stopping for half an hour to eat pizza and make fun of people on facebook.

another btw, you almost never need to replace that oil drain crush washer unless it was seriously overtightened before. if it still looks like a crush washer, chances are it will work just fine.

[alex.s]

but you are right, jet. maybe i inspire too much confidence. i assume people do their research before tearing their bike apart and dont just blindly trust a few words they read on a single forum thread. but i've been wrong in the past.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by alex.s

we saved the fluids we dumped when we did kevins and put it back in. we also used the same crush washer. spark plugs are a seperate service item so i didnt include them. if you arent changing fluids you dont need an oil filteer. or orings for the filter. you dont need gaskets unless your gasket is damaged for some reason, none of the gaskets were damaged when ive done any of the adjustments (5 now) and in my opinion using liquid gasket on a gasket that has no damage will do nothing but cause it to tear next time yoou remove it. not sure what yoou mean by "CCT reset holder plate" and i go by german torque specs. also a side note, the bike tool kit (as well as any standard tool box) should contain a spark plug socket.

Then you need two clean containers to capture fluids in because you can't use, for example, your half-full sealable oil drain pan. When transferring from engine to container to engine, there are bound to be more air and surface contaminates than new oil, so a new oil filter with O-rings and new oil just makes sense.

I know you can get away with it sometimes, but you aren't supposed to reuse crush washers because their whole purpose is to crush and deform. If they don't look like they are, they probably weren't torqued enough!

Putting new liquid gasket around the valve cover is a required step according to the service manual. You don't put it on some random gasket. You peel off the old solidified liquid gasket and apply new stuff. As for replacing a gasket, I got that confused with removing the clutch cover, which has a paper gasket that is almost impossible to save. There *IS* a paper gasket on the CCT that I believe Kawi expects you to replace, but it seems pretty hard to tear and seems fine to reuse.

As for "German torque specs," that's exactly what ruined my CCT cap bolt. It never got "goodntight" before stripping the aluminum threads right out of the CCT housing!

The "CCT reset holder plate" is whatever you want to call the thing Kawasaki expects you to create in order to keep the CCT push rod retracted while you reinstall it. Not doing that caused a NASTY rattle sound to develop in mine until I reset it properly and could have seriously ruined my engine. It's a flat plate that needs to fit inside the hole that you previously used a small flat screwdriver through to retract the push rod but it needs to have a wider flat part to fit in the slots outside of that hole so that it will hold the turnable slot inside but will not turn once inserted into the outer slots. The SM has the measurements. I'm curious: How were you reinstalling the CCT? Were you leaving it installed and tensioned because you avoided removing the cams? That may be a better option.

Originally Posted by alex.s

btw- german torque specs: goodntight

but no, really. the only torque you need to worry about really is the cage bolts. they are 15fp which is light hand tight with a small socket wrench. for 15fp i usually go about 4 inches out and push at about 70%... i might have trained myself but i can get it within a few pounds usually. torque wrenches help though, make it hard to overtighten.


btw the last valve job i did took 2 hours including stopping for half an hour to eat pizza and make fun of people on facebook.

another btw, you almost never need to replace that oil drain crush washer unless it was seriously overtightened before. if it still looks like a crush washer, chances are it will work just fine.

Remember that the engine has to be STONE COLD before you take measurements. I've heard that it needs to have been off for 8 hours, though some believe that draining the hot oil accelerates it. I'm not so sure that you can speed it up because the 8 hour recommendation assumes a full service including oil change. Is it even possible to check without draining the oil?

Originally Posted by alex.s

but you are right, jet. maybe i inspire too much confidence. i assume people do their research before tearing their bike apart and dont just blindly trust a few words they read on a single forum thread. but i've been wrong in the past.

I'm pretty sure he was asking for specifics (shims, sizes, special tools) so I would make sure he knows that you weren't seriously giving them! "Easy" just isn't the way most people would describe it. Most would call it "complex" even if they agree that it's easy.

[indr]

Another guide if you haven't already seen it: http://www.theyeagergroup.com/2008_n..._clearance.htm

~~~

I've never had the oil drained when checking/adjusting valves.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by indrish

Another guide if you haven't already seen it: http://www.theyeagergroup.com/2008_n..._clearance.htm

~~~

I've never had the oil drained when checking/adjusting valves.

I didn't want to change the oil because I had done a recent change but it was part of the SM and the guy I was working with insisted that we needed to, especially because we weren't letting it sit for 8 hours. That's good information for future DIY though.

I need to ask Mr. Yeager a question but I don't know his username here. He links to Ninjette.org, so I assume he is a member. Happen to know his username? I guess I can just send an email. It's so frustrating that Google doesn't make a simple email forwarder to register with Windows as an email client that will launch gmail when you click an email link.

[cuong-nutz]

I didn't have to drain any fluids when I did mine valve adjustment. The tricky part is removing the valve cover since the coolant pipe gets in the way. It takes some finessing to get it out. Putting it back in was whole lot faster oddly. Maybe because I somehow mastered how to take it out

I went off Vex's and Casey's DIY thread. The valve job took me a while since I had to source out shims. and I was working in 3.5'x6' space....

My spark plugs were still good when I did mine (8k miles) but I went ahead and replaced them since I was already there.

[quanttrom]

OOOK, SO glad I didn't miss this thread !

I am mid valve job and I just read about this camshaft chain tensioner push rod holder plate.

I guess I can cut/grind something into the size show in the service manual. How stiff does it have to be?

Anything special?

[kamikaze]

i pulled the motor to do mine. drained the coolant, but left the oil in (i changed it before riding it on reassembly, however)

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by quanttrom

OOOK, SO glad I didn't miss this thread !

I am mid valve job and I just read about this camshaft chain tensioner push rod holder plate.

I guess I can cut/grind something into the size show in the service manual. How stiff does it have to be?

Anything special?

When resetting mine, I used a really soft bit of metal from a dust/surgical mask but it was bending all over the place. It was too thick to fit all the way in so I squeezed the tip with a set of vice grips. It would still spin freely, so I kinked it sideways into one of the outer slots and folded the other end into the gap to hold it there. It was all pretty precarious, but it worked and got rid of the terrible rattling noise I was hearing.

[RedNinja21]

Hey Gilmorec61, I've attached the valves adjustment part from the service manual. Let me know if you need more.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by RedNinja21

Hey Gilmorec61, I've attached the valves adjustment part from the service manual. Let me know if you need more.

Thanks. I dunno if excerpts are allowed, but if the Library of Congress says that we can use clips of movies in our YouTube videos, I don't see why not.

Also needs the section referenced here:

"•Remove:
Cylinder Head Cover (see Cylinder Head Cover Removal
in the Engine Top End chapter)"

And also, if adjustment is needed, needs the sections showing this:

"remove the camshaft
chain tensioner, camshafts and valve lifters."

[RedNinja21]

CZroe, amen to that.

I do not see anything that reference "valve lifters"; however, I've attached "valve removal", hoping it's the same thing.

Anyway, this looks way too complicated for a first timer (me). Hopefully a local shop will do this for a low price.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by RedNinja21

CZroe, amen to that.

I do not see anything that reference "valve lifters"; however, I've attached "valve removal", hoping it's the same thing.

Anyway, this looks way too complicated for a first timer (me). Hopefully a local shop will do this for a low price.

Thanks. My experience has been $300+ to check, $500+ to adjust.

[quanttrom]

My experience is like CZroe's. The dealership told me $300 for inspection and +20 minutes of labor and parts for every shim they have to change.

[gt_turbo]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Thanks. My experience has been $300+ to check, $500+ to adjust.

for that much trade it in with cash on top for a new bike! if you are lazy.

[RedNinja21]

Whoa ..why don't they just take my arm and leg?

I guess I'll have to start reading up on the service manual and diy section, and pray I won't mess anything up.

[quanttrom]

Originally Posted by RedNinja21

Whoa ..why don't they just take my arm and leg?

I guess I'll have to start reading up on the service manual and diy section, and pray I won't mess anything up.

why don't you just get a mechanically inclined buddy to help you out in exchange for some beer?

[etiainen]

I paid $230 for my CBR's valve adjustment at 600 miles. I would've done it myself, but I just didn't have the time this time around.

[RedNinja21]

I would if I have a mechanically inclined buddy but none of my buddies ride. Which I'm looking forward to some group rides this summer.

I can live with $230. I should really ask around for a quote first. And if I do find a place with an acceptable price, maybe I can stick around, watch and learn. Then, I'd have more confidence of doing it myself the next time around.

[gt_turbo]

i went to a local kawi dealer and asked the dude at the service counter how much it would cost if i brought my bike in for a valve adjustment. he fumbled away on his computer for about 5 mins, then told me $222. I was like "$222? for a valve adjustment? is that just the valve check or includes the valve adjustment too?" he said "it only takes about 2 hours to do, just changing out valves so yea $222." I was thinking in my head, what? 2 hrs only? maybe if you are a pro and you got all the shims ready, maybe 2 hrs.

i'm just going to do it myself. it seems to be too good of a deal, they probably won't do it right at all imo. kinda wary of this place, every time i go in to look at gear. the sales guys seem like complete d-bags. one time i was looking at an arai rx-q helmet and the sales guy said, it's only for racers you don't need it. i told him, i was planning to hit the tracks, he said, well your not racing so you don't need that anyway. i swear they are something else, they will tell you a 600 or 1000 is a great beginner bike, but when it comes to safety - naw you don't need that, don't bother unless your a racer. LOL

[etiainen]

If you have the time, learning brings a wealth of new information that is worth more than $200-300.

[quanttrom]

annnnnddd I just wanted to chime in and say that all my valves are out of spec...

12,700km (7,890 miles) on it...

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by gt_turbo

i went to a local kawi dealer and asked the dude at the service counter how much it would cost if i brought my bike in for a valve adjustment. he fumbled away on his computer for about 5 mins, then told me $222. I was like "$222? for a valve adjustment? is that just the valve check or includes the valve adjustment too?" he said "it only takes about 2 hours to do, just changing out valves so yea $222." I was thinking in my head, what? 2 hrs only? maybe if you are a pro and you got all the shims ready, maybe 2 hrs.

i'm just going to do it myself. it seems to be too good of a deal, they probably won't do it right at all imo. kinda wary of this place, every time i go in to look at gear. the sales guys seem like complete d-bags. one time i was looking at an arai rx-q helmet and the sales guy said, it's only for racers you don't need it. i told him, i was planning to hit the tracks, he said, well your not racing so you don't need that anyway. i swear they are something else, they will tell you a 600 or 1000 is a great beginner bike, but when it comes to safety - naw you don't need that, don't bother unless your a racer. LOL

Every time I have heard a price like this I inquire further and find out that they are looking at the estimated labor for a pregen.

[etiainen]

Every time I have heard a price like this I inquire further and find out that they are looking at the estimated labor for a pregen.

My CBR has shims and they charged that much. Don't have to remove the cams though. So I don't know.

annnnnddd I just wanted to chime in and say that all my valves are out of spec...

12,700km (7,890 miles) on it...

Pretty much all of mine were too. I can't say I'm not happy about having 16k valve check intervals now

[gilmorec61]

So guys thanks for all the replys, any more tips? Havent been able to check on this forum alot, been busy lately. Anyways, im "planning" to do my valve adjustment over spring break, next week.

However, im having mixed feelings about it. If i do it it will only be me. Well as of now anyways. I have all the tools ill need, i need to purchase/borrow a few though. And i need to get shims. Im going to see if the Cylce City in Newnan has them in stock that way i wont have to buy a full shim kit.

I just need some confidence that i can get it done. I am mechanically inclined, and have pulled apart several small motors before, but nothing i really cared about. I care about my ninjette. i just dont want to mess it up. Its about to hit 10000miles, and i want to get the adjustment done SOON. Im just hoping it wont take me longer than a week, and i hope i dont screw anything up because i drive it DAILY.

Thanks for all yalls help already, and more tips/help, would be greatly appreciated

[KELPHYN]

If you are worried about time, make sure the valves are actually out of spec before tearing it all apart. There is a minimum clearance and a maximum clearance. Anywhere in between is okay. I currently have 52000kms (30000miles) and still have not had a valve adjustment and the clearances are still with-in factory specs. Maybe I'm just lucky. Generally if your not having problems starting or with loss of fuel mileage valves are fine, but piece of mind comes with at least checking them. Good luck.

[gilmorec61]

What would you say the hardest part is? Taking all the stuff off to get to it and checking valve clearance, or the actual valve adjusting itself? And wow, 30,000miles??? And no valve adjustment? wow, i hope i might be that lucky...how do you ride it?

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by KELPHYN

If you are worried about time, make sure the valves are actually out of spec before tearing it all apart. There is a minimum clearance and a maximum clearance. Anywhere in between is okay. I currently have 52000kms (30000miles) and still have not had a valve adjustment and the clearances are still with-in factory specs. Maybe I'm just lucky. Generally if your not having problems starting or with loss of fuel mileage valves are fine, but piece of mind comes with at least checking them. Good luck.

Are you sure you're checking it right? After all, most people are reporting them ALL out of spec at the first interval.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Are you sure you're checking it right? After all, most people are reporting them ALL out of spec at the first interval.

it varies. my bike is almost to 20k and only 2 shims were out of spec. ive seen other ninjas with barely 12k that have had multiples out of spec. on my fzr (40something Kmiles) that had original oem shims, only 3 of 16 shims were out of spec.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by gilmorec61

What would you say the hardest part is? Taking all the stuff off to get to it and checking valve clearance, or the actual valve adjusting itself? And wow, 30,000miles??? And no valve adjustment? wow, i hope i might be that lucky...how do you ride it?

the hardest part is taking the valve cover off. kinda gotta rotate it at a weird angle to get around that thing toward the top. especially if you dont take everything off. but even that is not difficult. its an easy job, the 2 hour estimate above is correct if you know what you are doing.

[dino74]

These two DIYs were spot on!

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9787
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9924


It me about 3 hours (I think) and was totally expecting to F things up but all smooth. One bit of advice, there is a water intake/outtake (dunno the direction) to the rear of the value cover. Before you take the cover off, spray some cleaner between the two. I didn't and it was full crud, some of which fell into the engine.

[KELPHYN]

Originally Posted by gilmorec61

What would you say the hardest part is? Taking all the stuff off to get to it and checking valve clearance, or the actual valve adjusting itself? And wow, 30,000miles??? And no valve adjustment? wow, i hope i might be that lucky...how do you ride it?

For the most part I ride it hard. My riding partners most are on 1000's and my bike has spent many hours never dropping much below 10,000rpm. Did the fast break-in on it when I bought it,with lots of oil changes the first 1000 miles (1600kms) has never used a drop of oil. Got a slip-on pipe and one shim in the needles. Have never really had any problems. Anyhoo...don't want to hi-jack threat, maybe I'm just lucky.

[gilmorec61]

Sweet guys Planning on starting digging in to her either tonight or tomorrow for sure! Kind of excited actually!

Ive got a feeler guage, and calipers. Those are the only "special tools" i should need correct? Ive got a pretty good tool box with all the standard tools, plus a few here and there...

While im doing this, im going to change the oil, probably change the coolant, maybe the plugs(although i changed them +/- 2000 miles ago), and even though this is completly irrelevent, the brake pads. Is there anything else i should change, look at, mod, etc...while im in there? Just cuz shes already apart, you know?

Oh, and a few weeks ago someone posted a thread with a link to some super cheap brake pads for the newgen. They were around $5 a set. Anybody have that link?

Thanks!