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Old February 20th, 2010, 10:21 AM   #1
kerrynyc
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Following a passion, need advice!

I have a close friend who is a motorcycle rider, he's been riding bikes for years with his father, however he never took an MSF course and I'm pretty sure he only has a permit... I mean he's a good rider, but last night he got taken to the ER because of a freak accident where his rear wheel kicked and locked up and sent him flying over the handle bars at 15 miles per hour, now he has a broken leg, a bruised hip and feels terrible. I as well felt terrible, he's a good friend of mine and I'd never want to see him in such a messed up situation.

The thing is, is that bikes are also a passion of mine, I've ridden them and I've been a bike lover for years and years. All of my friends ride and I've got my permit and am going to be taking a Motorcycle Saftey Foundation 3 day course to learn everything I can and ride smart and safe. My friend however kept saying "don't get a bike, don't get a bike, don't get a bike" on the phone... I know he was just in an accident and is in a state of shock... but man, he sounded bad. It's just weird because last weekend him and I went looking for bikes for me to get, he's always been wanting me to be able to ride with him.

I'm just torn and I don't know what to do. He would never want to see me in the situation that he is in, and I would never want to be in that situation either, and I certainly don't like that he is hurting right now... but bikes are passion of mine, since I was a kid I've loved bikes... and now, after hearing how my friend sounded, I'm not going lie, it scared me. I just don't know what to do. I just wanted to write and see if anyone could give some words of advice.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 10:38 AM   #2
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Safety should aalways be your #1 concern. If your not thinking safety 100% of the time then don't get a bike.
First thing before you even think about getting on a bike is to take the MSF course and take it very slow and easay after you pass the couse to get comfortable with your bike.
Second thing is bike size. Don't listen to people who try and tell you that the Ninja 250 is too small and that you will quickly outgrow it. They obviously have never rode one. IMHO you are making a wise decision in contemplating buying a 250R.
Being scared in the begining is a good thing. It keeps you safe. As you ride more and more your confidence will grow.
Remember - ATGATT, ride safe and have fun.
Sorry to hear about your friend. Maybe you can convince him that although he has been riding for a while it might not be a bad idea to join you in an MSF class after he heals up.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 10:41 AM   #3
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I wish I had more power, but honestly, the 250 is a fun little ride. 250's are the way to go, even for a guy like me who has owned a larger displacement motorcycle.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 10:46 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake View Post
Safety should aalways be your #1 concern. If your not thinking safety 100% of the time then don't get a bike.
First thing before you even think about getting on a bike is to take the MSF course and take it very slow and easay after you pass the couse to get comfortable with your bike.
Second thing is bike size. Don't listen to people who try and tell you that the Ninja 250 is too small and that you will quickly outgrow it. They obviously have never rode one. IMHO you are making a wise decision in contemplating buying a 250R.
Being scared in the begining is a good thing. It keeps you safe. As you ride more and more your confidence will grow.
Remember - ATGATT, ride safe and have fun.
Sorry to hear about your friend. Maybe you can convince him that although he has been riding for a while it might not be a bad idea to join you in an MSF class after he heals up.


When I was first getting into riding, I asked several co-workers, I was still in the Army at the time, for advice on riding and gear. One, who had been riding quite a while, told me the line that I have remembered better than any other, respect the bike and its power.

Snake pretty much hit it on the head. don't think that I could have said it any better.

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Old February 20th, 2010, 11:00 AM   #5
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Thanks for the advice everyone, I'm glad I got some responses. Yeah I am 100% content with getting a 250r. I think they are perfect, they fit nice, they are comfortable and I think a 250 is all the power I could need. I completely agree with not listening to those who say "don't bother with a 250, get a 600 at least" in fact one of my other friends who is a member of the Long Island Ruff Ryders said exactly that "don't "f" with the 250s, we'll put you on a 600 and lower it for you." I was like "are you insane???"

My number 1 concern is saftey safety saftey. I am looking very much forward to the MSF course in the Spring. I just got freaked out by how my friend who has always wanted me to ride, got so scared that he now is telling me not to. I know he is only concerned for my saftey and he doesn't want what happened to him to happen to me, but I don't want his accident to cloud my passion of getting my own bike.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 11:04 AM   #6
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Hey Kerry,

Greetings from another LIer... your buddy made many mistakes.. and I'm not just talking about the accident.. riding without a license is widespread.. most of the time I rode with mine I had a licensed buddy with me, but I admit I did ride alone to work sometimes.. but this was after I had gotten used to the bike.
Riding a bike is dangerous.. no way around that.. riding on the island is probably worse than many places in the US, but might still be better than some... not sure where you are.. Im in Nassau Cty.... My Ninja was my first bike, and I loved it.. what a great machine to learn on and really develop your skills.. mine would still be in my garage, but I wanted something a bit better for highway cruising with buddies.. the ergos on my CBR are similar to my Ninja... but there is more power.. Im glad I had that bike.. it was perfect for 85% of my rides...

Where are you going to go for the MSF? Tramas? I was a bit suspicious of the $350 price tag, but I have to tell you that it is worth it. I took it after about 800 miles of riding and I learned a TON.. I do recommend it if you can swing the coin..

Snake really summed it up.. get gear and wear it.. and I don't mean just a helmet... be scared, careful, and know your limits (and the bike's)
Take the MSF, ride your ride, and find people that ride safely...

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Old February 20th, 2010, 11:08 AM   #7
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I will interject here. I own a hayabusa yes thats rite a gsx1300r.. I love it, it has a ton of power and is alot of to ride. That being said a riding buddy of mine has an ex250 that I have rode more then one time and I don't care what anyone says it is a fun little bike. Power is only one aspect of riding and not even a vary important one at that. I am getting ready to pick up a 250 for my wife is why I joined the board but don't think for a second that I won't ride. The 250 is a great overall package, great handling, great power for a small bike, and a healthy aftermarket following.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 11:15 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grn99Kawi View Post
Hey Kerry,

Greetings from another LIer... your buddy made many mistakes.. and I'm not just talking about the accident.. riding without a license is widespread.. most of the time I rode with mine I had a licensed buddy with me, but I admit I did ride alone to work sometimes.. but this was after I had gotten used to the bike.
Riding a bike is dangerous.. no way around that.. riding on the island is probably worse than many places in the US, but might still be better than some... not sure where you are.. Im in Nassau Cty.... My Ninja was my first bike, and I loved it.. what a great machine to learn on and really develop your skills.. mine would still be in my garage, but I wanted something a bit better for highway cruising with buddies.. the ergos on my CBR are similar to my Ninja... but there is more power.. Im glad I had that bike.. it was perfect for 85% of my rides...

Where are you going to go for the MSF? Tramas? I was a bit suspicious of the $350 price tag, but I have to tell you that it is worth it. I took it after about 800 miles of riding and I learned a TON.. I do recommend it if you can swing the coin..

Snake really summed it up.. get gear and wear it.. and I don't mean just a helmet... be scared, careful, and know your limits (and the bike's)
Take the MSF, ride your ride, and find people that ride safely...

Best of luck,
Adam
I am from Nassau County as well... I know the roads around here are crazy. I am going to take the course at Tramas, the 350 price tag doesn't bother me, I just want to learn as much as I can. The only thing I am now concerned about is how little experience I have on a bike. My friend taught me a little bit on his cruiser but that was only one time. When you enter Tramas do they expect you to know everything off the bat? I have friends who ride... but they go super fast, I could never ride with them. I'd be doing it alone.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 11:23 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerrynyc View Post
I am from Nassau County as well... I know the roads around here are crazy. I am going to take the course at Tramas, the 350 price tag doesn't bother me, I just want to learn as much as I can. The only thing I am now concerned about is how little experience I have on a bike. My friend taught me a little bit on his cruiser but that was only one time. When you enter Tramas do they expect you to know everything off the bat? I have friends who ride... but they go super fast, I could never ride with them. I'd be doing it alone.
My instructors at Tramas were awesome. Both had 20-25 years experience, and they were super critical but patient at the same time. The people in my group ranged from people like me that had some experience, to people that had a few years riding, to people that had never before sat on a bike.. by the end of the three days nearly everyone was comfortable riding and was able to do maneuvers that we never would have tried before (with any measure of success probably).

The classroom part is a bit dry.. some reading, watching movies and discussion.. but the two days on the range are what make you better.. get there on time or you will be dismissed... and btw.. they had a nice pregen blue Ninja 250 that I took.. everyone else had 125 or 250 cruisers...

If you are interested.., a buddy and I go out on Sunday mornings usually.. sometimes to Ocean Parkway, and sometimes down 25A he has a cruiser too.

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Old February 20th, 2010, 11:24 AM   #10
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Before I started riding a coworker that knew had a wreck on his bike, got injured and soon after got another bike. My response was why. His remark to mine was you can always tell when someone doesn't ride when they ask that question. Now that I ride I understand. But ask this, how many people who have been in car wreck no longer own a car, drive or even get in one?

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Old February 20th, 2010, 11:28 AM   #11
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Before I started riding a coworker that knew had a wreck on his bike, got injured and soon after got another bike. My response was why. His remark to mine was you can always tell when someone doesn't ride when they ask that question. Now that I ride I understand. But ask this, how many people who have been in car wreck no longer own a car, drive or even get in one?

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I think with bikes, it's 100% about the passion, the love of riding and the feeling you get while doing so. I've only ridden once, but I loved it.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 11:29 AM   #12
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Quote:
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My instructors at Tramas were awesome. Both had 20-25 years experience, and they were super critical but patient at the same time. The people in my group ranged from people like me that had some experience, to people that had a few years riding, to people that had never before sat on a bike.. by the end of the three days nearly everyone was comfortable riding and was able to do maneuvers that we never would have tried before (with any measure of success probably).

The classroom part is a bit dry.. some reading, watching movies and discussion.. but the two days on the range are what make you better.. get there on time or you will be dismissed... and btw.. they had a nice pregen blue Ninja 250 that I took.. everyone else had 125 or 250 cruisers...

If you are interested.., a buddy and I go out on Sunday mornings usually.. sometimes to Ocean Parkway, and sometimes down 25A he has a cruiser too.

Adam
Yeah I am excited to get out there at tramas. After I get some experience and finally buy a bike I will take you up on your offer!
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Old February 20th, 2010, 11:55 AM   #13
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Safety should aalways be your #1 concern. If your not thinking safety 100% of the time then don't get a bike.
I don't really agree. I've been riding 25+ years and haven't always thought about being safe. Hell, if I really wanted to be safe I wouldn't be riding motorcycles; those things are dangerous.

Everything you do in life comes with a degree of risk. It is up to each of us to choose how much risk we are willing to accept. To the majority of people in this country motorcycle riding comes with an unacceptable degree of risk. We are in the minority.

I feel that the ATGATT mantra while good in concept can have negative consequences. Young people who already feel invincible have even more of a cavalier attitude when they are suited up in their ATGATT armor.

The real key to safety is understanding the risks. Take a corner too fast and cross the line with a Semi coming the other way and ATGATT or not, you're dead.

This video is one of the best I've seen at explaining some of the risks of riding. I wish there were more of them and a way for every new rider to see them.

Link to original page on YouTube.

ATGATT Nazis may start flaming me now.

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Old February 20th, 2010, 12:01 PM   #14
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ATGATT Nazis may start flaming me now.
Not at all, what you are saying has merit. ATGATT = good. Not crashing = good. If I am forced to choose only one, I'd choose the latter. But if the whole not crashing thing doesn't work out one day, ATGATT is one of those things that may help the odds a bit. But anyone who believes that ATGATT is some type of guarantee or even likelihood of little to no injury is in for a surprise.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 12:10 PM   #15
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i agree it's all in the mentality of the rider the risk is there 100% but it's up to the rider on how well they want to survive that risk.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 12:14 PM   #16
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I don't really agree. I've been riding 25+ years and haven't always thought about being safe. Hell, if I really wanted to be safe I wouldn't be riding motorcycles; those things are dangerous.
I don't agree with that statement. Motorcycles are not dangerous. It is the people riding the bike that makes it dangerous by the actions that they take while on the bike. You can choose to be safe or be dangerous by not taking precautions to minimize the inherent dangers.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 12:21 PM   #17
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I hear the same thing over and over. People telling me not to get a bike, they are death traps...etc. However life has to involve some risk, otherwise there is no reward. Sure i could be a hermit and live till 120 years old, but whats the point? Now im not saying it doesnt freak me out, because it really does.

I think that fear helps me concentrate and make my riding experience the most enjoyable and safest i possibly can. Yes there is risk, everything has a degree of risk, its how you deal with it and lower the odds of injury that matters.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 12:37 PM   #18
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I don't really agree. I've been riding 25+ years and haven't always thought about being safe. Hell, if I really wanted to be safe I wouldn't be riding motorcycles; those things are dangerous.

Everything you do in life comes with a degree of risk. It is up to each of us to choose how much risk we are willing to accept. To the majority of people in this country motorcycle riding comes with an unacceptable degree of risk. We are in the minority.

I feel that the ATGATT mantra while good in concept can have negative consequences. Young people who already feel invincible have even more of a cavalier attitude when they are suited up in their ATGATT armor.

The real key to safety is understanding the risks. Take a corner too fast and cross the line with a Semi coming the other way and ATGATT or not, you're dead.

This video is one of the best I've seen at explaining some of the risks of riding. I wish there were more of them and a way for every new rider to see them.

Link to original page on YouTube.

ATGATT Nazis may start flaming me now.

That video is INTENSE. What's sick is that I see people on the Southern State Parkway here on Long Island speeding along at 160 MPH around curves and makes me wonder why, why they do that when they know they could be dead or severely injured in a matter of seconds.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 12:40 PM   #19
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I don't agree with that statement. Motorcycles are not dangerous. It is the people riding the bike that makes it dangerous by the actions that they take while on the bike. You can choose to be safe or be dangerous by not taking precautions to minimize the inherent dangers.
I totally agree. A lot of the riders around here are too busy trying to do wheelies and speed super fast. At the same time, there are those freak accidents that happen even when you are safe and prepared. I do believe though, that if you have a smart mentality about riding, and your not concerned with doing silly stunts and going mega fast, that you will be better off.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 12:42 PM   #20
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If we based our decisions on the Southern State Parking Lot, I'd have to stop driving.. maybe even walking... that is a horrible place to travel on anything.. you would be amazed at how nice that road is early on the weekends... almost relaxing.... people are either going 50 in the left or 80 in the right.. lol
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Old February 20th, 2010, 12:54 PM   #21
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You could always go to the nearest Harley dealer and take the Riders Edge course, it should still be given on a nice low seat Buell Blast which has about the same horse power as a Ninja 250 but probably has a slightly lower center of gravity so it is nice and easy to ride. Cost will be about the same and as far as I know at the end of passing the course you walk away with a license (well the paperwork to go to the DMV to get your license anyway).

As far as what bike to get first goes, I started on a 600 and managed to stay alive, if I was to do it again I'd find something smaller and lighter. I did take my test on a YSR50 which made the maneuvers more than simple because it is so small and light (and stupid fun to ride too). I think you could do a lot worse than the 250 for a first machine, not sure if you could do too much better as there are few and far between for suggestions. If manufacturers had good 400cc sport bikes, those would be great starters and handle way up to higher power demands perfectly. A 4 cylinder 250 with like 45 horses would be pretty close to perfect too.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 01:33 PM   #22
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I don't agree with that statement. Motorcycles are not dangerous. It is the people riding the bike that makes it dangerous by the actions that they take while on the bike. You can choose to be safe or be dangerous by not taking precautions to minimize the inherent dangers.
You admit that motorcycles have "inherent dangers" that you can only minimize. Riding a motorcycle from point A to point B is inherently more dangerous on a motorcycle then say in a car. It is a risk we choose to take. Through our actions we can reduce, but not eliminate those risks. As I originally said if I was really interested in safety I would stick to my car.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 01:36 PM   #23
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i concur with most of what has already been said. life is too short, everything we do involves risk. if you spend all your time worrying about the this could happen or that could happen, you'll never experience the joy of doing pretty much anything. i am brand new to riding, but have wanted a bike all my life. i have no experience whatsoever. TAKE THE COURSE, and ATGATT - anything can happen at anytime. choosing to participate in an activity with some degree of risk, as well as taking the necessary steps to minimize those risks is being responsible. choosing to ignore the risks and behave recklessly is another matter all together. as i get older i've started to realize that if your ignore your passions, you'll never be happy. am i scared on my ninja? no. do i have a healthy concern for my ability to hurt myself and be hurt by others? absolutely. stay safe, go slow, learn, and like its already been said, RIDE YOUR RIDE.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 01:49 PM   #24
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Hi Kerry, it's great that you found us. The 250 is an amazing bike and a perfect choice for your first ride. I would hold off on buying one until you've had your MSF, as you might not like it as much as you think after the full 3-day course, but I doubt that. It took months for my perma-grin to wear off, but the fact that I had a wedding not long after really helped with that too
Go check out the gear forum so that you can get properly geared up before you hit the road. You don't mention what kind of gear your friend was wearing, but stereotypically based on the fact that you are hanging with RR's, I'm going to guess it was not much. When we preach ATGATT, that means a helmet, riding jacket, riding pants, motorcycle-specific boots, riding gloves, the whole 9 yards. I would also advise finding a group that's not the RR's to ride with at least as you are starting out. From what I've seen, they have some undesireable behaviors like wheelies and racing that might get you in trouble as you are learning to ride.
As for your friend's attitude about you not getting a bike. It's hard to explain, but it really messes with your head when you go down, and he's probably still processing it for himself. He obviously cares about you and he just doesn't want to see anything bad happen. Now that he's been down himself, it makes him realize his mortality a bit more and recognize the really bad things that CAN happen.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 02:01 PM   #25
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That video is INTENSE. What's sick is that I see people on the Southern State Parkway here on Long Island speeding along at 160 MPH around curves and makes me wonder why, why they do that when they know they could be dead or severely injured in a matter of seconds.


It's funny you should say that because I know and have known several people that ride like that. They know full well what the risks are but have no concept of what they are doing at that particular moment. I know, sounds like a load of crap rite? When you ride these big horse power bikes there is a certain feeling of intoxication that comes with doing 160+ and you have to be able to control yourself. If you can't ride with your head screwed on tight when you are on a big HP bike then it's time to sell the bike and give up the sport, or step back and take a look at the reasons why you ride. If it's just for speed then you should be riding on a track or not at all. Thats just my opinion.
Also there was another post (sorry I am new here and don't know everyones names) but the person was talking about being scared of the bike making him a better rider. I am very sorry to hear that but being scared makes you a dangerous rider IMO, not because you are a bad rider but because you are so busy being scared that you don't have the sense of mind to make a spit second choice in an emergency. Respect for your machine is what makes you a better rider not fear.
A person needs to ride alert all the time because unless you are being stupid it is the other person you need to watch out for. I have been in several situations where I could have been seriously hurt or even killed because some guy in a cage wasn't paying attention to what he/she was doing and didn't see me.

I am sorry for such a long post but this is a topic that is very important to me because I see way to many young riders turned off riding because some idiot told they will get killed on a bike. Those young people will never know the true joy of riding a motorcycle because of other people.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 02:46 PM   #26
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The first thing before you go out and buy a bike is to take the MSF course. Not saying your friend's not taking that course helped him have an accident, but maybe if he took it, he wouldn't have had an accident. Maybe he would have known what to do when his rear wheel let loose and then grabbed and he highsided. Maybe he would have learned how not to get into that situation.There's nothing like learning it right the first time and being supervised in your training by good instructors, instead of learning from someone else like your father and going out for a ride only with a permit. It's much harder to unlearn bad habits later then to learn them right the first time. Not that his father is bad at teaching, but there are things in that course that most older riders still do not know, are not aware of, and just because you have ridden for years and haven't gotten into an accident, doesn't necessarily mean you were well trained or you have been doing it right.
At an MSF course you will get a chance to ride on a few bikes, or at least see a few different bikes and sit on them. They are usually all 250cc's - either Honda Rebels, Suzuki GZ250's, Yamaha Virago 250's. Don't get fixated ONLY on the Ninja 250 as a starter bike. The Ninja is a good choice (I have one), but it is a sport bike, and that's the reason I bought it (for something different than my larger Suzuki S50) - the others are more mini cruisers/street bikes, and have different riding positions (more upright), and different handling characteristics that may suit a newbie better (are more forgiving). They also have many more aftermarket options available - crash bars/engine guards. saddle bags and luggage, windshields, etc., so you have to think about what you want the bike for and how you are going to use it. Don't sell any of them short, don't avoid looking at any of them. They are all excellent starter bikes and are almost bulletproof reliable if properly maintained. I started out on a GZ250 and it is an incredible bike, 65 mpg, reliable, simple to maintain with only 1 air cooled cylinder, easy to handle, looks like a much larger bike. For a first bike, look at a good used one of any of those I mentioned, or the newer Suzuki TU250 (fuel injected single cylinder) - you will save a lot of money, (especially if you drop it or dump it early on,) and you will probably look to trade up in a year or two if you are still interested in riding long term. And if you do decide to get a bike, budget for a good full face helmet, armored jacket, good pair of gloves and boots, and maybe armored riding pants.
Get educated, get trained, get safety gear and a good smaller bike, then go out and have many years of fun, knowing you are doing it right.Don't let somebody else's bad example put you off.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 02:49 PM   #27
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Hi Kerry, it's great that you found us. The 250 is an amazing bike and a perfect choice for your first ride. I would hold off on buying one until you've had your MSF, as you might not like it as much as you think after the full 3-day course, but I doubt that. It took months for my perma-grin to wear off, but the fact that I had a wedding not long after really helped with that too
Go check out the gear forum so that you can get properly geared up before you hit the road. You don't mention what kind of gear your friend was wearing, but stereotypically based on the fact that you are hanging with RR's, I'm going to guess it was not much. When we preach ATGATT, that means a helmet, riding jacket, riding pants, motorcycle-specific boots, riding gloves, the whole 9 yards. I would also advise finding a group that's not the RR's to ride with at least as you are starting out. From what I've seen, they have some undesireable behaviors like wheelies and racing that might get you in trouble as you are learning to ride.
As for your friend's attitude about you not getting a bike. It's hard to explain, but it really messes with your head when you go down, and he's probably still processing it for himself. He obviously cares about you and he just doesn't want to see anything bad happen. Now that he's been down himself, it makes him realize his mortality a bit more and recognize the really bad things that CAN happen.
Yeah I 100% agree. I asked him if he was going to ride again and he said "yeah, I'll ride, but that is just my own stupidity." I don't think it's stupid to rides bikes though. This friend actually wasn't one of my RR friends, this guy is just a guy that likes to ride, he said he was just taking his bike around the block to warm it up since it's been so cold and what not. I'm pretty sure he said he was going 15 or 20 MPH, he also said "If I were going 10 MPH more I'd probably be drinking out of a tube." I asked if he was wearing full gear and he said he was, helmet, boots, gloves, jacket- everything. I thought it could have been an issue with his bike, I asked if there was anything wrong with the bike but he said no... he just said the back wheel kicked.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 02:54 PM   #28
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The first thing before you go out and buy a bike is to take the MSF course. Not saying your friend's not taking that course helped him have an accident, but maybe if he took it, he wouldn't have had an accident. Maybe he would have known what to do when his rear wheel let loose and then grabbed and he highsided. Maybe he would have learned how not to get into that situation.There's nothing like learning it right the first time and being supervised in your training by good instructors, instead of learning from someone else like your father and going out for a ride only with a permit.
That's what I was thinking! I remember him telling me that he didn't want to take the MSF course because he went to Tramas (the MSF course place) and just had a one hour private lesson. He also said "yeah after the 1 hour lesson you will know everything you need to know." And I couldn't help but be like "are you kidding?" there is NO WAY you can learn everything you need to know in an hour. I think it would be 100% beneficial for him to take the MSF course and actually be a licensed rider, for his own saftey!
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Old February 20th, 2010, 03:01 PM   #29
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Good advice from everyone so far. You will notice that a lot of the members here are very mature and it's good that you found this site.

When you get your bike, make sure to stick around the board, post ride reports, etc. I suggest you even do your own wrenching as it will get you to know your bike more. Oh, and make sure to post on the "Girls on Bikes ROCK!!" thread. You look cute on your avatar, we need more pics of you.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 03:11 PM   #30
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Besides that course, which is just for starters, you, must practice, practice, then practice some more - in parking lots, school yards, on the street, It takes a long time to really become proficient and develop awareness to stay out of trouble. Probably a few thousand miles and a year or so. Most advanced rider courses after the MSF won't even take you without that much experience, and I'm not talking a track school, I talking about the next step after the MSF. And you should continue educating yourself by reading Proficient Motorcycling, and then, More Proficient Motorcycling, (by David Hough), the 2 bibles of riding. Etc, etc, etc, educating yourself and practice is the right way to do this, and you will enjoy it more when you develop all the skills.
By the way, I used to live in Lake success, just over the Queens/Nassau County border near the LIE, the longest parking lot in the world. Where on LI are you?
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Old February 20th, 2010, 03:20 PM   #31
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I had a Yamaha R6 when I bought my 09 250R. I just found that the 250 fits my riding style better. Several months later I sold the R6. Many people move up to a bigger bike , I actually bought a smaller one. I found that its 10x more fun to ride. Do I miss the power of my R6? Yes, sometimes I do. The difference is night and day. I do not regret my decision. I had both in my garage for 8 months. I chose to keep the 250.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 03:43 PM   #32
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In many states, like here in Florida, you cannot operate a motorcycle unless you have an endorsement on your driver's license that you've taken this course and passed.
The education and practice of skills never ends, and when you get good at it is really when you begin to enjoy yourself, when you know you are doing it right, and it feels good.
One of the things that could have happened to your friend to cause his accident is something so simple he may not have even been aware of it. Tires are really slippery when they are cold and have very little grip on the road 'till the rubber warms up, which can be after only a few miles of riding or as long as 10 min. Whether or not he hit a patch of ice or sand or anything in the road doesn't matter, the road could have been bone clean, he could have gone down just making a nice gentle turn if his tires were stiff and cold, and/or by applying the throttle that could have made him lose it even faster because he had very poor traction. But I guess he would know that because his father taught him to ride, and that would have been covered completely in a one hour course. Things just don't happen, they are usually caused by human error in these situations. Basically he went down, not only from lack of knowledge, but because of his attitude. Don't let that happen to you.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 03:48 PM   #33
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the 250r is my first bike , and im 30...all the ppl around me are saying im crazy, don't get a bike, but hey, if its your passion , go for it...and always wear your gears
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Old February 20th, 2010, 04:00 PM   #34
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Kerry...I'm here in Nassau too and if you're gonna get a bike understand that riding without a fall is learned and earned and you got to ride a lot to get safe. Weekend hops to Port Jeff or Orient or up and down Jones Beach won't do it. Riding in a parkway parade with a club won't do it...hanging out in Bellmore on Friday night won't do it either. In the beginning, you have to force yourself to ride, to put miles on the bike. It's a skill or craft or something like that and it has to be practiced all by yourself. I guarantee that if you spend the time teaching yourself by riding by yourself you will develop the skill very fast. I'm not bad mouthing MSF or anything but there's no easy way to learning a skill at the basic level. IMHO, of course.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 04:11 PM   #35
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Another thing to keep in mind is that no matter who you choose to ride with, never ride beyond what makes you comfortable just to keep up. Always ride at your pace, never let theres dictate what yours will be. There are a group of four of us that ride together alot, 2 of us having been riding almost our whole lives and the other 2, well one has been riding a harley along time but stared into sportbikes last fall and the other just started riding last year. When we go play in the canyon, myself and the other guy that has been riding along time will go ahead (once in a while) and play at our pace and the other 2 trail behind. We stop and wait for them and then and it's all good. Most of the time just one of us will go ahead and the other will ride sweep behind the other 2 that way they are never left alone.
Sorry just throwing out an example, thats all.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 05:42 PM   #36
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Kerry, life is dangerous. If I were you I'd never leave the house. Don't go near the kitchen or bathroom either (too dangerous). Be aware that people die in bed also so don't go to bed either (at least not to sleep).

There was an accident in the paper the other day about a bicyclist who was hit and killed. The road isn't a place for bicycles but it's a law that you can't ride on the sidewalk (like when we were kids).

Once in a while people get hurt or killed in auto accidents also. Head on accidents are the worst except when someone runs a light and nails a car right in the drivers door (or the rear door where little kids sit).

Sometimes in Florida, and other places that have older people, you read about an older driver crashing into a store front or taking out a few people at a bus stop. That is sad but it happens when people are to old to drive but won't give up their license.

I think there are a number of people who die from smoking, the flu, and various other diseases ( some even from cancer).

I remember when I was young and used to ski all winter. You would see someone getting escorted to the bottom on a sled, with broken legs and arms almost everyday.

To get to the point, life is dangerous, do whatever you want, just try to do it as safely as you can. Don't let people talk you out of anything (or talk you into anything).
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Old February 20th, 2010, 06:40 PM   #37
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I have had a motorcycle endorsement on my license since 1958 (before a lot of the people on this forum were born) Everything has its risks. Driving a cage has its risks. Motorcycles have their risks. If one rides smart, the risks are minimized. Wearing good protective gear is important. Do not skimp on a helmet--get the absolutely best you can afford. Do some reading. there are lots of books out there about riding well and safely--Code`s books come to mind. Above all, prepare. Study and learn. Take an MSF course. This is where a lot of people on this forum will disagree with me: I do not think for one moment that motorcycling is inherently dangerous. In my opinion, the people who promote this notion are motivated by self-agrandisment--posing that "I must be tough to ride a bike" Bull! True, in an encounter between a motorcycle and a car or truck, a motorcycle will lose. By the same token, a Mini Convertible colliding with a 3/4 Ton Pickup would also lose. The bottomn line is education and practice. Sure, we are tempted to give the throttle a full twist, and take off like a bat out of hell--but why"? Is it because we can do it? What is so bad about discipline--keeping oneself in control? Are we some sort of a wimp if we follow speed limits (sort of - within 5mph)? I enjoy motorcycling. I have been riding for years and have done two Trans America Tours (one on a 250) I have had an absolute blast and at the ripe age of 69 still enjoy the sport. As a surprise to those who say that motorcycling is inherently dangerous---in 300,000mi. I have had no crashes or violations (tickets) That also holds true for the cage--which I have only been driving since 1970. It is, in my humble opinion, all about self discipline.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 07:05 PM   #38
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Any motor sports has its risk, and the driver IS the biggest factor of accident.

Take snowmobiling for instance here, dozens of people die from them every winter in the province, and none of them are because of cars, they either hit a tree (seriously) or crash through frozen lakes, the rare occasion they get hit by a car crossing a road but then again it's not because of the cager...often because they are drunk, some are just riding too fast or taking risk(and losing).

Be very careful and be alert of your surrounding, you can seriously decrease any accident risk...just be a good rider !
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Old February 20th, 2010, 07:09 PM   #39
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Remy, You are spot on.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 09:37 PM   #40
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Stop thinking and do it. If it really is a passion of yours, you'll regret not doing it. In most instances, that's probably worse than death.
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