January 10th, 2013, 07:14 AM | #1 |
Intrepid Adventurer
Name: Josh
Location: Rochester/Buffalo NY
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2004 GSXR 750 , 71 cb350streettracker, 07 Polaris Predator 500 Posts: A lot.
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2008 Ninjette Will not run, I am clue less Please HELP!
Hello
My 2008 ninja 250 had been sitting for a couple months and It was starting very hard. Once it would start it only would run on choke and would Immediately stall when the throttle is twisted even the smallest amount. I pulled the Carbs and cleaned them out cleaning them very carefully and they had lots of varnish like yellow build up from the old fuel with a tiny bit of corrosion but the jets did not seem to be clogged in any way. I reassembled the carbs and then blew into the atmospheric side of the carb to cause the vacum slide to lift. Both slides operated freely. I drained the tank and tested the fuel pump which pumped a lot of fuel. I put the carbs back on cleaned the air filter and gassed her up. She started hard and would only Idle on choke. After about 10 min of warm up I rev'ed the piss out of it and went to put it in first. It stalled out and now it will not even run on choke. Does anyone have any IDEA what my next step should be in problem solving the bike. side note.... My main jet needles do not have clips or notchs on them for adjustment .... Stock are not adjustable ? |
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January 10th, 2013, 07:21 AM | #2 |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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Have you verified that the carbs are being supplied with abundant fuel?
Any restriction in the supply system or lack of ventilation in the tank could cause that. What fuel pump do you refer to?
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January 10th, 2013, 07:49 AM | #3 |
Intrepid Adventurer
Name: Josh
Location: Rochester/Buffalo NY
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The diaphragm pump that is built into the petcock. If I remove the fuel line to the carb it pours out abundant fuel ! also I have a dripping fuel leak from one of the float bowls that I need to address.
So I do believe that plenty of fuel is going to the carbs. |
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January 10th, 2013, 10:04 AM | #4 | |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
Fuel should only flow if the petcock is on PRI. If fuel flows with the bike not running, the fuel line disconnected from the carb and the petcock on the ON position, then you have a bad petcock. You need to re-do your carb work and check for vacuum leaks and loose carb boots. |
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January 10th, 2013, 10:07 AM | #5 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
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January 10th, 2013, 11:12 AM | #6 |
Intrepid Adventurer
Name: Josh
Location: Rochester/Buffalo NY
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I understand how the prime works and the on setting. When it is on and I turn the motor over it pumps fuel via the diaphragm pump that is built into the pet cock.
I may just leave it to the on position and try startign it and that could indicate an issue with the pump and vacuum . but it seems to work well when I un hook the fuel line and turn key(turn the motor over) I cannot figure it out. if i spray fuel into it it will run a bit If I run it on choke it will idle but not run. Could it be the Mass air flow sensor or some kind of electronic issue? |
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January 10th, 2013, 11:22 AM | #7 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
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When was the last carb cleaning? Maybe it's time to clean em, especially those idle jets. Your op states it's been sitting for a time. When it does run, can you rev it without dying?
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January 10th, 2013, 11:28 AM | #8 |
RIP Alex
Name: Cuong
Location: Houston, TX
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Vacuum lines hooked up properly? Carb diaphragms not ripped? Idle screws weren't messed with? Carb synched?
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January 10th, 2013, 11:33 AM | #9 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
That diaphragm is not a pump, it is the actuator of a vacuum operated valve. It is a safety device to avoid fuel flowing out of the tank while the engine is off (zero vacuum condition). As one of the bowls is overflowing, you have a fuel level problem that needs to be addressed first. Your jets can only control the mix if they work against an specific level of fuel in the bowls. Either your valves or floats are bad or you inadvertently modified their adjustment during the cleaning process.
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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January 10th, 2013, 12:10 PM | #10 | |
Intrepid Adventurer
Name: Josh
Location: Rochester/Buffalo NY
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2004 GSXR 750 , 71 cb350streettracker, 07 Polaris Predator 500 Posts: A lot.
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@ csmith12 - I did not take our or adjust any idle screws. I did not even notice them.
I just sprayed carb cleaner through every little orfice I could see in the Carb with the little red straw until it blasted out at the other end of whichever hole it was. I did remove the Diaphram for the slides and the floats ect. but thats about it I did not sperate the carbs so they should be perfectly Synced? !!! It does not rev up at all. just idle w choke or not running at all. Quote:
@ cuong-nutz None of the soft parts were ripped or dry rotted . they seem fine. Thank you for all the help , I will be going through things all over again to see whats up this is the old crashed ninja I putt around on for fun thats why its so neglected :/ |
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January 10th, 2013, 01:05 PM | #11 |
Intrepid Adventurer
Name: Josh
Location: Rochester/Buffalo NY
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2004 GSXR 750 , 71 cb350streettracker, 07 Polaris Predator 500 Posts: A lot.
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I think I may have an IDEA ,,, The slides have a hole in them that is to the front or back in line with the needle.... if I put the slides in back wards could it cause these problems?
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January 10th, 2013, 02:40 PM | #12 | |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
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Quote:
Check this to clean the jets
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Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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January 10th, 2013, 03:01 PM | #13 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: dino
Location: Oceanside, Ca
Join Date: Nov 2010 Motorcycle(s): '09 250 Street, '09 250 Race, '13 300 Race Posts: A lot.
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One of my 250s was sitting around for 6 months and it wouldn't start. First cleaned in the same manner you described, it barely ran. I then took the carb completely apart and soaked it in Berryman's Chem dip. It started right up with no problems
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January 10th, 2013, 06:59 PM | #14 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Kurt
Location: Knoxville
Join Date: Oct 2012 Motorcycle(s): '04 R1 and '08 Ninja 250 Posts: 222
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There is no MAF on carbs.
Slides wont go in backwards. We had a similar sounding problem with Draik's '08. We cleaned (fully, by taking our all the jets), shimmed the needles and have to keep in on PRI... seems to work fine for us now.
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Check out this Ninja 250 roadracing youth---> TheDraik77 <--- My son |
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January 11th, 2013, 06:01 AM | #15 | |
Intrepid Adventurer
Name: Josh
Location: Rochester/Buffalo NY
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2004 GSXR 750 , 71 cb350streettracker, 07 Polaris Predator 500 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
I spray carb cleaner into the air box and rev it up and it will roar to life Does that mean it must be a fuel delievery problem? I sprayed Carb cleaner through each jet and it seemed to blast right through un obstructed.... I sprayed straight up through the main jet Through the two little jets when you look through the venturi I sprayed through the float valves The carb did not look dirty it just had a yellowish film built up in it. Very little corrosion. I guess I should just pull the carbs and try and try again ??? What other jets may I have missed? Is it really necessary to remove the brass main jet to clean it? |
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January 11th, 2013, 07:24 AM | #16 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Kurt
Location: Knoxville
Join Date: Oct 2012 Motorcycle(s): '04 R1 and '08 Ninja 250 Posts: 222
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I've always figured it is. You can take them out, hold them up to the light to veify they are clean. blow air through the carb with out the jets in it. Since you are pulling the carbs off anyway, you might as well fully disassemble and clean them.
When you are trying to get it started/rev it, do you ahve the airbox back on? If not, you could be just simply be having a "too-lean" condition.
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Check out this Ninja 250 roadracing youth---> TheDraik77 <--- My son |
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January 11th, 2013, 08:02 AM | #17 |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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Even though your carbs may be clean, there may be other reasons that may be your problem. It sounds like your engine may be lean with throttle openings.
Typical Lean Conditions: - Poor acceleration; the engine feels flat. - The engine won't respond when the throttle is snapped open, but it picks up speed as the throttle is closed. (A too-large main jet also mimics this symptom.) - The engine runs hot, knocks, pings and overheats. - The engine surges or hunts when cruising at part-throttle. - Popping or spitting through the carb occurs when the throttle is opened. Or popping and spitting occurs through the pipe on deceleration with a closed throttle. - The engine runs better in warm weather, worse in cool. - Performance gets worse when the air filter is removed. Here are some other things to look at from the TroubleShooting Guide Poor Running at Low Speed: Spark weak: Battery voltage low Spark plug dirty, broken, or maladjusted Spark plug cap or high tension wiring trouble Spark plug cap shorted or not in good contact Spark plug incorrect IC igniter trouble Crankshaft sensor trouble Ignition coil trouble Fuel/air mixture incorrect: Pilot screw maladjusted Pilot jet, or air passage clogged Air bleed pipe bleed holes clogged Pilot passage clogged Air cleaner clogged, poorly sealed, or element missing Choke plunger stuck open Fuel level in carburetor float bowl too high or too low Fuel tank air vent obstructed Carburetor holder loose Air cleaner duct loose Compression low: Spark plug loose Cylinder head not sufficiently tightened No valve clearance Cylinder, piston worn Piston ring bad (worn, weak, broken, or sticking) Piston ring/groove clearance excessive Cylinder head warped Cylinder head gasket damaged Valve spring broken or weak Valve not seating properly (valve bent, worn, or carbon accumulation on the seating surface) Other: IC igniter trouble (also see the NinjetteWiki; http://www.ninjette.org/wiki/Ignitor_problem) Carburetor not synchronizing Vacuum piston doesn’t slide smoothly Engine oil viscosity too high |
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January 11th, 2013, 08:21 AM | #18 |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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Your mix is too lean to sustain internal combustion for anything other than minimum airflow. You have a fuel delivery problem, but only you can find where it is. When you twist the throttle, you are opening the butterfly valve that only allows more air to come into the engine. The Bernoulli effect of that airstream sucks fuel from all the jets. When that doesn't happen, that cold air cools the internal flame and subsequent combustion stops happening. Why only so much fuel is being delivered by your jets? The answer to that question will solve this mystery.
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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January 11th, 2013, 08:52 AM | #19 | |
Fast-Guy wannabe
Name: Jason
Location: Brentwood, Ca
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January 20th, 2013, 12:20 AM | #20 |
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
Location: Newnan, GA
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