removing a stuck bolt?

[alex.s]

what are your methods? when the head just strips...

we tried the socket, stripped, we tried the wrench, stripped. we cut a slot into it and tried but it kept stripping or slipping. we tried vice grips but it kept stripping. we stopped before we used an extractor bit but i'm not sure that would have done the trick either. recommendations?

oh its a bolt on the cam cage.

[KELPHYN]

You can get bolt/nut extracters that bit into outer edges of the bolt/nut, no drilling. Never used them myself, but some guys at work swear by them.

[TnNinjaGirl]

/\ This

[cuong-nutz]

Extractor works and welding wrench or angle iron to it works too.

[k-os]

You can also try tapping a slightly smaller socket onto the bolt. Use a 12 point socket that's just a little smaller than the bolt head. Also heat it up if you're able to.

[Motofool]

Sorry to say this, but you guys did all possible things to destroy any means of grabbing that bolt.

Before going deeper, just stop digging.

Take it to a machine shop; they can do it for $50 or less.

You could also try this in combination with some heat from a torch applied onto the head:

http://www.harborfreight.com/9-piece...ets-67894.html

[billmi]

Spray PB Blaster on it, let it soak in overnight, then try the tools.

[blink]

They sell stuff at home hardware stores...don't know what it is, i believe it's some liquid type thing. just go ask

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Take it to a machine shop;

what is a machine shop going to do that i cant do? set the whole thing on the mill, drill the center out and remove the remains?

we tried heating it. didnt help. we got a good grip on it a few times but the bolt was really on there. put at least 60 ft/pounds on it trying to get it off... i've never seen a cam cage bolt stuck on like that! those bolts are brass right? i'm wondering if it was opened up before and someone lock-tited that bolt or something

i like those outside extractor heads... i might go pick up a set even if i dont get to try them on that bolt.

[Whiskey]

Impact driver & a lump hammer or a compressed air impact driver (you probably f*cked the bolt head up beyond use with at this stage tho)

[Motofool]

I don't know what your capabilities are, Alex; but I know that a machine shop has tools and means of alignment that can do it causing minimum damage.

One way is centering the bolt perfectly and destroying it with successive diameter left hand drills, until they can use a left hand interior extractor or until only the helicoidal thread remains and can be pulled out.

They could re-machine a square on the remaining head using a mill (so you could do using a file with care).

They could solder a thick washer or bar using the slot that you guys did or machining a better one, having the bonus of real heat reaching the stocked threads before dissipating away into the coolant in the head (friction is the only force there, unless somebody has used red Loctite, which is for permanent assembly ).

If the head threads get damaged in the process, they can refurbish it or insert a coil.

You have not reached the torque that the bolt can take or you would have twisted the head off already.

Let the poor thing be soaked by some penetrating oil before continuing trying.

[cuong-nutz]

You can try using a chisel and hammer. Not sure how big the head of the bolt.

I have spot welded a closed end wrench to stripped heads and loosened them with no problems numerous times.

Granted you may not have access to welder.

[capriccio]

I've just used this to remove a bad screw on my oil reservoir. Worked !

[alex.s]

thanks hernan. solid methods. i would like to try some of them. unfortunately its not my engine so i dont get to futz around with it much.

we tried a chisel and hammer, no dice.

i do have a welder, but i believe those bolts are brass? my MIG is setup for steel right now. they are extremely soft and definitely not steel or aluminum. i like the idea of soldering/brazing on a lever to the bolt but with the slots drilled we were able to get a decent hold on it and it still wouldn't budge. we tried with a bent up long screw driver and we were really wrenching on it. i think we put at least 50 ftlbs of force and that little bastard and it wouldn't come out.

i'm wondering whether its bottomed out in the hole, or if all the friction is coming from the head? as in, if i removed the base of the head leaving the top, would the tension on the bolt be less? i think i need to measure the depth of those holes to tell if that would help any...

when you say penetrating oil, what kind of oil do you mean? this bolt is inside under the valve cover on the cam cage, so it should be sprayed by engine oil under normal operation. its also completely rust-free

though, the engine had sat in the bike outside for "6 months" without being ran... but its only got 3k miles on it. the valve cover shouldnt have even been off since it came from the factory before.

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by alex.s

thanks hernan. solid methods. i would like to try some of them. unfortunately its not my engine so i dont get to futz around with it much.

we tried a chisel and hammer, no dice.

i do have a welder, but i believe those bolts are brass? my MIG is setup for steel right now. they are extremely soft and definitely not steel or aluminum. i like the idea of soldering/brazing on a lever to the bolt but with the slots drilled we were able to get a decent hold on it and it still wouldn't budge. we tried with a bent up long screw driver and we were really wrenching on it. i think we put at least 50 ftlbs of force and that little bastard and it wouldn't come out.

i'm wondering whether its bottomed out in the hole, or if all the friction is coming from the head? as in, if i removed the base of the head leaving the top, would the tension on the bolt be less? i think i need to measure the depth of those holes to tell if that would help any...

when you say penetrating oil, what kind of oil do you mean? this bolt is inside under the valve cover on the cam cage, so it should be sprayed by engine oil under normal operation. its also completely rust-free

though, the engine had sat in the bike outside for "6 months" without being ran... but its only got 3k miles on it. the valve cover shouldnt have even been off since it came from the factory before.

An impact driver can give much higher than 50ftlb and gives it in an instant.
Penetrating oil is a spray oil similar to WD40

If you have an air compressor you can use an air driver to give a few hundred ftlb

Manual impact driver $18
Air driver 500ftlb $140

Both were random searches on amazon to highlight the items, I cant vouch for either make

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Whiskey

An impact driver can give much higher than 50ftlb and gives it in an instant.
Penetrating oil is a spray oil similar to WD40

If you have an air compressor you can use an air driver to give a few hundred ftlb

Manual impact driver $18
Air driver 500ftlb $140

Both were random searches on amazon to highlight the items, I cant vouch for either make

i have impacts, including an air impact. what i'm worried about is the weak brass bolt that i have split in two before with much less effort. i dont want to split it halfway through the threads.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by alex.s

.......
i'm wondering whether its bottomed out in the hole, or if all the friction is coming from the head? as in, if i removed the base of the head leaving the top, would the tension on the bolt be less?............

when you say penetrating oil, what kind of oil do you mean? this bolt is inside under the valve cover on the cam cage, so it should be sprayed by engine oil under normal operation. its also completely rust-free......

You can bet the friction is coming from the head, or you would have sheared the interior diameter of the thread off by now (especially if brass).

The friction acts on the sides of the thread's fillets in a descending intensity from top to bottom.

Drilling the stem (in a perfectly centered manner) releases some of the radial pressure from those critical top fillets and reduces the resistive friction force.

WD-40, Liquid Wrench and plain kerosene have worked for me for years, even for bolts that have been in a constant bath of regular oil.

It amazes me that that bolt is brass.
Any other bolt that is similar to this one and already out?
Is it a Ninjette?
Any picture?

It is possible but not sure that removing the head will make the extraction of the remains easy, since you will need to use an interior extractor or left hand drill that offers less leverage on a relatively soft material.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...actor/_/N-25qe

http://www.harborfreight.com/13-piec...set-95146.html

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-2-hal...tor-94640.html

[k-os]

I'd be surprised if it was a brass bolt. Maybe just a really soft steal bolt that's zinc plated?

[tylernt]

Originally Posted by k-os

I'd be surprised if it was a brass bolt. Maybe just a really soft steal bolt that's zinc plated?

Indeed. Test it with a magnet.

[Jiggles]

Try turning it counter-clockwise

[Motofool]

Any progress?

[KELPHYN]

Hmmm...think Jiggles is on to something

If anything a little C4 will pop that sucker right out

[adamjenkum]

what pb blaster can't do kano kroil can, if kroil don't work drill it and retap if u have to, taps are cheap compared to a machine shop. I only resort to shops if i need something modified.

kroil is hard to find though anyone that sees it in stores usually buys it all up fast, they usually have jobs working with machines in highly corrosive environments.

http://www.google.com/search?q=kano+...w=1045&bih=660

[flynjay]

I give you guys props for trying so hard. I would have drilled the head by now.

[Rexbo]

Yeah I would have said impact first, all other methods last. Best way of removing anything even if its not stuck. Impulse forces ftw to overcome friction.

[loz944]

maybe too late for this instance but experience has taught me That if the bolt is really tight to undo often before you damage the head Use a 6 point socket and just try to tighten it (Yes I did say tighten) This will often break any locktight pr corrosion But be careful Just turn it a fraction then try to remove it.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by loz944

maybe too late for this instance but experience has taught me That if the bolt is really tight to undo often before you damage the head Use a 6 point socket and just try to tighten it (Yes I did say tighten) This will often break any locktight pr corrosion But be careful Just turn it a fraction then try to remove it.

the problem is that the bolt stripped pretty much instantly as if it was made of sand.

[loz944]

Originally Posted by alex.s

the problem is that the bolt stripped pretty much instantly as if it was made of sand.

Yeah like i said a little late for this one

I would at this stage consider drilling and using an easy out dangers are you could damage the thread and need to have a new helicoil

The machine shop idea sounds safest