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Old January 6th, 2013, 06:42 AM   #1
tubarney
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Valve lift Stock camshaft

Anyone know how much valve lift the stock camshaft has on the 08+ 250r? Can't seem to find it in the service manual
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Old January 6th, 2013, 07:22 AM   #2
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I don't know. I can't change it myself. So I have not gone into it.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 09:25 AM   #3
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at a quick glance, seems like they list the cam height as a wear indicator tool in the service manual, but no specific number for lift.


Cam Height
Standard:
Exhaust 32.843 ∼ 32.957 mm (1.2930 ∼ 1.2975 in.)
Inlet 33.843 ∼ 33.957 mm (1.3324 ∼ 1.3369 in.)
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Old January 6th, 2013, 09:52 AM   #4
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Measuring it with a dial indicator on the face of the valve maybe? (Head out and camshaft turned by hand).
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Old January 9th, 2013, 06:29 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motofool View Post
Measuring it with a dial indicator on the face of the valve maybe? (Head out and camshaft turned by hand).
I'll look into this more. Taking it apart in 2 weeks to have the cylinder head ported.

Reason why i'm interested in this is I've seen 3 after market camshafts. Still waiting on the details of the 2. The one I do have the timing of; the webcam camshaft; seems to be focused on low to mid range power, not top end.

Basically I'm going to email everyone who makes camshafts to see if they can design a more aggressive camshaft. You can get software for designing camshafts; its around 500 dollars so I won't be buying it myself; just got to find someone who has it.

If I can get custom valve springs for a decent price, I will be using titanium valves from a kx250f (there almost identical). The valves are much cheaper than the 200 dollars each I got quoted by my builder. Racer X I've heard you have been looking for some springs that don't come in a pack of sixteen, hopefully my engine builder can help out. Will hit him up when he gets back from holidays.

I'm thinking of going down this path as it's something I've yet to see anyone do to extract a few more Hp.

By the way anyone thought of trying to fit a 300 clutch in the 250. Only 2 parts are different. For 500 bucks it seems like they way to go if one was wanting to make the bottom end stronger.
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Old January 14th, 2013, 08:53 PM   #6
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Easiest way to measure the valve lift is with vernier calipers. Position the camshaft so the nose points downwards. Measure the diameter of the base circle (the top part thats actually round), subtract this number from the vertical length of the camshaft lobe (taking measurement from top of base circle to bottom of nose). Done.

Basically just take a horizontal measurement then a vertical. Then subtract the horizontal from the vertical.

Yes dial indicator does work too. This is just so much easier.
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Old February 11th, 2013, 07:07 AM   #7
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.307 on intake and .260 on exhaust. Measured on a cam with 6000 miles.
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Old February 13th, 2013, 08:10 PM   #8
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Any news on which cam gives the best mid to top?
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Old February 13th, 2013, 10:09 PM   #9
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Cams for the ninja that I know of are: Webcam, Daniel Crower Racing and Beet Japan.

DCR has the shortest duration but the highest lift. It has less duration than stock so it will push power down the rev range but it has a lot more lift so it will make more power.

Webcam has shorter duration than stock but more than DCR. It has lower lift than DCR but more than stock. This will push your power down a bit in the range but you will still get more.

Beet Japan has the longest duration, more than stock. I don't know the lift for this camshaft. Of all aftermarket cams this is the only one that has more duration than stock (it will push your power up the rev range). This cam (depending on the lift) will give you the best top end.

I purchased the beet yesterday. Will measure lift when I get it.
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Old February 14th, 2013, 06:04 AM   #10
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How does one purchase a beet cam?
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Old February 14th, 2013, 06:22 AM   #11
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Send them an email at info@beet.co.jp

They are a really good company. Answer your emails next day. They did me a good deal on the camshafts. Tax free 38, 900 Yen including postage. $420 Australian. Would buy from them again any day. Posted next day too.

It costs them 35 700 Yen so ask for a deal.
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File Type: pdf 20130214104158083.pdf (51.2 KB, 28 views)
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Old February 14th, 2013, 11:07 AM   #12
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did they send you the specs on the BEET cam? If so, can you send them to me?
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Old February 14th, 2013, 06:28 PM   #13
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The camshaft are 20 000 Yen each. I got both for the 38 900.
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File Type: pdf 20130116101301794-6.pdf (101.5 KB, 17 views)
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Old February 14th, 2013, 06:46 PM   #14
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am I reading that right? 280 degrees of duration? What are the lift numbers and base circle?
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Old February 14th, 2013, 10:27 PM   #15
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This is where I took a leap of faith. I don't know the lift. I emailed them about it but it doesn't seem like they have it on hand.

I do have a pro that can calculate spring pressure for me, and another who can grind cams if the lift isn't high enough for my liking.

I will have the camshaft next week. I can measure it for you then.
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Old February 15th, 2013, 03:52 AM   #16
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I thing with camshafts and valve springs. The more duration you use the more lift you can use without changing springs. A short duration high lift cam opens and closes the valve great distances very quickly. Higher spring pressure for this, meaning new springs.

So being that the beet cam has the most duration I would suspect it has the highest lift since the is no aftermarket springs for any camshaft out there.

We will find out next week anyway.
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Old February 15th, 2013, 05:30 AM   #17
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I can't wait. My builder is using sorings from a 600. I will find out the particulars about that.
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Old February 15th, 2013, 07:30 AM   #18
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I emailed beet and they say they used stock springs.

I'm taking the cams to my builder to have them measured. I will find out how far they can grinded before I need new springs and before I start running into pistons.

I went for 13:1 J&E. If it needs it, I'm having the bowls of the combustion chamber blended to lower it slightly to 12:8. I'm getting the compression ratio measured.

Will get assemblies balanced too.
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Old February 15th, 2013, 07:32 AM   #19
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oh yeah news on the head. Be ready not next week, the week after. Going with stock valves.
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Old February 15th, 2013, 07:42 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubarney View Post
I emailed beet and they say they used stock springs.

I'm taking the cams to my builder to have them measured. I will find out how far they can grinded before I need new springs and before I start running into pistons.

I went for 13:1 J&E. If it needs it, I'm having the bowls of the combustion chamber blended to lower it slightly to 12:8. I'm getting the compression ratio measured.

Will get assemblies balanced too.
43 hp
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Old February 15th, 2013, 08:26 AM   #21
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Hope so. I'll take anything over 40.

J&E say the 13:1 require race gas. My tuner seems to think with the brt I should be fine.

Still deciding wether or not to lower the compression ratio slightly to be on the safe side. All depends on what the compression is when I measure it.
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Old February 15th, 2013, 08:43 AM   #22
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These engine are not prone to detonation. I think you will be fine. An with the brt you can always run a milder map
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Old February 16th, 2013, 07:20 AM   #23
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Now I learn about this thing called dynamic compression ratio.

Any chance you have a conrod thats not attached to an engine? If so, are you able to measure the length from the centre of both eye's?
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Old February 16th, 2013, 07:24 AM   #24
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Let me check.
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Old February 16th, 2013, 08:48 PM   #25
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Thanks x. I just learned whats involved in getting them out. Not to excited about that one.
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Old February 17th, 2013, 10:22 AM   #26
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100 mm C to C .

Getting them out is easy but you must replace the bolts to put them back in.
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Old February 17th, 2013, 12:30 PM   #27
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Why are you having to pull the motor apart? I.e. why the focus on dynamic compression?
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Old February 18th, 2013, 12:26 AM   #28
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Thanks x. Much appreciated.

I need the crankshaft out of the engine for balancing.

I need it to run on pump gas. I found it interesting that changing when the intake valve closes lowers your static compression. Making it possible to run 13:1 static CR without changing your ignition timing.

I don't need to calculate it, just interested in what Dynamic CR with what timing enables pump gas to be used.
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Old February 18th, 2013, 02:02 AM   #29
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Beet camshaft lift is 0.315 and 0.313 not sure which is intake and exhaust. My measurements aren't 100% accurate as my vernier caliper's are cheap. I will take it to my builder sometime this week for a accurate measurement.

I will get the instructions translated.

Last futzed with by tubarney; February 18th, 2013 at 05:48 AM.
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Old February 18th, 2013, 05:52 AM   #30
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I'm halfway through translating the instructions. Parts I have done just tell you how to degree it in and how to break it in. Which is general to all new camshafts. And a part about warranty due to this being a race only part.
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Old February 18th, 2013, 05:58 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by tubarney View Post
Beet camshaft lift is 0.315 and 0.313 not sure which is intake and exhaust. My measurements aren't 100% accurate as my vernier caliper's are cheap. I will take it to my builder sometime this week for a accurate measurement.

I will get the instructions translated.
cool, thanks for the info!

As for me, I am using Web Cams. They have cams that are not advertised on their site, and I am getting their race tested version. It's square at .317/236@.050 for both the intake and exhaust. Seems like the beet has slightly less lift with a tad more duration (advertised duration is 280 BEET, 264 Web). This should not matter too much to me though as the head has been profesionally ported and I now have +1mm valves and springs from an R1. (yea that's right, should I get an R6? <----joke on the site) This should push more air in at the mid-upper range.

Switching subjects:

Tubarney/RacerX, with the 265 kit, do you need to get things balanced or lightened or is it just for the extra hp? The builder I am using said that the little extra weight of the pistons will reduce max rpms on the top end, but will give more torque. However, the last thing I want is for this motor to spin a bearing or something stupid when I could have prevented it now. thoughts?
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Old February 18th, 2013, 06:27 AM   #32
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I can feel a tiny buzz somewhere when on the dyno. But that could be anything. The pistons are a little heavy. But not that much. No balance is needed. But it can't hurt any engine to do that with.
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