got 250, need to clean carbs...advice please

[ryu hayabusa]

just got a 2000 f14. needs some work but i'm getting it done. question is on cleaning the carbs. i tried starting it this evening, turns over fine. dumped gas in petcock flows fine, has spark on both plugs, compression i haven't checked yet, but bike is in good condition with only 7100 miles (aside from being laid down at low speed) so doubt it needs gaskets. my guess is lack of fuel, since i just went through the airbox and throttle body is actuating. my question is:
is there a good "pic by pic" write up of carb cleaning and shimming the needles? i hear about the shimming but don't know what it is or what does... plus i've only cleaned up two stroke carbs. is there anything different about the CVK's??? thanks to all in advance.

[kkim]

if you've cleaned two stroke carbs, these are very similar except the slides operate by vacuum pressure to move them up and down.

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_a_c...arbs_explained

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_...n_the_carbs%3F

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Carburetor_photos

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/I_want_...uretor_jetting

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Can_I_i...ole_jet_kit%3F

good luck

[ryu hayabusa]

well that kinda explains the washer shimming. what does that do?

[kkim]

Originally Posted by ryu hayabusa

well that kinda explains the washer shimming. what does that do?

what does what do???

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by ryu hayabusa

just got a 2000 f14. question is on cleaning the carbs.

I don't think they are carbureted.

[ryu hayabusa]

lol, i expected that at some point cowboy... what does the shimming do? what purpose does it serve? and is it on pregens that need this?

[ryu hayabusa]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

I don't think they are carbureted.

i'm wealthy.

[kkim]

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9465&

[ryu hayabusa]

cleaned my cvk's. found both needles were dirty, one has some scratches on it??? is this normal from the constant sliding motion??? also, one of my diaphrams (insert dirty joke) ripped slightly where the carb top screws down on the carb body. is this an issue??? or can i get by?

[kkim]

needles should be okay.

pictures of the torn diaphragm? that could be an issue, though if you already have the carbs back together and in the bike, start it up and see how it runs.

[ryu hayabusa]

will do, how could the rip prevent operation? will it idle and not advance?

[kkim]

the diaphragms control the slides via vacuum pressure. if they are damaged, the vacuum pressures are off and the slides function as designed.

most that rip the diaphragms find that they can't rev the bike properly.

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_a_c...eat_Compromise

[ryu hayabusa]

i bought this bike (2000 ninjette, 7100 miles) a month ago not running, it had been low sided and then sold to a buddy who let it sit for years not running. i bought the bike figuring i could fix it and ride. it will turn over but not start, not even with starting fluid. here's what i do know:

i cleaned the carb yesterday, everything is very clean, the needles are not shimmed.

the diaphragm on one carb is slightly torn (it should still start up right???)

the kickstand switch wires are hacked off, i tried connecting them, nothing. i tried unconnecting them, nothing.

my headlight sometimes works and sometimes doesn't (have no idea if that would pertain to starting or not)

took air box off- nothing

I AM GETTING SPARK!!! both plugs are brand new NGK's.

i know an engine needs spark,fuel,air,and compression to run.

the only thing i've not checked is the compression, but the bike would still start and just run crappy.

i can get pics of anything you guys want. let me know what you think, i'm a good mechanic (normally) and i fix wiring on appliances all day long, but this one has me stumped.

[ryu hayabusa]

so, like i said. bike turns over but doesn't even want to sputter or fire. i'm lost.

[ryu hayabusa]

ya, bike won't fire up, just turn over. keep in mind all i was using was starting fluid

[kkim]

why aren't you using gas from the tank?

[dubojr1]

Please refrain from posting multiple threads with similar technical issues in each. It is hard for us guys on here to diagnose your concerns when we have to monitor 3-4 different threads. Keep all the information in one thread so we can help. kkim has started to help in one of your other post. I would suggest you stick with that thread until your concerns are corrected.

[dubojr1]

kkim: Here is some additional information he has posted in another thread. I have asked that he keep all the information centrally located so we can try to help.

Originally Posted by ryu hayabusa

i bought this bike (2000 ninjette, 7100 miles) a month ago not running, it had been low sided and then sold to a buddy who let it sit for years not running. i bought the bike figuring i could fix it and ride. it will turn over but not start, not even with starting fluid. here's what i do know:

i cleaned the carb yesterday, everything is very clean, the needles are not shimmed.

the diaphragm on one carb is slightly torn (it should still start up right???)

the kickstand switch wires are hacked off, i tried connecting them, nothing. i tried unconnecting them, nothing.

my headlight sometimes works and sometimes doesn't (have no idea if that would pertain to starting or not)

took air box off- nothing

I AM GETTING SPARK!!! both plugs are brand new NGK's.

i know an engine needs spark,fuel,air,and compression to run.

the only thing i've not checked is the compression, but the bike would still start and just run crappy.

i can get pics of anything you guys want. let me know what you think, i'm a good mechanic (normally) and i fix wiring on appliances all day long, but this one has me stumped.

[Alex]

/threads merged

[ryu hayabusa]

i thought they were different questions. but oh well i don't care as long as i get help and not a thread buried in 23 replies involving "go to the dealer" as the main gist.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by kkim

why aren't you using gas from the tank?

answer my question and then we can proceed... unless you don't want to track down the problem.

[ryu hayabusa]

gas tank has gaping holes where the low side took off the bracket for the upper fairing on the left side on tank, plus tank has dents and needs paint and has sat for at least three years with varnish in it. it is getting repaired now as we speak since a new one costs 500$ and nobody wants to sell a used one any cheaper.

will it not fire if the float bowls aren't filled up? like i said all i'm using is starter fluid.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by ryu hayabusa

will it not fire if the float bowls aren't filled up?

most likely not... what do you expect the bike to run on even if it lights from the starting fluid?

hook up a spare container of gas higher than the carbs, then run a fuel line down to the carbs to fill them up.

[ryu hayabusa]

that's what i did today, again nothing. next, i took the carbs off completely and tried firing off starting fluid sprayed directly into the intake hoses. nothing. i found (for the third time) I am getting spark. checked gap, cleaned. found the plugs in the bike a ngk
c7hsa, not cr8hsa. would this really make the difference? the FSM says c7hsa is an option for cold weather (not in cold weather when testing, although it is getting into mid 30's at night)

now about the kickstand switch, as of right now i've been trying bike with them disconnected, then trying to start with said wires connected. does the switch make or break the ignition? cause the bike will turn over regardless of what i do.

i am completely new to bikes guys. i've tuned over 35+ import cars, only three have been carb'd. i hoped my car tuning could pass over to the bike. BTW, this bike was NOT in running condition when i got it. so i need some basic pointers on starting this thing.
will it start with no oil? i think it has some oil, sight glass doesn't show. could be overfilled??? would that prevent start up? any other sensors or switches or wires or safety junk i need to be checking operation of.
i start it everytime in N although it will turn over in first!!!! (back tire slowly turns.) im pretty sure that's not good.

[ryu hayabusa]

could it be valves need adjusted? haven't opened it up yet.

[kkim]

you need to make sure the bowls get filled with gas to insure it starting. there are drain screws at the bottom of the carb bowls... loosen them to make sure gas comes out of them confirming the bowls are indeed filling with gas.

plugs should be okay for now. as long as they are sparking, the plugs are good and the switches you are worrying about is allowing the bike to turn over.

It's a gas issue. make sure the bowls get filled with gas and then try starting it.

What exactly were you told about the bike when you bought it about it's running condition?

[dubojr1]

Kkim: shouldn't it at least fire over with starting fluid. Spark with no firing makes me think timing.

[kkim]

I would think the starting fluid would make the bike "burp", but w/o any gas in the carb bowls, there is nothing to sustain burning/getting the engine running on it's own it it does have the chance to run w/o gas.

I may be wrong, but I can't see trying top start the bike w/o making sure all the basics are there before deciding it's something else.

When was the last time the bike ran? how was the maintenance to that point?

You can try pouring about a cap full of gas down each spark plug hole, put the plugs back in and start cranking to see if it starts up.

[ryu hayabusa]

Originally Posted by kkim

When was the last time the bike ran? how was the maintenance to that point?
.

last time it ran it went down, tags on bike were up in 2007, and last titled in 2005. has 7700 miles. i bought the bike from a mother who's son is MIA. felt bad giving her 350$ for the little ninja, but she wouldn't take anymore...

also, when you say a "cap" full, cap of what size? soda pop? gas cap off gas can?

[kkim]

Originally Posted by ryu hayabusa

last time it ran it went down, tags on bike were up in 2007, and last titled in 2005. has 7700 miles. i bought the bike from a mother who's son is MIA. felt bad giving her 350$ for the little ninja, but she wouldn't take anymore...

also, when you say a "cap" full, cap of what size? soda pop? gas cap off gas can?

wow, that's a sad story about the last owner.

sorry, "cap full" meaning about a teaspoon.

"went down" meaning crashed? what type of damage?

[ryu hayabusa]

nothing major, bent forks and scuffed a lot on the left side. also, frame has two indents where i believe the frame was tweaked upward in the front during the crash. bike seems to be straight to the eye. i'm not worried about it (it's the least of my problems.)
just noticing something today, i've been cranking on this thing a lot, the battery was semi-dead when i got it, so i charged it and have been charging it after everytime i work on the bike, after watching some yutube vids of ninja's starting up i notice my starter is REALLY slow, i mean it gets faster after i leave it alone and charge it, but compared to the online vids, it's slow even at "full charge" meter on my charger never gets to the green, stays slightly red.
could it be a low battery causing the no start???
Would some kind individual post a vid of their bike starting W/O the start up?? so i can hear the starter and how fast it is. in the other vids the bike starts after like two "cranks" of the starter...
if it's a timing issue, i'm assuming it would be mechanical timing, not ignition timing right? even if the iggy timing was off it'd still sputter.

[kkim]

you need to fill the carbs with fresh gas for the bike to have a chance of starting. have you done that?

[ryu hayabusa]

ya i did that, in fact, ive done it everytime now since you suggested it. i thought it'd at least crank over on fluid, but now i have premium going from my gas tank to the carb hose.

[ryu hayabusa]

spark doesn't look TOO blue either, kinda purplish sometimes.

[kkim]

how are you connecting the gas line to the carbs? through the fuel petcock of some other means? gas will not flow through the fuel petcock w/o the engine started. I know, kinda bassackwards, but that's why I'm asking. if through the fuel petcock you may still not be getting gas to the carbs.

[ryu hayabusa]

it's literally my spare gas can tipped upside down, the spout is a perfect fit for the fuel line to the carb

[ryu hayabusa]

no cocks involved, lol. gas tank is still being repaired...

[kkim]

cool... so we are pretty sure gas is getting to the carbs.

are you using the choke when trying to start the bike?

[ryu hayabusa]

Of course I'm using the choke. I'm not retard. I've worked that choke every direction trying to start it. So choke isn't an issue. I'm still leaning toward a low battery. Like I said, I heavily smell fuel when turning it over but it turns over at a slower pace than every bike I've ever heard. I'm gonna buy a battery today. Let ya guys know in a few hours how this turns out.

[ryu hayabusa]

Also, I found a thread on 250.org where someone had same isssue. Turns a slow rotating starter can prevent start up sine the carb'd engine requires some initial air movement in the head to get ignition