Over heating issue. Ninja 250r

[SF-Dug]

Hi folks I would like to know if anyone has dealt with over heating issue with this bike?

I'll be open front and say that the bike had been dropped 2 times previously. It dropped hard enough on the right side to crack a small area around the right blinker on the lower fairing and it dropped on the left side but there was no damage at all to that side. Other then those 2 drops I can't think of anything else that might be wrong with this bike. I checked the coolant and it's around half full in the reservoir tank and the oil levels are near full.

I've noticed the bike over heats and shuts down when I ride in low gears or come to a complete stop at a light. This was first apparent when I was practicing my riding in a open parking lot near my home the 2nd time I rode the bike. Usually it starts right up but I am worried that this might be a bigger issue related to the drops I had about 2 weeks ago when I first rode the bike going up hill. I am not a gear head so I wouldn't know where to start really besides checking the obvious places like the fluid levels and making sure the radiator cap is on tight or adding some distilled water to up the ratio of coolant to water.


Any info or tips would be helpful. Should I take my bike to a mechanic just to be safe? Is it normal for the bike to over heat if it's kept at lower gears 1-2 for a extended period of time like say practicing stop and go maneuvers, etc..? This bike has shut down on me while coming to stop on the road about 2 now and at least 3-4 times while practicing in a lot. Has anyone else encounter this type of problem before?

[kkim]

Originally Posted by SF-Dug

Is it normal for the bike to over heat if it's kept at lower gears 1-2 for a extended period of time like say practicing stop and go maneuvers, etc..?

That is normal.

Originally Posted by SF-Dug

This bike has shut down on me while coming to stop on the road about 2 now and at least 3-4 times while practicing in a lot. Has anyone else encounter this type of problem before?

That's not normal... what is your idle rpm after the bike is fully warmed up?

[Alex]

Hi Dug -

What makes you think that it's overheating and shutting down? Is the temp light coming on on the dash? If you've checked the radiator cap, and the coolant in the overflow reservoir isn't moving up and down, the next thing to check would be the fan operation. The fan on motorcycles (and most cars) does nothing once you're moving more than 20 mph, so it turns off. It's only used to pull air across the radiator when the bike is moving slowly or stopped. A bike without a functioning fan will work fine at speed with no symptoms, but when the bike is stopped or crawling, the coolant temp will spike. Can you hear or see your fan spinning? It will stay on for a minute or two even after the bike is shut-off, so if yours isn't even though the motor is hot, that could indicate a problem.

Is your bike still under warranty? If so, (and probably even if it's not), I'd have a mechanic or at the very least a gearhead friend take a closer look at your bike to see if the drops could have done more than just cosmetic damage.

[SF-Dug]

Okay thanks for the feed back. I am gonna check to see if the fan comes on later today. Then I'll take it to a mechanic shop just to make sure.

Edit: I took the bike out for a short trip and then came home and removed the right lower fairing. I let the bake idle in neutral ( no choke ) for about 10 minutes when I got home. The fan did not come on at all but the bike did not over heat either.

I also have another question.The choke is only meant to keep the bike running so that it warms up right? How long should the choke be left on before I turn it off? I've usually only left it running for about 6-10 minutes or so before turning it off. Also when cold starting the bike should I apply the choke or try to start it without and then apply choke? Usually it would not start up without the choke in this weather.

[Alex]

Opinions vary, but here's what I do (living in pretty much the same climate you do). Choke full-on to start the bike. Once the bike is started, ride away in under a minute. After a few hundred yards, I turn the choke completely off. If I'm coming to a stop in the first minute or two, I need to be careful when taking off, to make sure it doesn't stall, but that's about it.

No need to ride for any extended period with the choke on, and no need to let the bike sit idle while warming it up either.

[SF-Dug]

Originally Posted by kkim

That is normal.


That's not normal... what is your idle rpm after the bike is fully warmed up?

I am gonna have to get back to you on that one. I am gonna go for another ride tomorrow in the morning so I'll post up later on. I think from my off hand observations it's about 2k - 3k but I may be wrong here.

Update: The bike idles near 1,500k rpms. I also realized today that the real reason why I was stalling out had to do with being in a false neutral or in 2nd instead of first when I came to a complete stop. The shifter nob tends to be sticky when shifting down pass second into first and it seems like it does not want to go all the way down to first when the clutch is pulled in all the way. Unfortunately I dumped the bike practicing stop and go right hand turns. I made a stop and then proceed to try to make a right hand turn but the bike was stuck in second gear then bike stalled out and of course gravity took over. I ****ed up the mounting for the blinker. It was already cracked from the previous dump but now it's completely broken off. The blinker is okay but the lower right hand fairing needs to be replaced.

Is shifting from second to first always so problematic on these bikes? Is there a way to adjust the clutch to ensure that it shifts down correctly from a higher gear to the next? When I was practicing my stops I would shift into third to gain some speed and then when neared my stopping area I would hold in the clutch and shift down through gears as I was stopped to get into first and then take off. Of course this is where I would encounter my false neutrals or be stuck between gears.

Is that proper technique for the road? Should I be down shifting away from higher gears into second prior to stopping and then shifting into first at the stop? I've read that holding the shifter down while moving away from a stop ensures that when you release the clutch you engage 1st gear. Is this true?

[islanderman7]

Originally Posted by SF-Dug

I am gonna have to get back to you on that one. I am gonna go for another ride tomorrow in the morning so I'll post up later on. I think from my off hand observations it's about 2k - 3k but I may be wrong here.

You're idle should be around 1300 rpms. Thats the stock spec, but I have mine at 1500 rpm because its easier to judge on the tachometer.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by SF-Dug

Edit: I took the bike out for a short trip and then came home and removed the right lower fairing. I let the bake idle in neutral ( no choke ) for about 10 minutes when I got home. The fan did not come on at all but the bike did not over heat either.

You should try leaving the fairing off, start the bike and let it idle until the fan comes on or fluid starts overflowing from the overflow tube down by your rear tire. That way you'll know you've gotten the bike hot enough to the point where the fan should have come on.

Also, check to see if the fan is stuck. There have been posts about rocks getting lodged between the fan blades and the shroud and preventing the fan from turning.

so, what is you idle set to?

[SF-Dug]

Originally Posted by kkim

You should try leaving the fairing off, start the bike and let it idle until the fan comes on or fluid starts overflowing from the overflow tube down by your rear tire. That way you'll know you've gotten the bike hot enough to the point where the fan should have come on.

Also, check to see if the fan is stuck. There have been posts about rocks getting lodged between the fan blades and the shroud and preventing the fan from turning.

so, what is you idle set to?

I'd say just shy of 1,500 rpms. The reason why I was stalling out is in my last post above this one.

[kkim]

Okay, idle at 1500 sounds about right.

As far as getting into first, I always look to see the green neutral light come on as I downshift to know I'm passing from second into first. Now that you know that the shifting can be a bit tricky between second to first, make sure you're in first when at a stop or right before you leave from a stop by trying to downshift to a lower gear. I'm always checking that when I'm at a stop to insure I'm in first. I will sometimes pop the bike out of first by nudging the bike into neutral just to see the green neural light come on, then kick the bike back down into first.

How's the overheating problem coming along?

Also, if you add new information to a previous post, make it distinctive by italicizing it or something. People will not get notifications that you've modified your posts.

Better still, just add another post if you have new information to add to your previous posts. It prevents people having to go back and reread your entire posts to find the new info... we're here to help... you need to make it easy for us to see information.

[islanderman7]

Originally Posted by SF-Dug

Is shifting from second to first always so problematic on these bikes? Is there a way to adjust the clutch to ensure that it shifts down correctly from a higher gear to the next? When I was practicing my stops I would shift into third to gain some speed and then when neared my stopping area I would hold in the clutch and shift down through gears as I was stopped to get into first and then take off. Of course this is where I would encounter my false neutrals or be stuck between gears.

Is that proper technique for the road? Should I be down shifting away from higher gears into second prior to stopping and then shifting into first at the stop? I've read that holding the shifter down while moving away from a stop ensures that when you release the clutch you engage 1st gear. Is this true?

Try cleaning and lubricating your clutch cable.

You're technique in approaching a stop sign is how I do it. But I downshift to 1st and push an extra 2 or 3 times after I am in 1st gear to make sure that it is indeed in 1st gear.

This extra measure that I do to ensure that it is in 1st gear has gotten rid of the "false neutral" experience that I had when I first learning how to ride.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by islanderman7

But I downshift to 1st and push an extra 2 or 3 times after I am in 1st gear to make sure that it is indeed in 1st gear.

This extra measure that I do to ensure that it is in 1st gear has got rid of the "false neutral" experience that I had when I first learning how to ride.

lol.. the old first gear tap dance.

[islanderman7]

Originally Posted by kkim

lol.. the old first gear tap dance.

Shuffle, Bell, Hop.

[SF-Dug]

Originally Posted by islanderman7

Try cleaning and lubricating your clutch cable.

You're technique in approaching a stop sign is how I do it. But I downshift to 1st and push an extra 2 or 3 times after I am in 1st gear to make sure that it is indeed in 1st gear.

This extra measure that I do to ensure that it is in 1st gear has gotten rid of the "false neutral" experience that I had when I first learning how to ride.

Am gonna clean the clutch cable then. Can I adjust the cable to also give me more of an edge on downshifting and finding 1st gear ? Is that possible and will that effect the friction zone on the bike if I make it more downshift friendly?

[kkim]

I really don't think it's a clutch cable issue. Our bikes are new... they should be working properly. Check the clutch free play, though, and make sure it's what they specify in the owner's manual.

Shifting into first is a bit tricky with most bikes... the 250R especially. It sometimes just "hangs" and you just need to stir the gearbox around to get past the sticky point.

How many miles on your bike? Has the oil been changed. That might help the shifting a bit.

[HKr1]

Hope you changed the oil, that factory crap kept ours from shifting back into first.

Others mentioned cooling fan coming on for overheating, thats a good start. You can also take the cap off the radiator & make sure the coolant flows(IE thermostat opens) also. Do you have one of those small thermometers you can put in the radiator opening, too check coolant temp? or for that matter one of the laser models

[SF-Dug]

Originally Posted by kkim

I really don't think it's a clutch cable issue. Our bikes are new... they should be working properly. Check the clutch free play, though, and make sure it's what they specify in the owner's manual.

Shifting into first is a bit tricky with most bikes... the 250R especially. It sometimes just "hangs" and you just need to stir the gearbox around to get past the sticky point.

How many miles on your bike? Has the oil been changed. That might help the shifting a bit.

It has around 863 miles but I bought it used. It went through a pre-sale inspection when I bought it and had the 500 mile tune/adjustment when I purchased it.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by SF-Dug

It has around 863 miles but I bought it used. It went through a pre-sale inspection when I bought it and had the 500 mile tune/adjustment when I purchased it.

So, the oil and filter was changed at the 500 check?

[SF-Dug]

Originally Posted by kkim

So, the oil and filter was changed at the 500 check?

Pretty much but I can change it again I guess to be on the safe side I guess.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by SF-Dug

Pretty much but I can change it again I guess to be on the safe side I guess.

I guess I was asking if you know for sure it was changed? Do you have paperwork from who did the work that the oil and filter was indeed changed, that is, if you didn't do it yourself?

[SF-Dug]

Originally Posted by kkim

I guess I was asking if you know for sure it was changed? Do you have paperwork from who did the work that the oil and filter was indeed changed, that is, if you didn't do it yourself?

Yeah I do have the receipt and it says they changed the oil on the bike.

[kkim]

okay, so you have like 300 something miles since the last change. You should be okay, but do you know how to change the oil/filter yourself? If so, it might be worth a shot to try and change the oil to see if that helps your shifting smoothness. I wouldn't pay to have someone else do it to find out, though.

[noche_caliente]

how fast are you going when you're trying to shift down into first? I've found that if i'm not going less than about 10 mph, or already darn near stopped, it will pretty much just bounce off of first and back up into second or neutral....
I may have just missed that in your posts, but you might want to look at when you're shifting...

[SF-Dug]

Originally Posted by noche_caliente

how fast are you going when you're trying to shift down into first? I've found that if i'm not going less than about 10 mph, or already darn near stopped, it will pretty much just bounce off of first and back up into second or neutral....
I may have just missed that in your posts, but you might want to look at when you're shifting...

I think I was stopped but yeah I did experience the bounce back you talked about when slowing down or stopping at several points when trying to shift into first from a higher gear when I was riding around.

[NJD022588]

I have actually had my rear tire break loose when downshifting (engine braking). This was surprising to me, but I try to be more careful now when its cold out and I know my tires aren't warm.

[Sailariel]

I think that I will research installing Oil Pressure, Water Temperature, and Volt Meter. I suspect that on the Oil pressure and Water Temp I could find a T fitting that would allow me to keep the idiot lights. I did a similar modification on the Yanmar diesel on our boat.

[kkim]

Dug,

Any update on your problem?

[VeX]

Originally Posted by Alex Allmayer Beck

I think that I will research installing Oil Pressure, Water Temperature, and Volt Meter. I suspect that on the Oil pressure and Water Temp I could find a T fitting that would allow me to keep the idiot lights. I did a similar modification on the Yanmar diesel on our boat.

While I am a fan of knowing what's going on The damned set-up with the idiot lights kind of leaves no 'wiggle room'. The more I talked with kkim (on a separate issue) about the water temperature the less it occurred to me that you could have either of the water temperature senders multi-function.

... The senders don't send an analog signal, but a digital (on or off). When the pre-set temperature is triggered the sensor passes voltage. Your BEST bet for retaining the idiot light sensors would be teeing the overheating sender (located...

There ^^^ and adding your linear temperature sender. As for the oil pressure where the oil line that goes from the block to the head would be a good tee spot IMO...

I've literally thought this all through for if/when I do aftermarket gauges.

[Sailariel]

VeX, Thanks fot the info. I`m going to try ro find some aftermarket guages at our local Auto Zone.

[SF-Dug]

Originally Posted by kkim

Dug,

Any update on your problem?

Well I think it was me just riding the bike in 1st and 2nd gear for extended periods of time. I've ridden it today ( Went to the gas station and did a few turns in my local big parking lot area. ) and the bike did not have any problems. I think if I stay above 1st or 2nd gear it's better for the bike because it seems to run better for me and stays cooler from what I've been told. The only issue would be I guess is that since I live in a hilly area of San Francisco I am going to be in 1st gear while trudging up to get home. The hill I live on is not that step but still steep enough to cause the bike to roll back if I don't have my foot or hand on the brakes while stopped. So basically I am trying to get use to the hand coordination needed to accelerate, release the clutch and the rear brake at the right moments.


As for the shifting issues I've talked about well they have actually gotten better to a degree now that I know what to look out for when encountering or avoiding false neutrals. i think that issue again was me being a complete n00b. I did have a scary moment while shifting into 1st where the front end wiggle a little. Not enough to cause me to swerve but enough so that I could feel it wiggle and be surprised. I think this is due to me not matching rpms while down shifting. The matching rpms skill is still new to me but I am gonna try to get it down.

[kkim]

cool. that's what it takes to become a better rider... practice, practice, practice.

good luck!

[voodoomaster]

Originally Posted by SF-Dug

Well I think it was me just riding the bike in 1st and 2nd gear for extended periods of time. I've ridden it today ( Went to the gas station and did a few turns in my local big parking lot area. ) and the bike did not have any problems. I think if I stay above 1st or 2nd gear it's better for the bike because it seems to run better for me and stays cooler from what I've been told. The only issue would be I guess is that since I live in a hilly area of San Francisco I am going to be in 1st gear while trudging up to get home. The hill I live on is not that step but still steep enough to cause the bike to roll back if I don't have my foot or hand on the brakes while stopped. So basically I am trying to get use to the hand coordination needed to accelerate, release the clutch and the rear brake at the right moments.


As for the shifting issues I've talked about well they have actually gotten better to a degree now that I know what to look out for when encountering or avoiding false neutrals. i think that issue again was me being a complete n00b. I did have a scary moment while shifting into 1st where the front end wiggle a little. Not enough to cause me to swerve but enough so that I could feel it wiggle and be surprised. I think this is due to me not matching rpms while down shifting. The matching rpms skill is still new to me but I am gonna try to get it down.

I live in Southern Arizona. The outside air temperature grows to a hefty value in a few of the extreme months. I have had my cooling fan crank-up more than a few times during the course of a low speed run around the city streets (traffic, etc.). The fan does an adequate job keeping the coolant at a usuable temperature. If you haven't experienced your fan coming to life, you have a problem with the termostat or the fan drive (fuse?) or the fan is locked up. Can you manually rotate the fan when the bike is cold.