Usability of 600cc and greater supersports on actual streets

[etiainen]

Not trying to start any sort of flame war, but I'm a little curious, how do super sports perform in actual road conditions compared to something like our 250s or a 650r(or its other variants)?

I find that my 250 performs great in basically all street conditions, the only thing that I find lacking is performance for 2-up riding(but I don't do long 2-up trips just usually for quick errands around the city)

My impression thus far is that supersports don't provide any real benefit unless you're on a track? Is that correct?

[Toly]

What is your benefit? Practical commuting or fun?

Compared to a 250r, supersports have a ton of power. Compared to a 650r, they have sublime handling. So, there's a world of difference, even on public streets.

[etiainen]

Originally Posted by Toly

What is your benefit? Practical commuting or fun?

Compared to a 250r, supersports have a ton of power. Compared to a 650r, they have sublime handling. So, there's a world of difference, even on public streets.

I'd say a bit of both commuting and fun. For me, my bike is basically both, I use it for commuting and as a recreational vehicle. Can a supersport work as a commuter?

[NathanUc]

It depends on the area. Around where I live street riding is typically stop and go 25-40mph. This is perfect 250r conditions.

Up around where I grew up, typical speed limits are 35-55 with a heavy focus on the constant 50-55. In area's like that the 250r does just fine, but I still think I would prefer something along the lines of a 650r over a 250r in those conditions.

Every time I make a trip from Bloomington IN to Chicago (about 250miles) I wish I were on a 650r. I personally want a zx6r but feel the 650r would be a much smarter/more fun choice so that's what I plan to buy. Also.. call me crazy but I like the sound of a parallel twin over an inline 4.... (rsv-4 trumps all though)

[whiteboy]

I don't see why not. It won't get a great has milage as the 250 but it will also perform better on highway IMO. Not to many public roads can get get the full potential of a ss but who cares realy it all about you 2 wheels and the excitement of the road.

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by etiainen

I'd say a bit of both commuting and fun. For me, my bike is basically both, I use it for commuting and as a recreational vehicle. Can a supersport work as a commuter?

It can but the up-keep will be substantially more.

[drowe531]

I think you could use a SS fine for commuting/fun but I don't think it would be the best choice, but I do know people that do that. It should be able to handle the street roads fine but you will probably never leave second gear. Also I believe some of the SS lack a bit of response in the lower rpm range but I may be wrong. Personally for me I am looking at a ninja 650 or SV650 for my next bike. I think it is a good blend between the usability of the 250 and the higher power of SS.

[etiainen]

Originally Posted by NathanUc

It depends on the area. Around where I live street riding is typically stop and go 25-40mph. This is perfect 250r conditions.

Up around where I grew up, typical speed limits are 35-55 with a heavy focus on the constant 50-55. In area's like that the 250r does just fine, but I still think I would prefer something along the lines of a 650r over a 250r in those conditions.

Every time I make a trip from Bloomington IN to Chicago (about 250miles) I wish I were on a 650r. I personally want a zx6r but feel the 650r would be a much smarter/more fun choice so that's what I plan to buy. Also.. call me crazy but I like the sound of a parallel twin over an inline 4.... (rsv-4 trumps all though)

After my trip to Maryland and back I can see why I'd want something different for a longer interstate trip, not that the 250 didn't perform admirably, something a bit more comfy would've been appreciated(though I guess I could always go for a seat swap )

[NathanUc]

Originally Posted by etiainen

After my trip to Maryland and back I can see why I'd want something different for a longer interstate trip, not that the 250 didn't perform admirably, something a bit more comfy would've been appreciated(though I guess I could always go for a seat swap )

Exactly. I didn't mind the seat but the vibrations on my hands and feet are what drove me crazy. Running at 10k rpm for almost 4 hours certainly takes it's toll...

[etiainen]

Originally Posted by drowe531

I think you could use a SS fine for commuting/fun but I don't think it would be the best choice, but I do know people that do that. It should be able to handle the street roads fine but you will probably never leave second gear. Also I believe some of the SS lack a bit of response in the lower rpm range but I may be wrong. Personally for me I am looking at a ninja 650 or SV650 for my next bike. I think it is a good blend between the usability of the 250 and the higher power of SS.

Wow never leaving second gear...I'm always going all the way up to sixth and back down, annoying but now I kind of like it, helped me get experienced with shifting.

[etiainen]

Originally Posted by NathanUc

Exactly. I didn't mind the seat but the vibrations on my hands and feet are what drove me crazy. Running at 10k rpm for almost 4 hours certainly takes it's toll...

Haha, yeah! My right hand was numb by the time I got there lol!

[drowe531]

Originally Posted by etiainen

Wow never leaving second gear...I'm always going all the way up to sixth and back down, annoying but now I kind of like it, helped me get experienced with shifting.

It might be a slight exaggeration but I can't imagine them having to shift many gears, shifting constantly with the 250 is a big part of fun I find.

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by drowe531

It might be a slight exaggeration but I can't imagine them having to shift many gears, shifting constantly with the 250 is a big part of fun I find.

^+100

[Flashmonkey]

Depends on your definition of "usefulness".

I commute on a 19 year old gixxer 750. We're talking 40-80 minute commute times in stop and go traffic here. She does just fine. The only minor issue I have is that she tends to over heat when standing still due to all of the freakin' plastic covering the radiator and the engine. That's nothing a manual fan switch couldn't fix, though. I went fancy with the switch and that mod cost me $1.50

Is it as easy to ride as a ninja 250 in traffic? Not quite. It's larger and heavier, for one thing. The seating position doesn't lend itself well to laziness either. Gotta be fit and sharp to be able to hold a leaned over position while crawling in traffic for 40 minutes without getting sloppy. But it sure is nice not to have to downshift everytime I want to cut someone off, though.

[rockNroll]

Originally Posted by etiainen

My impression thus far is that supersports don't provide any real benefit unless you're on a track? Is that correct?

Your impression doesn't hold much value if you haven't ridden them. They have many benifits, go try one

[alex.s]

very usable if you know how to ride and have good throttle control, otherwise you end up sliding down the road into a bus.

[etiainen]

Originally Posted by rockNroll

Your impression doesn't hold much value if you haven't ridden them. They have many benifits, go try one

I think I will, and try to be careful too

[almost40]

They work fine.
Given:
you have a strong core
you dont mind the riding position
you want gas mileage like a small car
And you dont mind all the increased costs that come with a 600 SS

I like the idea of the SV650
I would take one of these in a second....... if I could find a good deal.
Great street AND trackbikes.

[backinthesaddleagain]

You will leave second gear even around town. When I ride the highway I click it up into 6th and the lower rpms's return decent gas mileage. Just because a certain bike can do a certain speed in a certain gear doesn't mean you ride it that way. I believe the 2009 ZX10 would hit 100mph in first, that doesn't mean riding it down the highway in 1st at even 70 for more than a second or 2 would make much sense.

[cr250dave]

I have an 08 CBR600 and an 11 250r for the girlfriend and like to switch bikes every couple of days. It is my opinion that my commute on the 250 is a bit more relaxed and forgiving. The 250 has very little power and allows me to keep up with traffic without feeling like traffic is going overly slow. My commute is 18 miles consisting of 4 miles of freeway driving at ~80 and the rest are streets at ~45 with 5 traffic lights. I do not like the lack of power on freeways as it does not allow me to quickly get by or in front of careless drivers but is perfectly suited for city streets. The 600 is much more fun to ride but requires better throttle control and overall concentration. All bikes require absolute attention to the road and everything around you but the 250 has such little power and is extremely agile it makes for a great little commuter.


As far as the gear shifting comments you shift quite often on a SS. Granted, my 600 can reach 72 MPH in first there is no reason why I would do that on the street. I usually get up to 5th gear by 40 MPH and hit 6th anywhere above that.

[zilaniz]

I like my R6, I dont really commute on it that much, just ride it for pleasure on backroads. You shift on a 600 often

[drowe531]

Originally Posted by cr250dave

As far as the gear shifting comments you shift quite often on a SS. Granted, my 600 can reach 72 MPH in first there is no reason why I would do that on the street. I usually get up to 5th gear by 40 MPH and hit 6th anywhere above that.

Ya I guess my comment was poorly worded.

[cr250dave]

Originally Posted by almost40

They work fine.
Given:
you have a strong core
you dont mind the riding position
you want gas mileage like a small car
And you dont mind all the increased costs that come with a 600 SS

I like the idea of the SV650
I would take one of these in a second....... if I could find a good deal.
Great street AND trackbikes.

I think you were spot on about the core. Riding a SS daily does require a certain fitness level in order to really be comfortable in the riding position. Also, depending on year you may need to run premium in a bike the gets ~42 MPG.

I don't the 250s seat to be comfortable at all but everyone's different.

[Xoulrath]

I guess it depends on what you want out of it. I use my ZX to commute nine miles and it isn't a problem. Granted, it's only nine miles, but I have ridden the bike on plenty of long, boring straight rides and the comfort factor isn't a problem (again, so long as your core is in good condition).

I find the boredom factor to be my biggest issue. The problem with a supersport is that you are always in "attack mode". The riding position is meant to be suited for triple-digit speeds, hard braking, and fast, aggressive cornering. So it is very underwhelming riding on a straight slab at 60ish mph on one.

As far as maintenance, I doubt it actually costs that much more to use a supersport for commuting and weekend duty. My 600 barely holds more oil than the 250, and I would change either at the same interval. The valve job on the 600, though more costly, is done half as much, so that's a wash. Tires, well, if you are using the bike for commuting as well as weekend fun, tires won't be that much more on the bigger bike, and even then only the rear is a noticeable difference in cost.

Taking the 600 to the track would cost more than taking a 250 to the track, but when you start talking about that, it's a moot point. In this situation, run whichever you prefer if you can afford it, and if money is an issue, then you get a 250 track bike.

Insurance is likely to be the largest cost difference between a 250 and a 600. I have only briefly checked insurance for the literbikes, but it wasn't much more than the 600s. Either way, the insurance costs are easily doubled for most people.

["A"]

Originally Posted by almost40

I like the idea of the SV650
I would take one of these in a second....... if I could find a good deal.
Great street AND trackbikes.

SV650S are great all-arounders, i wouldn't consider them the same as supersport class. FI model SV650's are overrated, 99-02 carb-ed SV can be found under $3k and you get get them under 400 lb. pretty easily.

[greatwhiteninja]

never owned a 600cc but did have a 200whp zx12r and 2 stock zx9's.. they were mainly used as a commuter bikes. i just enjoy riding the sportbikes more then i do say a harley or similiar cruiser . but the biggest thing i noticed using the big sport bikes to commute .. i was never late to work..loL!

[ratlab]

i've owned every size bike and really you get used to the power and they all seem slow after a while -the 1000's i find easiest to ride because you can be lazy and use 1 gear most of the time-no downshifting ,you don't have to plan your passes for 5 minutes before you do them-you can ride them slow, the power band is forgiving and suspensions are fantastic-i'm finding the 250 super fun,but difficult for me, i can keep up with friends on 600's and 1000's on tight roads, but it takes a level of commitment that is scary-actually i think it's making me a better rider -keeping corner speed up,planning overtakes,thinking about my riding more than just nailing the throttle -i don't ride my other bikes at all anymore,i was kind of getting burnt out on the motorcycle thing,i do a lot of track days and instruct for let's ride,but the 250 got me back into it

[phr3ek]

get a standard or sport touring bike for commuting and comfort

get a SS for aggressive riding, be it commuting or canyons

i commute 130 miles a day everyday on my 04 636
dont like having a heavy back pack
wasnt a problem b4 on the 250

[saber63]

I'll chime in. I started out on 600cc bikes, and moved down to the 250 when I got one for my fiancee... i rode it more then she has...

The super sport bikes are not as comfy, but they are pretty dang close to a purpose built race machine. You're giving up creature comforts like upright riding position, being able to be sloppy in shifts and throttle etc... For feeling like you are one with the bike and the road in a way a ninja 250 cant give with out a lot of work done to it!

Of course there are less sporty bikes then the ninja250, and there is a lot of gray in between all of it.

Its really a balance of , power, comfort, handling, and cost. and its all different to every person.

The supersports can give something on the street, it can be hard pushing(knee dragging wheelies stopies etc...). Or it can simply be that feeling that riding a race derived bike gives.

In my case its so I can go out, ride a decent pace on the street, and know that im not pushing the bike anywhere near its limits. Just in case something comes up I was not expecting! deer in the road, fallen tree, car in my lane. Having a bike that can lean further, stop or accel a bit faster, may just save my bacon when I find something I didn't want to.

In the end its all opinion.

-Levi

p.s. I tend to have more fun on the little ninja, but I also tend to run higher corner speeds/lean angles... leaving less lean angle and grip for the unexpected...

[almost40]

I think the 250 that has rearsets will lean just as far as any of the 600 SS. As a matter of fact I think the 250 is on par with of even better than the 600's in every category but acceleration and top speed. Slap-on some clip-ons and its sporty but not too sporty. PERFECT........ IMO

[rusninja]

++++^^^^ if it had fi too there would prolly be more buyers when it comes to picking a bike. :S

[Flashmonkey]

Originally Posted by almost40

As a matter of fact I think the 250 is on par with of even better than the 600's in every category but acceleration and top speed.

And suspension. Let's not go nuts here.

[almost40]

I understand what your saying Flashmonkey but 95% of the riders out there cant push the stock 250 suspension beyond its limit. They push the bike beyond their own skill limit, not the suspensions. Proper form pays HUGE dividends along with being SMOOTH.
An Advanced group rider (like myself) on a 250 with a stock supension (like mine) will run circles around a 600ss with trick suspension in Intermediate group. I know, Ive done it, many many times. It all boils down to the rider and his skill level. The bikes suspension in stock form is PLENTY capable and on par with any 600 for 95% of the riders out there.
I see those guys at every trackday I attend, They talk like they are fast. Then you nearly a$$ pack them in the corner because they really have no IDEA what the machine they are riding is capable of. My best friend rides an 07 R6. His machine will outperform my 04 FZ in every way. I run a second and a half faster every lap. WHY?? Im alot smoother than he is and more in tune with my bikes limit. When I take his bike onto the track I shave 3/4 of a second off MY lap times compared to my FZ without even trying. Is he a bad rider?? NO. He just doesnt know how far he can take his ability.(which he has plenty of)

[ducducgooseit]

SS make great commuters. They are weapons for the war on traffic.

[00NissanNinja]

I feel like I could live with having a zx-6r. It really wasn't that bad. True, it had more of an aggressive leaned forward position but it didn't bother me after riding it for about an hour. It was smooth and for me it was easy to ride.

[eddiekay]

If you're going to stay on the streets in Philly the 250 is more useable. Follow 611 up north and the Ninjette will do everything the bigger bikes will do...except pass traffic.
The ONLY time you'll ever be totally outclassed is on the straight smooth roads and even at that, you'll be way above the speed limit. The Ninjette is a true sport bike...but slower on straightaways.

[CC Cowboy]

Anyone that has a brain in the head (and reads all the post on this forum) knows that 600s and 1000s are track bikes and should only be ridden by professionals ( or aspiring professionals). I feel even the 250s are too big for local riding and people should ride 50 (or 150) scooters around town. Everyone knows that highway riding is for cruisers (Harleys and Goldwings, BMWs if you're in Europe). I know I might let flamed by those who think differently but if more people rode scooters the roads would be safer.

[Boom King]

Originally Posted by etiainen

Can a supersport work as a commuter?

I don't see why it wouldn't work. A Ferrari Enzo will work as a commuter if you want it to as well. I guess the more appropriate question should be more along the lines of "does it make sense to use a super sport primarily as a commuter?" What works doesn't always make sense.

It's kinda like buying a thoroughbred to drag a cart when a donkey will do just fine . Not that I'm saying the 250 is a donkey in any way. Even the 250 doesn't get pushed to its limits (legally) unless you take it to a track. But hey, if a SS is what you want and you have the money and feel you can handle it, then don't let others decide what will make you happy. I applaud the fact that you are at least not rushing into this (yet? ) and asking for opinions.

[eddiekay]

CC knows something.
A long time ago in another galaxy far away... pro racers ran 50cc, 125cc and the big bikes, the 250's around the tracks.

[etiainen]

Originally Posted by Boom King

I don't see why it wouldn't work. A Ferrari Enzo will work as a commuter if you want it to as well. I guess the more appropriate question should be more along the lines of "does it make sense to use a super sport primarily as a commuter?" What works doesn't always make sense.

It's kinda like buying a thoroughbred to drag a cart when a donkey will do just fine . Not that I'm saying the 250 is a donkey in any way. Even the 250 doesn't get pushed to its limits (legally) unless you take it to a track. But hey, if a SS is what you want and you have the money and feel you can handle it, then don't let others decide what will make you happy. I applaud the fact that you are at least not rushing into this (yet? ) and asking for opinions.

Definitely not rushing into anything!! Just a bit curious is all. I've heard and read a lot of things and just wanted to know what people here thought of a 600cc commuter bike. Financial reasons, not to mention the fact that I'm in the city a lot means I'll be sticking with the 250 for at least the coming year(probably more, I have waaaaaay too much fun on this bike)