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Old March 12th, 2013, 12:41 AM   #41
Somchai
Freedom for Germany
 
Location: This World
Join Date: May 2011

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R-FI

Posts: A lot.
Since I found the shown mapping for a 300 Ninja in the net I think it's good to talk a lil bit about this feature and therefore I got Google to translate the following german website with informations about mapping and also especially selfmapping: http://www.bdperformance.net/autotune_selfmapping.html

In some areas it's looking like a "bouncy castle" (I'd mark a few, but please look yourself)
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 -5 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 2 -4 -2 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 -8 -2 -6 -1 -1 -1 -5 -5
0 0 -7 -7 -4 -1 -8 -2 -5 -5
0 0 -3 -4 0 2 -3 -2 -7 -7
0 0 -3 -2 0 2 4 7 -8 0
0 0 -3 1 3 5 9 9 4 3
0 0 0 5 5 6 9 14 12 9
0 0 0 5 6 5 9 12 12 9
0 0 0 2 4 5 6 9 9 6
0 0 0 -1 2 6 5 6 6 4
0 0 0 -4 1 2 5 7 0 4
0 0 0 -7 -6 1 1 2 -3 3
0 0 0 -7 -9 -1 -1 4 0 2
0 0 0 -7 -8 -4 1 3 1 3
0 0 0 -7 -7 1 4 7 -7 6
0 0 0 -7 -8 3 4 2 0 3
0 0 0 0 -1 3 4 -2 2 2
0 0 0 -1 0 4 5 1 0 3
0 0 0 6 4 2 7 0 -1 2
0 0 0 3 3 2 6 0 0 3
0 0 0 0 2 2 6 1 -3 6
0 0 0 0 1 0 5 2 -7 4
0 0 0 0 2 0 4 2 -9 3
0 0 0 0 1 -1 -2 1 -10 5
0 0 0 0 0 0 -1 3 -7 3
0 0 0 0 0 -3 0 1 -7 -1
0 0 0 0 0 0 -2 5 2 3
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 -3 1
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 -3 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 -1 3 -2 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 -1 0 -2 5
0 0 0 0 0 0 -1 -1 1 3
0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 7
0 0 0 0 0 0 1 -1 8 5
0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 6 3
0 0 0 0 0 0 1 -2 6 3
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 6 3
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 4 1
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 2 1
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 1 -1
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 4 1
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 6 2
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 4 3
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 4 2
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 4 2
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 4 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 -5 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 2 -4 -2 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 -8 -2 -6 -1 -1 -1 -5 -5
0 0 -7 -7 -4 -1 -8 -2 -5 -5
0 0 -3 -4 0 2 -3 -2 -7 -7
0 0 -3 -2 0 2 4 7 -8 0
0 0 -3 1 3 5 9 9 4 3
0 0 0 5 5 6 9 14 7 9
0 0 0 5 6 5 9 12 7 9
0 0 0 2 4 5 6 9 9 6
0 0 0 -1 2 6 5 6 6 12
0 0 0 -4 1 2 5 7 8 12
0 0 0 -7 -6 1 1 2 5 11
0 0 0 -7 -9 -1 -1 4 8 10
0 0 0 -7 -8 -4 1 3 9 11
0 0 0 -7 -7 1 4 7 1 14
0 0 0 -7 -8 3 4 2 8 16
0 0 0 0 -1 3 4 -2 10 17
0 0 0 -1 0 4 5 1 8 11
0 0 0 6 4 2 7 0 7 8
0 0 0 3 3 2 6 0 17 10
0 0 0 0 2 2 6 1 14 13
0 0 0 0 1 0 5 2 10 11
0 0 0 0 2 0 4 2 8 10
0 0 0 0 1 -1 -2 1 7 12
0 0 0 0 0 0 -1 3 10 10
0 0 0 0 0 -3 0 1 10 6
0 0 0 0 0 0 -2 5 11 10
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 6 8
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 6 7
0 0 0 0 0 0 -1 3 7 7
0 0 0 0 0 0 -1 0 7 12
0 0 0 0 0 0 -1 -1 10 10
0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 11
0 0 0 0 0 0 1 -1 8 9
0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 6 7
0 0 0 0 0 0 1 -2 6 7
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 6 7
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 4 5
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 2 5
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 1 3
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 4 5
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 6 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 4 1
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 4 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 4 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 4 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0


Autotune / Self mapping ...

Marketing gimmick or highlight?

For some time now holds more electronics and technology to move into the area of ​​set-up work for injection.
What with expensive professional equipment, such as MoTeC, Magneti Marelli, etc., is a data logging system, in use, is now as supposedly fully automated system for relatively little money as an additive or auxiliary device in the most common and popular peripherals such as Power Commander, Rapid Bike, Bazzaz, AFR Tuner etc. offered.
What can these systems? "Autotune and self mapping - Blessing or Curse"
We have considered these units closer and based on its own testing, sound experience and present opinions from customers based on analysis of their experiences. We are neither importer nor a pure online retailer. Of course, we like to sell products, but we want fair to point out to our customers on the pros and cons of these systems.
It is in this analysis does not even go to see who is the best system calls his own or may call, but rather the actual function in the light of the practical applications.
Disregarded remain the v.g. Systems, which are used for many years in the professional success. These systems are in price structure, due to the more extensive equipment and facilities much higher and can not be compared with the logically located relatively new on the market competitive systems.
Also not considered here are the pricing differences, combined with the available options. Here is the price range of about 298,00 EUR (Dynojet Autotune kit) goes to 1.500,00 EUR (Dimsport Rapid Bike Tuning Bike Kit).
Advance the systems are all offered by their manufacturers as "easy" use and absolutely "reliable" tool to create a custom injection-map (mapping) quickly and inexpensively, without scrutiny, can. Hence the names like "autotune" and "self-mapping" to clarify that the maps (maps) for use with systems automatically and virtually create them play and everything in normal driving, eg through the Westerwald or wherever.
Alone from these statements can be identified already some doubts, considering that an American leader for additional injection modules, which themselves developed their own test facilities, this offering and also sells and maintains specialized technical operations and now offers its own product, which is the livelihood of these firms themselves extracts and their own ideology and the associated test stand-up work so absurd.
Other arguments, as loud as: Always the perfect mapping in different circumstances, such as weather changes, different riding areas and altitudes, as well as recent changes in the periphery of the bike, let the prospective customers quickly think of the jack of all trades and they should thus believe that here you have reinvented the wheel.

What is now behind it and how consistent are those advertising claims?
The answer can be so not easy. At least, some of the testimonials that have such systems are not a good experience and ultimately approached for map creation to us.
To make this topic understandable to the lay persons to some extent subjective and objective assessment, it requires one time being easy entry into the world of technical systems. Finally, one should also understand what one has to do it. After all, it lacks the accompanying descriptions and operating systems, with the recognition that it seems that every user of the system must be well studied motor technician.



Therefore, it is not just the individual points to be clarified:
- How do the systems?
- What conditions must be met for proper operation?
- Can any deal with the systems as simple or it requires expertise?
- What are the pros and cons of each system?
- You really need any more scrutiny, but only a basic understanding of the topic to develop in order to ultimately decide for themselves, whether and to what system you choose?.

Basically you will find also our enlightening information in the category: Individual adjustment and important advice in this matter of course as valid application.

We repeat, therefore, only the main points:
An ignition and injection characteristic field is designed by the manufacturer for each model motorcycle, then the respective laws, such as Homologation adjusted, and on the ECU (Engine Control Unit) - or whatever may be the internal name (there's still this CPU, CDI, BMSK, etc.) are stored. These maps are either directly or by someone else through direct intervention and programming or changeable only by the insertion of additional add-on modules, such as Bazzaz Performance, Dynojet Power Commander, Dimsport RapidBike, influence LeoVince FAST Fuel System, etc. in their configuration.
Since the mentioned systems affect the function of the "autotune" or "self-mapping" only limited to the injection map and do not affect the ignition map, we focus on further explanation only on the effect of the injection parameters.
Once the idea could arise: A car is already equipped for a long time with this kind of systems by the factory and it works perfectly well there.
This needs to be answered, that a car ignition map works with many more parameters and a variety of other electronic features, which currently in a motorcycle are not available and even for relatively little money in the form of such an autotune / self mapping system to be upgraded as much work as well as they will.
To mention just a small recordable want, it already requires a programmable ECU a blow from MoTeC M800 with appropriate hardware and software, which is used in the range of approximately from 6,000.00 EUR as a base model and then car offers similar opportunities .
We therefore remain at the current condition of a modern motorcycle engine: Equipped with fuel injection and the corresponding sensors, such as Air pressure sensor, temperature sensor, water temperature sensor, oxygen sensor, etc. etc.
Stop Stop! Oxygen Sensor?
Oh, we already have a lambda sensor, the one or the other might be thinking. Why it does not function exactly as the car ignition map also available with oxygen sensor control?
We now only interested in the difference between the two types of probes.
The single probe / jump lambda sensor, as used in the bike works, in principle, similar to a broadband probe (power generation), but is designed so that it has very little information as to the ECU. Either the composition of the mixture is in a predetermined range by the manufacturer or not. The probe used for this purpose only as an information source. The manufacturer or the ECU programmer has specified for the control region only a few parameters:
First At what throttle position (from - to angle)
Second At what speed (from - to revolutions pm)
A few other parameters such as engine temperature, etc. We should not be here further interest.
Let us as an example of a manufacturer ECU programming with lambda probe: control range is 0 to 20% throttle opening and rpm from 1100 to 6700. - Fixed Lambda value is "1".
In plain English, this means:
If the vehicle with a throttle position (including throttle opening angle - short DK) from 0 (neutral) to 20% DK and in the speed range from 1100 to 6700 rpm is moving, then the oxygen sensor and ECU will ensure that over the measured exhaust an AFR of about . 14.7 or lambda value is observed from 1.
Beyond, i.e. outside the specified range, this scheme is (off, so to speak) is not active and can then fix anything.
So far so good, now the question arises: Can not you use this probe to map creation / tuning etc?
No, you can not, because of the range and speed of the probe is not sufficient. Other wells in this matter does not matter now, and would take too long. For the inquisitive recommended, however the study elsewhere, such as wikipedia, etc.
In summary it can be stated:
Simple probe = fixed range will support as the control ECU.
Broadband probe = can be used for map control variable for each area.
Other questions that arise at this point is equal:
What happens to the standard oxygen sensor if you do not use this for an autotune / self mapping system?
You have to turn it off and complete control, since a new or different map used in the vg control range would not be make. Reminder: The control range is fixed and as long as the standard probe is installed, the control is also made as to whether self mapping with autotune / or not is no matter here.
How to disable the function?
Depending on your vehicle, there are different ways to get the appropriate control to override. At this point would be a listing of all opportunities to extensive and we recommend if required direct contact with us.
Now we come to the function of a "autotune / self mapping" system?
The systems work accordingly with a wideband sensor and give existing and measured exhaust emissions in the form of AFR or Lambda on to each module, and then configure, according to previously determined new values ​​within a table structure, the required changes in the standard injection values.
This table structure includes respectively the throttle valve opening angle on the one hand and the engine speed on the other side in order to set in a corresponding deviation of the new values.
Normally, these values ​​should arise "under load" are measured and processed, since the exhaust gas values ​​change in the state or roll on gas removal.
In plain language this means that the standard injection values ​​by the set target values, which are of course the system must specify by programming changes, and as a "map" created or maintained in the continuous use as a working condition. Ideally then a permanent condition of the load condition. Let's leave here but also against the outside.
But where do you want to know what values ​​are now perfect for my bike?
Legitimate question, but what really is no simple answer. Anyway do not want to reach as far as the satisfaction of the interested parties of such a system, the optimum. Are considered generally published values ​​following information (shown here as a lambda values):

Common area for cars - petrol engines:
AFR (commonly used English definition) and lambda are therefore only computational variables by the ratio of a combustion mixture, here designate air / fuel mixture easier.
The wideband sensor is able to see because of its technical structure and function within milliseconds response time, in what ratio is the current mixture and pass this as a signal to a display instrument or controller for further processing. The measurement and evaluation of the values ​​are continuously and thus this type of probe to be used to control an injection limited.
Due? Why only partially?
But also later in the "exhaust gas composition and placement of a broadband probe".
Also the fact that the measurement in the exhaust so only after the actual combustion process takes place and you look this asks what it uses a controller in hindsight to know how it was before, we have also left out, as modern systems have corrective opportunities so the information already arrive at a suitable place and time.
And that's where we put on with further education!
To distinguish this system uses two types of oxygen sensors.
First, the broadband lambda probe - exact terminology we have the following description for the sake of simplicity of description just go away - which as the name suggests in a broad band or range and very fast (milliseconds) can regulate anything.
What it governs and how, more on that later.
Secondly, the single oxygen sensor (lambda probe jump). This does not govern in a wide area and not as fast, but only serves as a fixed control unit, which also - in simple terms - has only two control areas. Let's say this: "out" or "at". Just like a normal switch.
These normal switch is found on his motorcycle as a lambda sensor in the most manifold system or connection to the exhaust pipe. In this form, there are also different versions again, as for example 2 cable or 4-wire probe or with large or smaller thread. But that should not matter for the time being, because the function is the same as always.
What or how now regulate these oxygen sensors?
The broadband probe, as they are also found in the autotune / self mapping systems or a test bed specialist, adjusts a voltage (volts). This voltage is generated because of the technical construction of this probe to the residual oxygen content (air) present in the exhaust gas and reacts according to the amount / proportion of these "air" a varying high voltage is generated. This voltage moves in a predefined range, and is then dubbed called lambda value and displayed in a fixed table.
Differences arise from this even in the names AFR (Air-Fuel Ratio = air-fuel ratio) or simply "lambda". To understand both "names" can you can use the following list as a conversion table.
This results e.g. at a lambda value of 1, the value of AFR as 14.7. It means that 14.7 kg air (about 9,000 liters) to get 1 kilo of gasoline air / fuel mixture.
The value of 13.0 AFR (lambda = 0.88) would therefore be 13.0 kg air to 1 kilo of gasoline.

Range of engines:


The 2 cylinder V-engine range it looks even more dramatic because even the basic maps per cylinder due to the cylinder assembly and the associated mostly opposing inlet regions (Airboxform, velocity stacks, etc.) are so different that it is partly at Einstellversuchen with only a lambda probe to no autotune / self mapping changes or comes to worse results, since both values ​​of the cylinder (in the same period one cyl. lean the other cyl. bold) show higher than average.
Now back to the real question: What values ​​are now optimized for map creation?
Each value with which the bike runs just perfectly. This value can be different and comes either from the experience of an experienced tuner and / or test operations or that he is determined by measuring the values ​​depending on engine type. And there are different optimal values ​​in the four-cylinder is the area (small or large 600 1000 engine), just as there are differences in the number and arrangement of cylinders (3 cylinder in-line, 2-cylinder V-Series or boxer, 4 cylinder V, etc.).
Other important differences in the form of changes to the engine by engine tuning, valve timing, ignition, etc., are not even mentioned here yet immensely important.
The innocent autotune / self mapping user can determine its optimum only by trial and error, if it is capable of a change of a few percent when driving also felt.
A generally accepted rule of thumb circulates through the land, see earlier in the text, but this is also to be understood only as the default and is the optimum harmlessly wide.
This diagram shows both cylinders simultaneously measured on a Ducati 1198th
Conspicuous thereto the position of a poor Lambdasondenabgriffs, which has the consequence, the corresponding exhaust interference arises, the measured value varies widely and thus caused false readings.
This makes it difficult to vote more so because the values ​​do not remain stable and one with a
autotune system has almost no chance for this cylinder a halfway useful mapping is required to prepare.
To this end we recall the measurement system with a broadband lambda probe and its function.
Here, only the measured residual oxygen content in the exhaust gas, which is available as a lambda value and parameters.
Listening and reading now of values, such as an AFR of about 13.0 (La 0.86-0.88) is good for full power and 13.8 (La 0.94) is good for the cruiser mode and 14.2 (La 0.97) can be taken as a good fuel-saving mode, which can be just as good 'in troubled waters "mention fishing, particularly so as there's additionally the actual exhaust gas species have been mentioned, such as HC, CO and CO2.
Finally, the exhaust not only from residual oxygen and black smoke.
So, before we can answer the real question you have to answer the following questions.
What exhaust types are there and what are important for map creation and why is it still just a wideband sensor and AFR / Lambda
handled?
As major exhaust species for optimum performance graph creation apply HC, CO, CO2 and O2. They are in a proper ratio in the exhaust gas include, when an engine is to function optimally.
Therefore, the to be optimized characteristic fields, according to a basic set, which one starts needed so that the motorcycle in general, and is also not only created using a method of measurement according to AFR or lambda, but much more accurately shown for the multi-gas technique in which all types of the exhaust gas composition, optimized. This lets you adjust ignition and injection optimally. Since this measurement technique is a further complex and expensive, the experienced technician may discharges draw an approximately optimal AFR or lambda value when the individual exhaust species were previously measured, and then to get a workable for this engine AFR / lambda value as basic information source .
Since we do not want to influence the ignition but only adjust the fuel injection, exhaust various parameters can probably be ignored. As part of this analysis is the value of HC, ie residual fuel in the exhaust. The material contained in a certain ratio HC in the exhaust indicates a good or bad combustion of the air / fuel mixture. In this adjustment, the CO considered, one obtains a reference to the "calculated" values ​​as AFR or lambda.
The pure AFR / lambda expression for the optimum process has too many risks and uncertainties than one might call it a last word.
Why? The measured residual oxygen may be more or less present and distort the actual result.
How? Let's take a sip of HC (2 cl) Bacardi and pour it into a small glass of cola then we have an effective proportion of 2 oz Bacardi in the overall mix.
We pour the same amount of Bacardi in a large glass of cola, the effective amount of 2 oz Bacardi remains true, however, is equal to the total mixture thin - you can taste it at once. ;-)
Reproduced on our gas mixture, this means the HC share with the residual oxygen in a certain proportion would actually regarded as the ideal and there is an increase in the residual oxygen content, let us say, by leaking Manifold gaskets and pipe connections, timing and / or non-optimal valve overlap / scavenging losses etc . then the AFR / lambda value would indicate a supposedly lean attitude and autotune / self mapping system would perform the function of the enrichment, although this should not be the case.
Next step the consideration read as well as in our voting information elsewhere, what happens when multiple cylinders and only one oxygen sensor in a manifold pipe, collectors and / or connecting tube? (Depending on the exhaust system different positions and places for a lambda sensor are possible).
It is measured when the exhaust is the probe. Placed in a collector tube with 4 cylinders, it means that all 4 cylinders form a gas mixture.
Further implication of this:
What happens when the 4 cylinder 1 cylinder running lean and fat 1 cylinder? The two different current cylinder lift slightly on each other in the gas mixture with a slight tendency to lean value, because of the residual oxygen is also a bold running cylinder in the total mixture is not necessarily measured proportionately less and this makes it the meager average of all 4 cylinders.
Different if only 1 cylinder runs slightly lean and 3 cyl. too fat moderate. Then outweighs the massively richer content and it will settle in the lean direction, which is not for the thin cylinder anyway necessarily means an enrichment in terms of optimum.
Most dramatic consequences when only 1 cylinder running leaner than any other and the base map is seen as too fat. Then is the autotune / self mapping system decide to lose weight in correct direction and the lean cylinder is still running leaner than it previously was.
The case of a motorcycle no absolute 4 equivalent emission ratios are available, is no secret.
See also the following example diagram of a 4-cylinder Yamaha R1 2006, measured at the same time and each cylinder shown individually.


As the following examples are given diagrams of various types of motors, which as a benchmark had propagated the value of AFR from 12.8 to 13.2 - at full load and 100% throttle opening - which eg as adjusting base is specified by a "autotune" to Maperstellung Manufacturer:

Comment on this: A min. Change of only 2% in the direction of fat means a power increase of 2-3 hp.

Comment on this: A change of 5% in mean lean towards a performance increase of up to 5 HP.


Comment on this:

A change of 4% in the direction of fat, or 4% lean show no effect, which means that the lean value is considered ideal and give what more fuel than is necessary!
Conclusion: thereon can be seen that the values ​​specifications of Autotune systems are not generally be described as optimal, if can be detected in the range of 2-5% richer or leaner service changes or other changes of 8% held no power to change.
Thus, the declaration gives the answer: Each value with which the bike just runs perfectly each and every motorcycle or motor type is different.
What is now bringing a map creation and map optimization after CO/HC/CO2 technique compared to AFR and lambda sensor technology?

Here is an example of a 2-cylinder V-engine.
Green = normal AFR method using 2 oxygen sensors
Blue = corrected AFR method to optimal values ​​for this engine with 2 oxygen sensors
Red = CO/HC/CO2 method to optimal values ​​by measurement for both cylinders.
The difference between the normal AFR procedure and the best values ​​for all CO/HC/CO2 is 9 hp.
Therefore, the question can be answered by the optimum values ​​ultimately quite simple:
There are no standardized optimum values ​​for everything and everybody. Which also answers the question: Can you describe the proposals for the creation of own map "autotune" producers to be optimal? No, clear case, you can not! They can at best be regarded as basic, no more. What is to be regarded in the one or the other user to be sufficient.
Let us therefore assume that the user of an autotune / self mapping system, it does not look closely and seeks no optimum, and yet with such a system for him subjectively acceptable - though not perfect - would create mapping.
Let us further assume that there are no deviations cylinder and the exhaust system is completely sealed and can be done in these areas, no measuring errors, then more questions about the use and pitfalls within the systems.
As is already known, the systems require at least a possibility to connect to use the coming broadband lambda probe.
This question: My exhaust has been such a connection, and one can use this?
From our experience i.d.R. not because the existing standard connections guarantee an extremely high risk to produce massive false parameter.
On the one hand, these connections are sometimes not suitable, because the threads do not match types and secondly they are not always placed in the optimum exhaust flow.
Why is that?
We remember the beginning of the observation: Standard Single Oxygen Sensor - jump sensors - such as those used in all the motorcycle manufacturers, there are different versions regarding the thread size. However, the required broadband lambda probe has currently yet a common thread of M18 x 1.5. Currently there are no probes of this type with a smaller thread, from the leading manufacturers such as Bosch and NGK, available.
Continue the placement is selected, as it is quite sufficient for a simple jump probe with the limited control range. The motorcycle manufacturers do not assume that you want to use the placement of an oxygen sensor port and a map creation.
Also accessories exhausts directed the placement of the connection to the serial position. This position may - not must - have for the measurement with a broadband probe fatal.
What we show again a few examples, where the measurements were repeated several times, each throttle areas which it relates, and left out here is the tendency to be illustrated in errors:

Explanation of diagram:
Blue line: Massive incorrect measurements in the range between 6500 to 8000 rpm at a lambda probe connector Honda CBR after an autotune session.
Green Line: One of the manufactured by "autotune" characteristics as the effect of measurement error - in many areas even as "too fat" to be considered.
Red and black line: By using a different placement for the lambda probe results in a significant improvement in the measurement and the resulting voting results.


Explanation of diagram:
Red line: Massive mismeasurements Honda CBR with accessory exhaust system
Blue line: result of the session as autotune map, in many areas to be considered too fat
Green line: improved through the use of an exhaust gas oxygen sensor connector on the adapter calming valuation and map creation

Explanation of diagram:
Green line: Massive mismeasurements motorcycle Yamaha FZ1 with Serienauspuffkrümmer
Blue line: result as map with logical consistency. If the value is determined as a bouncy castle, then the autotune map be no different. The massive jumps are also seen in a Maptabelle and while driving than Bucky motorcycle logically more or less noticeable.
Red line: Here the comparison with the actual series map, measured with a special oxygen sensor exhaust adapter. As soon becomes clear that the autotune session did not work.

Explanation of diagram:
Yamaha R1 motorcycle. Each at 3 different positions for the lambda probe results performed with a autotune / self mapping system. Good to see that a minimal change of placement for the lambda probe brings rise to a different outcome.
These results are inter alia also arisen because users come from various autotune systems to us and even after a long trial period with these systems were able to achieve an acceptable result or even sometimes had a worse ride her motorcycle, as was the case in the original condition (see Example Yamaha FZ1).
For further explanation, it is worth noting that the graphs shown are all created in the period of the last few months, and that since there is the current systems.
Minimum short swings up or down within the plot line is merely represent the spikes used oxygen sensors and are designed to be normal. Depending on the degree of resolution and Auswertempfindlichkeit these irregularities have a further effect on a mapping. Massive faulty measurements and the associated incorrect Mapwerte can be seen in the accompanying Maptabelle by illogical numerical values. He-is a leap of e.g. - (Minus) 15 to + (plus) 10 500 rpm within a logical result in the table because no Serial map so totally off the mark as one can take a total of 25 points within 500 rpm seriously as a correction value.
What can be done basically a rudimentary mapping good produce?
Now that we've identified the one and / or other little problems, but this should not be an obstacle to using such a system.
In the right hands with the appropriate know-how these systems may represent an asset with respect to optimized characteristic.
However, as with all electronic systems, the error is in the detail and the sum of the error is the result. Whether this is worth it to objectively good or bad result, everyone must decide for themselves who wishes to use such a system, even if the subjective impression has an alleged improvement of driving characteristics.
Ultimately remains is to establish what options are available to minimize sources of error.
We prefer therefore to answer the question a conclusion from all the known facts: If there are differences in the cylinder area, you should find out how the different values ​​arise.
In the case of partial leaks in the exhaust system, which are still pretty easy to fix, or are the causes for the periphery of the engine, such as uneven injectors Airboxverhältnisse, etc. etc.?
With slight differences can be the target value inputs for the new injection values, considered according to the different cylinders. This however will require a lot of technical expertise and knowledge.
Likewise, it, if possible, through direct intervention in the ECU, correct or adjust the form of a well with the Zylindertrimmung optionally used to injection plug.
However, this requires a previous analysis, which is not possible without proper exhaust technology and scrutiny.
Larger differences can align with a single cylinder mapping, including but measure each cylinder individually and therefore separately for each cylinder of the autotune / self mapping is carried out.



Are there any known measurement errors arise because the position or placement of the oxygen sensor is not ideal? Then the only way is a reissuance of the measuring tap, and his hope that the new site works better.
Otherwise, you can exhaust its also with several taps lard until finally an accomplished test stand operation determines the correct position, or with the appropriate adapter technology can then create an accurate map.
Tap twice and still set to the wrong position, so it can go!
If an in autotune / self mapping method created mapping in the table then so looks like the shown below Maptabelle (this has been found on the net, and as self-created autotune map titled), it has probably been some measurement error, which was absorbed into the Map :
.


The changes we have different color markings in the table serve only for better orientation within the affected throttle column.
The information contained within the markings indicate jumps definitely points to measurement error.
Jumps of more than 5 to 8 meters, whether in the negative or positive are definitely not normal. If this is normal, then the series would map - which serves as the starting point yes - already are badly wrong, but what usually is not the case. Therefore best for the autotune action in the table to check that the new Mapwerte appear reasonably or logically have more like a bouncy castle.
Who the accompanying manuals and hacks the autotune / self mapping systems studied carefully will notice that there is already well on various measurement errors, which may occur even fair to note.
Unfortunately, however, usually mentioned only in passing - or in small print - that it is the supplied oxygen sensor is a consumable part and function properly, meaning life, is more limited than fully satisfactory. Therefore is not recommended for full-time use of the system urgently.
Normally, and in ideal conditions, we expect a test bed used for about 50 to 80 hours of sound and precise function of such a probe.
Some providers of autotune / self mapping systems even call only 30 to 50 hours. Incorrect use and, more specifically, the incorrect position of the probe during the lifetime auto tunings even reduced to a few minutes. Been instances are known that a probe has been abandoned after 30 minutes due to an incorrect application of the placement and the effect excessive Kondenzwasserkontakt their minds. The then broken and no longer repairable probe is not covered under warranty and therefore no reason for exchange or return the system.
Accordingly, it is also the answer to the question why is not the manufacturer of autotune and self mapping module and the simultaneous presence of test stand operations harm himself. Because it is intentional, and you only the inexperienced customers indulge his will to experiment on himself but likes it but in the end then it should end in a test rig and will vote. The cheap systems retains gadgets for experimental motorcyclists. A wholly owned optimum can not be used to achieve.
It was also previously with standardized Download Maps and it will therefore be the same with new and favorable autotune / self mapping systems, which indeed apply as innovation, are cheap but not necessarily as an improvement or alternative to professional scrutiny vote.
The manufacturer flutters in the first expressions of interest before the laity, that the implementation of each of these systems is in the position to make an individual adjustment of the injection mixture. That certain technical conditions and engine-specific basis for the effect to be achieved must be given, is mentioned only partially in the rather sparse instructions.
Both the driver and the road racers should a previous analysis of individual targets targets, taking into account each individual cylinder, made by a specialist. As described above, small changes in% have major implications for the mixture fraction, which may have long term disastrous consequences for the life of the engine (various manufacturers have fair, to this point).
I.e. after accounting for previously, each individual target values ​​detecting the ratio of the individual cylinders, these systems can be a supplement to the experimental users.
Of course, should be clear that systems for rd. 300.00 to 1000.00 € can not begin to achieve the effect, like a professional device, and thus the features alone from the aspect's price likely to be extremely limited.
Our neutrality in the market is very important to us. Through our brand independence we are able to advise you to inform honestly and objectively and individually.


But at least it's your own decision...
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Old March 12th, 2013, 12:48 AM   #42
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Old March 12th, 2013, 06:40 AM   #43
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I agree

I think discussions regarding Fuel Injection should be here. Since this is just a mapping Database. These posts could be moved by the moderator.

But, since the talk is on...

Hey @Somchai, been a while!

I agree that it seems strange there isn't more chatter about FI as the new 2013 bikes have it and a lot of people have been playing with the ecotron kits for some time. But, looking on the web, it seems most people don't want to discuss their FI tuning anyway. (Too Bad!) Hopefully more people will come forward as they get into tuning the new 300.

I believe the article posted above is the same one you sent me a link to before. It's a good read and educational, but should be taken for what it is - mostly opinion. Power Commanders and Autotunes aren't going to be perfect, but with a bit of trial and error they are definitely better than nothing. There are some good sites out there explaining how to properly use an Autotune, it just takes some searching.

@Ausoi: I'm sure you should be able to get close to 40hp with these bikes when tuned and set up right. I don't know what performance boost I'm getting, because the Dyno runs are just too expensive here. I do know it's MUCH better than the stock FI/exhaust, or slip-on. I out-perform almost all the other Ninja 250's at the track-days here when it comes to power and top speed. (That doesn't mean I drive better than them, just that I feel like my bike is faster than those around me.)

Looking forward to hearing about how people are tuning their Ecotrons & 300's.
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Old March 12th, 2013, 07:27 PM   #44
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Hello @Sonofswin, happy to hear (read) from you again and excuse me please from posting in the wrong thread. Maybe @Alex could please correct this for me. Thank you so much.

Now after maybe more then 80 test mappings and rides I found out that things like type of gasoline is very important. Here in LoS they sell what they call gasohol (it's E10) and before u could get benzene 91 RON (87 in US) what they took away now. So I'd map rich for this E10 fuel, but now they'd start to sell real 95 RON benzene (the 91 in US) and therefore I had to go to more lean again. But that's expensive (for the US Boys: 6.25 USD per Gallon - yours with 3.70 is really cheap compared to here). From the feeling it made a big difference to use the 95 with the rich mapping.
Also here's one company selling a tool for the use of E85 fuel, what at least when I understand it right is that they adjust to 30% more rich, what could be done with a tool like PCV or FAST also.

Have a great time and take good care of yourself.
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Old May 12th, 2013, 02:47 PM   #45
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Hi, is there anyone using Bazzaz? I just bought it for the sake of race that i'm in, where those young kids use PC V on all their bikes. Another point is i found that bazzaz has 2 more sensor on their ZFi, which is ckps sensor and the speed sensor.

Anyone cares to shares the map here? I'll install it real soon and i have access to dyno machine.
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Old May 12th, 2013, 05:01 PM   #46
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Hi, is there anyone using Bazzaz? I just bought it for the sake of race that i'm in, where those young kids use PC V on all their bikes. Another point is i found that bazzaz has 2 more sensor on their ZFi, which is ckps sensor and the speed sensor.

Anyone cares to shares the map here? I'll install it real soon and i have access to dyno machine.
Hey Red,

Never heard of Bazzaz till you mentioned it. After a little research though, they have their own online map database here. Searching for a 2011 250R I found a map from Southern California of all places. I would recommend taking a look there. When you get your bike mapped, make sure to let everyone know how it's going in the Map Database thread here.
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Old May 12th, 2013, 05:52 PM   #47
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Ooo interesting, I've been toying with the idea of a powercommander, but this bazzaz thing looks interesting... If they can ship with a plug and play loom or easy instructions as well as a map for stock i'm in.
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Old May 12th, 2013, 06:15 PM   #48
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I did a good bit of research on this unit, I get get one for £208! They review better than the PCV units in some cases and they seem to do the job at hand well enough!

Very clean install instructions also!

http://www.bazzaz.net/instructions/S442Si.pdf
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Old May 16th, 2013, 12:21 PM   #49
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They really are a plug&play item. Its easy to install it own our own, apart from the mapping process. I've been hearing about their mapping advantage over PC V, but will know it for sure real soon.something about not needing dyno to map it, but i have acces to dyno anyWay..needs those last horses to battle against the moriwaki md250h..
I will post the findings and the mapping as well, for K&N air filter & 2Bros full system
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Old May 16th, 2013, 12:28 PM   #50
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What's everyone using for their cruising AFR? I'm working on my map with my aftermarket EFI, and I'm trying to lean it a bit.

At WOT and heavy loads, I've got it running at 12.9 AFR. My shop recommended anywhere from 12.8-13.2. It pulls very well and the exhaust smells right.

but for cruising, I know I can go higher. Just not sure. Right now, I'm thinking 13.5-14.0 range for cruising, and 14.0-14.7 for very small throttle openings. This sound acceptable? I haven't gotten a chance to ride it really, since I've been riding in learning mode at 14.7 AFR for a few days now.
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Old May 17th, 2013, 11:38 PM   #51
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What u need is a ecu-flashing, since it's done already.

This picture shows the 250 (EU-Version 21175-0199)



The 300 is also done, no need for PC, Bazzaz or whatever else.
"Ninja 2013 300cc now done too and limiters found . Denso 7055 inside."
Look here at the link:
http://ecuhacking.activeboard.com/t5...-reflash-done/
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File Type: jpg EX250R_ECUTUNE.jpg (115.9 KB, 116 views)
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Old May 18th, 2013, 12:48 AM   #52
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What's everyone using for their cruising AFR? I'm working on my map with my aftermarket EFI, and I'm trying to lean it a bit.

At WOT and heavy loads, I've got it running at 12.9 AFR. My shop recommended anywhere from 12.8-13.2. It pulls very well and the exhaust smells right.

but for cruising, I know I can go higher. Just not sure. Right now, I'm thinking 13.5-14.0 range for cruising, and 14.0-14.7 for very small throttle openings. This sound acceptable? I haven't gotten a chance to ride it really, since I've been riding in learning mode at 14.7 AFR for a few days now.
I'm pretty sure this is still what I'm using for my Autotune mapping.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Target AFR.pdf (44.7 KB, 45 views)
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Old May 21st, 2013, 01:08 PM   #53
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Somchai, i have read on the ecu flashing before but the person wrote on the forum only post once. Have you done the flashing?
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 02:23 AM   #54
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Somchai, i have read on the ecu flashing before but the person wrote on the forum only post once. Have you done the flashing?
No Red, I didn't flash my ecu because the 250 comes with different ecu's and the remapping is done with the European model. The ecu for south-east-asia is different to that so they need one to read it out and then they can do the remap. I keep it with the Leovince FAST Fuel-System and from my point of view it's working well, my Ninja feels strong and powerful.
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 05:15 AM   #55
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Ok,fair enough.i alwast envy with those who have installed FAST Ecu from Leovince.

On the ecu forum i heard there is 3 maps in the ecu, well i have put my bike with the KDS thingy and there's 3 list of ECU aavailable on the software. Which is Europe(full version?), Indian model and Malaysian model. Is the 3 map for these 3 ecu types?
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 07:43 PM   #56
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Ok,fair enough.i alwast envy with those who have installed FAST Ecu from Leovince.

On the ecu forum i heard there is 3 maps in the ecu, well i have put my bike with the KDS thingy and there's 3 list of ECU aavailable on the software. Which is Europe(full version?), Indian model and Malaysian model. Is the 3 map for these 3 ecu types?
Thank you for this information, I didn't know that Kwaki already stores the different countries in one ecu and just uses another label on it. The ecu for south-east-asia is 21175-0234 and Europe is 21175-0199 (the number from india I don't know). But what I know about is the different setup for the ignition. It looks like that the full version of the ecu is the one used in south-east-asia (that's what I'd also hear from a guy here).
If you would like to know what remapping means please take a look at this thread here: http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewth...D=1&TID=23797&
So what this guys are doing is changing the parameters of the fuel and ignition setups.
Red, would please be so kind and tell me what cables and equipment (order-numbers) you need for using the kds-system? Thank you in advance.
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Old May 23rd, 2013, 12:08 PM   #57
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This is the KDS,but unfortunately i dont know the part number as it is not mine. But the one i use is USB version, not the RS232 tyype shown above.However it is easy to use, and it also can fit to so mane kawi bikes such as zx6,versys etc.

I just check my ecu and it is 0199, please confirm again this is the one for south east asia, or you have a typo. If i have the ecu for europe,wel...this should be fun!

The link you gave is 36 pages long...well i gonna need some time for that.LOL
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Old May 23rd, 2013, 10:22 PM   #58
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I just check my ecu and it is 0199, please confirm again this is the one for south east asia, or you have a typo. If i have the ecu for europe,wel...this should be fun!
The 0199 is the European model and the 0234 is South-East-Asia (including Japan I think), the 0234 is also called the Full-Power-Version (WVTA).
The ignition values are:
Europe: 40 deg at 6000 rpm
India: 38 deg at 6000 rpm
S-E-A: 40 deg at 4000 rpm
But at least with the european version you have the big advantage that this one is already hacked and can have a remapping done.
You can send an email to Chris asking him about a special mapping for your needs, he already opened the european model. Please look here: http://cjsracing.co.uk/news.htm
About the KDS I already found the numbers but that all is to expensive for what it can do, so I don't follow this up.
Good luck.
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Old June 11th, 2013, 12:12 PM   #59
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Hi, i just switching from bazzaz to PC V. I dont get as much HP gain as i expected from the full system 2Brothers, K&N filter, ignition advancer & the bazzaz unit. Something that makes me feel bad is aftr all these i can now having 27.8bhp only.
Well, the reason i opted for PC V because my sponsor have both. He also have the autotune, and most importantly in the race i joined the quickshifter is now made legal. Comparing the price of Qs both of bazzaz and PC V, PC V is a bit cheaper.
I will get it dyno this weekend and will update the results here. I really hope i got 30HP with this setup
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Old September 26th, 2013, 12:43 PM   #60
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Hi, this is my latest map.
Now the bike have wiseco 12.5:1 same bore.
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Old October 7th, 2015, 01:53 AM   #61
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Red did you map both cylinder separat?
In oem the both cylinder have different maps.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 08:17 PM   #62
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Okay, I feel like I'm talking to myself here, but I've got nowhere else to go with this.

I've put a Power Commander V in my 2011 FI Ninja and have recently bought a Tyga Full Racing Exhaust. Before I install the exhaust, I need a map for the PCV. The quote I got today for mapping on a dyno was about $600 and I would have to give them my bike for a week. Not gonna happen.

I have a map for the full Yoshimura exhaust. However, I was told by Tyga Performance:

Some independent tests comparing the Yoshi pipe to ours would show that the Yoshi pipe is a little more free flowing, so the map required for that may be a fraction rich for our pipe. But it would probably be a good starting point if you are able to fiddle with it a little.

In riding tests between ours and Yoshimura's pipe the general consensus was that the Yoshi was too top end biased and as such was left a little lacking in the bottom and midrange. Probably OK if you're drag racing.


There is a place nearby where I may be able to just Dyno the bike (haven't checked prices, but they don't do mapping so...)

Anyway, has anyone here done their own map adjustments? Any advice or recommendations?

If I remove my snorkel then use the Yoshimura map for full exhaust with snorkel, would that lean it out? If I do adjust the map myself, any ideas of how much I should lean it out and where in the tp/rpm curve?
I'm stuck at this road at the moment.
Except in my case I have a genuine yoshi slip on, and plan to remove the snorkle, and get bmc performance air filter, meaning my air intake will improve much more, but exhaust pressure is still sorta same as stock.

Any ideas which map I should head for?
Using PCFC.

Any of you guys paid attention to what petrol you're using? Here in europe 95octane is standard, in us 91/93 is the norm, so usa maps are a bit wild compared to what i've seen.

TLDR; No Snorkle // HiFlo air filter // Yoshi Slip on// octane 95, what map to use ?
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Old May 20th, 2017, 05:21 AM   #63
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My current map

Your system is pretty different from mine, but you can try looking at the sample maps you can download from the Power Commander site to find something as close to your system as possible.

I wouldn't worry about the 3~4 octane difference in gasoline unless you find your bike running hot or your plugs are showing signs of overheating.

I put an Autotune on my exhaust system and have created my own map, which I've been using (in its current form) for the last 2 years or so. I like it and the bike is running very well. It may have been based on the Yoshimura map in the beginning but I don't recall.

I haven't changed my plugs in a while, but am planning to do so soon. Looking at the plugs when I pull them will give me a better look at how the bike is running.

My system: full racing exhaust, high flow filter, no snorkel, with a PCV and Autotune (Which I haven't actually used in quite a while - I don't leave it on)

Attached is a pdf showing my map and target afr. Hope it helps.

Actually - here is a link to my map in the database thread.

TLDR: Try the maps available from Dynajet and don't worry about the gas.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Current PCV Map.pdf (46.0 KB, 7 views)
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Last futzed with by Sonofswin; May 20th, 2017 at 05:26 AM. Reason: Added Link
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Old May 20th, 2017, 05:38 AM   #64
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Your system is pretty different from mine, but you can try looking at the sample maps you can download from the Power Commander site to find something as close to your system as possible.

I wouldn't worry about the 3~4 octane difference in gasoline unless you find your bike running hot or your plugs are showing signs of overheating.

I put an Autotune on my exhaust system and have created my own map, which I've been using (in its current form) for the last 2 years or so. I like it and the bike is running very well. It may have been based on the Yoshimura map in the beginning but I don't recall.

I haven't changed my plugs in a while, but am planning to do so soon. Looking at the plugs when I pull them will give me a better look at how the bike is running.

My system: full racing exhaust, high flow filter, no snorkel, with a PCV and Autotune (Which I haven't actually used in quite a while - I don't leave it on)

Attached is a pdf showing my map and target afr. Hope it helps.

Actually - here is a link to my map in the database thread.

TLDR: Try the maps available from Dynajet and don't worry about the gas.
Problem is, PCV database has only got 3 maps, and neither of them suits me.
I guess I'll load a bunch of maps to PCFC (thanks to 10 map storage) and just see which one suits.

I'm amazed I'm the only one who want's to remap the bike while still having a slip on.

P.s. Any of you had issues with the Lambda sensor changing the mixture at odd intervals?
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