August 28th, 2010, 07:36 PM | #41 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Dave
Location: Michigan
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I think thats what kawi meant for the roles of 650R/ER-6n/Versys! Those bikes arent "supersports", to be ridden like a AMA racer 100% of the time! As far as "upgrade" goes... what do you really mean? I think you want a true "sportbike" that is sporty styling with a mix of more HP (50HP is pretty good for a set up from a 250R, yet if your not ready for the ZX-6R), so basically you wanna see a "ZX-4R" (Ditto for me! ) to fill the role of people looking for a upgrade in POWER from the 250R, but want to keep with the "sportbike aspect", that arent ready for the Power of the ZX-6R, who dont like the "Relaxed,upright,cruising riding position" of the 650/er6n/versys. So, back to them making a 650R Frame, with a 400cc engine in place... i agree that its not a good idea!!! Its like Dodge making a Challenger with either a HEMI or V6? What??? Defeats the purpose of that, being a Muscle car... screw the V6. Screw the 400cc on a heavy 650 frame. Maybe a new version of a 500cc engine in place of the 650cc on a 650R frame, might be ideal for the rider that wants more power then the 250R, but more over-all riding comfort! But, yea.. 400cc engine on a 400 lb frame is like sticking a 4 cyl. in a Car-Boat like a old Lincon town car.... the lil motor would strain to move the car and SUCK at MPG. Now a 400cc engine stuffed on the 250R frame, for more as a means of a upgrade between a Mini- ZX6R, would be sweet. But for someone of my status... I love my 250R, its been great, but my motorcycle lifestyle has changed and a bike like the 650R is a better FIT for me, as its more of a all-around sportbike for me! I ride 2UP alot on mine with my GF on group rides and just us 2. Ive grown more into a "touring" type rider and i JUST CANT AFFORD the Kawi Concourse 14, for a Near Perfect fit to my motorcycle usage/style! The 250R ISNT a ideal Long distance Trip bike, unless your ass lets you ride 800 miles on one sitting on that 250 between butt breaks! 2UP on the 250R, ive found is 2x as tiring vs solo riding. So... if kawi makes a 250R but with a 400cc engine... but keeps the bikes "sportbike" style and position, it wont be an "upgrade" for me, where the 09-10' Ninja 650R is. On the other hand, if i could stable 2 bikes, i would have the 650R for my 2UP needs and "touring", while solo riding short trips on bike nights or going to the trackdays, the New 400cc(250R frame) would be SWEEET!!!! Sorry for a long-sometimes-jumping-around topic, but... those are my *edit... wait i re-read what you said... lol i screwed up in my rambling! lol |
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August 29th, 2010, 07:35 PM | #42 | |
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August 30th, 2010, 06:46 AM | #43 |
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Name: Mikel
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Something to think about...
The 400R is made for the Japanese Market and Other Countries where either a 400 is the top of a Licensing Tier or an Insurance/Registration Tier. We have neither of those in the US. For me, insurance wise, a 250/400/500/650 are all the same price. My rate (and this is for me now at my age/driving record/location) doesn't increase until I hit the 750cc market (displacement wise).
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August 30th, 2010, 07:57 AM | #44 | |
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August 30th, 2010, 08:27 AM | #45 | |
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August 30th, 2010, 08:36 AM | #46 |
Professional belly dancer
Name: James
Location: Toronto
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I was doing some reading on the new-ish BMW F800R that they're selling up here in Canada (but not in the US) and it turns out that Canada seems to get more bikes than the US mostly because the bikes are the eurospec models but with different safety stickers plastered all over it. So it's easier for manufacturers to bring it over to us.
At least that's how it is for BMW. That might explain why Kawi is even bothering to bring the 400r here since the only province that has any kind of performance restriction on motorcycle licenses is Quebec. |
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August 31st, 2010, 07:24 PM | #47 |
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August 31st, 2010, 08:26 PM | #48 | |
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Um....yes it is.
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August 31st, 2010, 11:11 PM | #49 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Scott
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Read the review and I don't understand what the author likes so much about the bike. Sure, compared to the 125 or th 250 it has a better power band. But why would someone choose the 400 over the 650? He says it's a now completed step between "little bikes" and "full size motorcycles". But how is the 650 not that same step? His other comment about this being a bike to recommend to 125 and 250 riders doesn't make sense either. If someone is ready to upgrade, and the 650 is too much for them, then they probably shouldn't be upgrading in the first place.
Oh well. I've still yet to hear an explanation of how a 400 will fit into the market. At least one that I believe. |
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September 1st, 2010, 01:00 AM | #50 |
The New Big Guy
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September 1st, 2010, 05:36 AM | #51 | |
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But yes, the author was somewhat optimistic about the 400r, but seeing as how I haven't ridden either the 400r OR the 650r, I'm hardly in a position to compare. What this bike does represent, however, are more options. Options that seem to have been lacking previously. Just like the naked bike boom that we seem to be in the middle of, a future full of sub-middle weight starter bikes is a welcome one IMO. |
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September 1st, 2010, 06:16 AM | #52 | |
Green!
Name: Tyler
Location: S. Florida
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I don't know times on the 400, but I'd imagine them to be between the 650 and 250. The 400 is really a reasonable upgrade....it has about twice the torque (plus its lower more usable torque) and about 50% more hp. However, I agree to go from a 250, to 400, to 650 is a bit....well time and cost consuming more then anything. I can see a market for the 400, but I don't see it as a "stepping" bike. As you mentioned, if you can't go from a 250 to 600, you shouldn't be upgrading. The 650 is fast, but only when you want it to be fast. You should have throttle and clutch control down before you ever upgrade, and if you have the control, the 650 is fine. The market for the 400 would be two people. -Those that know they need to start small, but think a 250 is too small, especially bigger people who are cramped and/or pushing the 250s weight limit. -Those that want a small bike, but would like a bit more power then a 250. Tons of riders love the 250 and have traded larger bikes for it ("downgrading"), because honestly you don;t need the power of a 600. ever. But many people on the 250 wish it had a little bit more when on the highways. The 400 would cover that. It's a very very small market, but I can see a little bit of a market.
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September 1st, 2010, 07:15 AM | #53 |
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I chatted with a dealer who's sold a few of these bikes. He said they're marketing to new riders as an alternative to the 250. He hasn't had any step-down rider sales yet.
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September 1st, 2010, 07:23 AM | #54 |
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Yea, the jump from a 250 up to a 400 is pretty redundant....but during my demo ride with Honda I got a chance to ride their CB650F, which is marketed as a "next step" bike for their CBR125r riders. Now THAT'S a big jump, seeing as how the 125r is basically a mountain bike with a motor.
I expect a lot of 125r riders to trade in for the 400r. |
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September 1st, 2010, 07:29 AM | #55 |
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Name: Remy
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wow I think some people will never be happy, lol. If you want a small frame and a 400cc engine, how about a DRZ-400sm? That should fit your need.
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September 1st, 2010, 07:45 AM | #56 | |
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It feels exactly like the 250 at lower gears, she's just a little torque-impared at the higher gears
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September 1st, 2010, 08:22 AM | #57 | |
Wartown, USA
Name: Bryan
Location: Warner Robins, GA
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September 1st, 2010, 05:17 PM | #58 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Scott
Location: Indianapolis
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250 (Blue) Posts: 167
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- The EX500 made a fantastic first bike for thousands of riders (as did the GS500F). - The recent 250 owner's surveys show an obvious interest in a 300-350cc replacement - 400cc is a perfect step in many international insurance/licensing tiers, especially in Europe - A properly mapped FI 400cc could still be forgiving on the low end, add some torque in the midrange, and give it a top-end that would be stronger than the current 250's. So, I'm thinking, why not go with one model, a 400cc that could take care of the US and international markets? I'm not referring to the current "nerfed 650", but a whole new bike with a bit less upright riding position. Yes, a 250 version would be needed for some international markets (that licensing/insurance thing again). But this "universal 400" would be a bike I would redline my way to the dealership for, especially if they kept the new-gen 250 styling. Thoughts? |
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September 1st, 2010, 05:53 PM | #59 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Scott
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Now a re-designed 400 could be a different story. The other thing I disagree with would be making this bike with a "less upright" riding position. Unless they are purposely limiting themselves to a smaller market, it would be best to keep a more upright position to appeal more to the beginner rider. This is just speculation on my part, but based on how a lot of beginner bikes are made, I think I might be right. |
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September 1st, 2010, 06:20 PM | #60 | |
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September 1st, 2010, 06:37 PM | #61 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Lil One
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For someone like me who is only licensed to ride 550cc's or less the only option i have for an upgrade would be the 400 or go with the 500. I would have to go for my "big" bike licence if i go up to the 650 but don't really see why i would.
The only reason i would get the 400 is mainly because its an FI and i don't see the 250 getting that anytime soon.
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September 1st, 2010, 06:47 PM | #62 | |
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This 400r is a feeler. I'm assuming if sales are overwhelmingly positive, then an all new bike will eventually be released....possibly by other manufacturers as well. Investing in new product would take tens of millions of dollars and they would need a damn good reason to do so. Right now they have absolutely no reason to create a new bike from scratch. If I were them I wouldn't chance it either. History is littered with failed attempts at sending over different motorcyle options to the U.S market. Everything from the Honda 919 right up to the SV1000. And you guys wonder why you don't get certain bikes |
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September 1st, 2010, 07:07 PM | #63 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Josh
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September 1st, 2010, 08:31 PM | #64 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Scott
Location: Indianapolis
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Leaving a 250, 400, and 650 option in the US would make for a lousy product line (bad succession), but it would work internationally. Honda's NT700 has been quite the success in Europe (despite being butt-ugly, imo), and I would happily consider a middleweight ST. That's why I test rode the NT700 - I just didn't like it. Now after all this, I'm sure Kawi will read this and put me in charge of product line development. Oh well, it's good for discussion, no? |
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September 2nd, 2010, 07:54 AM | #65 | |
Professional belly dancer
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You just need to go viral with your ideas. |
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September 2nd, 2010, 05:30 PM | #66 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Scott
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September 2nd, 2010, 05:36 PM | #67 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Scott
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I don't think a 400 that looked exactly like the 650 and cost just a little bit less would sell in the US. But even assuming it did, where would these sales come from? It's not always a good idea to introduce a new product which entices your potential customers to trade down on their choice. I would imagine a lot of the trade off would come from customers who would have bought the 650 if the 400 had not been an option. Some would come from the 250 as well which may or may not be bad. But overall, I don't think it would be a positive move for Kawasaki. It would be different if they were going after a competitor, trying to take their market share, but there really is not one else in the US in this class of bike. |
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September 2nd, 2010, 08:44 PM | #68 | |
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September 3rd, 2010, 06:26 AM | #69 |
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September 3rd, 2010, 06:30 AM | #70 |
2010 250 Cup Champion
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Location: Port Perry, Ontario, Canada
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The 400 is being introduced in Canada to meet with the insurance laws in provinces such as BC and Quebec. It is replacing the EX 500.
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September 3rd, 2010, 07:57 AM | #71 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Scott
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I was only joking about the riding season. I've got to admit though, I enjoy the 12 month riding season even if 3 of those months are scorching hot. |
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September 4th, 2010, 07:02 PM | #72 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: David
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125 cc or less $242 126 cc to 400 cc $373 401 cc and over (regular) $627 401 cc and over (high-risk) $1 410 |
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September 4th, 2010, 07:21 PM | #73 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Josh
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That's retarded.
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September 4th, 2010, 07:53 PM | #74 |
Former ninjette rider
Name: Andy
Location: Hibbing, MN
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Judging from the specs, I'm not sure I would like this bike so much. Look at how much more it is than a 250R. I think if I was considering moving up in engine size, I'd just jump to the 650 just so it could get out of its own way.
And it's no secret that they aren't reading the surveys correctly. They really need to just offer an injected 250 in the U.S. I'd trade mine off in a second for it. I think this will just be a test flop for (hopefully) a better 250 in the future. I don't personally need a ton of power in a motorcycle, and that's one reason I chose the 250. I just would reeeeeally like to have fuel injection (and maybe a Corbin saddle from stock). I just hope they one day release the injected 250 in the U.S. THAT'S ALL I WANT! lol
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