Shimming, Snorkle removal, Full exhaust systems etc.

[Viper-Byte]

Hi Everyone,

I am wanting to mod my 08 250R and what I am wanting to achive is a better sounding bike (more of a rumble sound than the stock sewing machine sound!) and making the bike have a smoother, better power curve and more power in general.

I am looking at getting an AreaP full exhaust system (this I would prefer down the list as it is expensive) and installing an aftermarket jet kit and shimming it, also removing the snorkle and I read removal of the Kleen air system is good with an after market exhaust.

Which order would be the best to do this? (keeping in mind the exhaust down the list, if possible (I have a trip overseas coming up in 3 months and it is expensive )) And considering I have VERY little knowledge of pulling a bike, or engine for that matter! apart (but I am keen on learning!) please advise how advanced each mod would be for me.

If there are other mods that you recommend, feel free to post them, and if a mod above should not be done, or done in a certain order etc feel free to post it.

Thanks!
David

EDIT: I think there should be a separate sub forum (or atleast sticky) all goods DIYs, cause I have read a few of these and they are great! big to the writers.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Viper-Byte

EDIT: I think there should be a separate sub forum (or atleast sticky) all goods DIYs, cause I have read a few of these and they are great! big to the writers.

Hi David -

The sticky you're looking for is right here.

[Viper-Byte]

Originally Posted by Alex

Hi David -

The sticky you're looking for is right here.

Hi Alex,

Yes, I see, so it is! Of all the stickys I looked at, I missed that one! *walks off to bed trying not to attract attention *

[Alex]

[Viper-Byte]

Great, I have made my goal for today (make someone )

[noche_caliente]

Hi again David! I know this isn't really what you want to hear, but IMO you probably should look into the exhaust as one of the first mods, as you'll likely have to rejet afterward.... I also plan on going with the Area P, and thus far have only shimmed for now, as it was unbearable from the factory, but have held off on removing the snorkle or doing anything else in order to avoid making it too lean after I swap the system out. I figure I'll just go with baby steps....

[M-Oorb]

I think I'm in the same boat as you buddy...I wanted to mod my bike to get some more power and better sound but wanted to save the exhaust till the end cause of the price. I've removed the snorkel first and just shimmed yesterday. REmoving the snorkel is probably the easiest and cheapest(FREE!!!) mod you could do. The bike sounds great with it off...gives you that rumble...and pulls a little harder. Shim next as the bike will probably will be running lean. This mod again just costs a couple cents. It's some work but I have no experience with really working on engines and I got it done yesterday and am very happy about it . Then go with the exhaust and jet kit. Cant give you opinions of those...Havent done them yet. Whatever you choose to do, have fun doing it, ride safe, and good luck!

[kkim]

Having done the entire process, one step at a time, my question is, how much money do you have to do this? If you have money for the exhaust, buy it now and when you install it, shim and remove snorkel at the same time.

If you don't have the money for the exhaust, shim and remove snorkel now... then add exhaust later, but you will need to reshim to compensate for the added exhaust.

Plugging the Kleen system can wait till the exhaust is installed.

I'd put off on a jet kit until everything is installed and you feel jetting is holding you back. Most will be satisfied with shimming for their bikes, so you may not need one. It depends on how picky you are about your bike's jetting. Before you say, "I want the very best for my bike", be prepared to jet and rejet many, many times with a jet kit to get things perfect... I'm still not done after months and months of playing with jetting.

[g21-30]

Viper-Byte,

If you want to replace your factory muffler and don't want to spend alot of money, check out the following:

http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/tpl/cm...p=&brandId=243

Here is a video with an example muffler from the above link:

Link to original page on YouTube.

Here is the same bike with the snorkel removed and the factory muffler:

Link to original page on YouTube.

[HKr1]

Could always gutt out the stock can! < 30 bucks isnt a bad price

Then you will be running and sounding better until you get cash up for the ap

[kkim]

Originally Posted by HKr1

Could always gutt out the stock can! < 30 bucks isnt a bad price

Then you will be running and sounding better until you get cash up for the ap

That is a great mod!!

[Viper-Byte]

Originally Posted by noche_caliente

Hi again David! I know this isn't really what you want to hear, but IMO you probably should look into the exhaust as one of the first mods, as you'll likely have to rejet afterward.... I also plan on going with the Area P, and thus far have only shimmed for now, as it was unbearable from the factory, but have held off on removing the snorkle or doing anything else in order to avoid making it too lean after I swap the system out. I figure I'll just go with baby steps....

Hi Kim!

Yeah, I was thinking that myself. My bike, I believe has been set with a good mix from the factory, correct me if I am wrong, but I have never had to use the choke in 4 months and after it is warm, there is no hessitation in the bottom end when taking off, so I believe it is not running lean? My main concern is getting the mixture setting incorrect and damaging the engine.

Originally Posted by M-Oorb

I think I'm in the same boat as you buddy...I wanted to mod my bike to get some more power and better sound but wanted to save the exhaust till the end cause of the price. I've removed the snorkel first and just shimmed yesterday. REmoving the snorkel is probably the easiest and cheapest(FREE!!!) mod you could do. The bike sounds great with it off...gives you that rumble...and pulls a little harder. Shim next as the bike will probably will be running lean. This mod again just costs a couple cents. It's some work but I have no experience with really working on engines and I got it done yesterday and am very happy about it . Then go with the exhaust and jet kit. Cant give you opinions of those...Havent done them yet. Whatever you choose to do, have fun doing it, ride safe, and good luck!

Yeah, I read your thread titled what came first, the intake or exhaust and had good info in it. So, it would be fine to remove the snorkle and then shim if it is running lean? How can I tell if it is running lean? I think I will be going with the Area P as that sounds the best to me Jet kit I don't know, come to that bridge when I get to it.

Originally Posted by kkim

Having done the entire process, one step at a time, my question is, how much money do you have to do this? If you have money for the exhaust, buy it now and when you install it, shim and remove snorkel at the same time.

If you don't have the money for the exhaust, shim and remove snorkel now... then add exhaust later, but you will need to reshim to compensate for the added exhaust.

Plugging the Kleen system can wait till the exhaust is installed.

I'd put off on a jet kit until everything is installed and you feel jetting is holding you back. Most will be satisfied with shimming for their bikes, so you may not need one. It depends on how picky you are about your bike's jetting. Before you say, "I want the very best for my bike", be prepared to jet and rejet many, many times with a jet kit to get things perfect... I'm still not done after months and months of playing with jetting.

At present, I do not have any money for this due to my trip in 3 months, I have had to pay that now to secure the booking and everything. But I will take a look and see what the actual price for the exhaust system will be for me down here and to when I will be able to afford it.

I am fine with having to reshim later when I do have the full exhaust.

OK, I was looking at the jet kit that Area P can supply with the exhaust (dynojet), but I will hold off till and if it is actually needed.

Originally Posted by g21-30

Viper-Byte,

If you want to replace your factory muffler and don't want to spend alot of money, check out the following:

http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/tpl/cm...p=&brandId=243

Thanks for the links, though I would prefer to only replace the exhaust with the full system, save time and money etc (I am happy to wait till I can replace it with the Area P.)

Originally Posted by HKr1

Could always gutt out the stock can! < 30 bucks isnt a bad price

Then you will be running and sounding better until you get cash up for the ap

That is true, I will have a look at it, thanks.

Thanks everyone for the replies so far!

[kkim]

Okay, if looking to do this as cheaply as possible right now, yank the snorkel and ride the bike. If it gets hesitant or starts to stutter after pulling it, add a shim.

Have you read this post on shimming?
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9465

[Viper-Byte]

Great, I have got 4 days off work coming up, so I should have heaps of time to pull the snorkle, test, and possibly shim if required.

Yes, I did read that thread yesterday, it has very good info (and was how I worked out my bike is not running lean), good job Kelly

[kkim]

David,

Pull the snorkel... it takes like 5 minutes, if that. If it runs lean, you can then plan to shim on your time off. The bike can run w/o damage with the snorkel removed, especially yours, which seems to be set up on the rich in the idle circuit anyway.

If you pull it and it runs lean and makes you nervous w/o shimming, the snorkel can be put back in (though it isn't an easy job) until you can shim.

[Viper-Byte]

Thanks Kelly, I was debating about pulling the snorkel tonight and you have just made up my mind!

I will test ride it to work tomorrow, a 60km round trip with 90% on the highway.

I thought it should be able to be put back in.

Just a question, doing things like this must be voiding the warranty, is that correct?

[kkim]

It will void the warranty if you have a problem with an area of the bike that you've touched. Say you burn up your engine cause you rejet and it's too lean... the warranty won't cover the blown engine. But, rejet your bike and you find you have a broken wheel, they cannot deny you warranty on the wheel just because you rejetted your bike.

Just be advised that if you have emission laws in your country, you are breaking the law by shimming your needles or putting on an aftermarket exhaust. From what I hear, NZ is not all that strict on bikes. Is that true?

pull the snorkel and go for a short ride, just to check it out.

[Viper-Byte]

Yeah, I thought that was the case, I am having issues with the rev counter reading higher that what it is and was just concerned that my mods may void the warranty for this. (am currently talking with dealer about it.)

From what I know, they are not strict, a lot of the cars here have got aftermarket exhausts and the bike shops sell aftermarket exhausts, so I assume I will be fine. It may pay for me to check that with the people in the know!

Yeah, I was going to pull it, test ride it around the bays near my place in the nice warm weather with the sun going down, no wind and the smell of the sea, great I say! then give it a longer run into work tomorrow.

[kkim]

You do know the tach is a common problem with these bikes, correct?

Yeah, pull the snorkel, have a ride around, then come back and let us know what you think. BTW, what time/day is it there now? It's 5pm/Monday in Hawaii.

[Viper-Byte]

Yep, I do and I have gone through the whole thread on this on KF and posted in there that I have the issue and checked everything they suggest in there. I also linked my dealer to the thread.

I plan on it

It is just over 4PM Tuesday here. Wow, almost a full day a head of you!

[kkim]

cool... still early for you. Go pull the snorkel and let us know the results.

[noche_caliente]

Originally Posted by Viper-Byte

Yep, I do and I have gone through the whole thread on this on KF and posted in there that I have the issue and checked everything they suggest in there. I also linked my dealer to the thread.

I plan on it

It is just over 4PM Tuesday here. Wow, almost a full day a head of you!

It's so weird that you're only 1 time zone, but 23 hours apart!

[kkim]

Originally Posted by noche_caliente

It's so weird that you're only 1 time zone, but 23 hours apart!

international date line?

[Viper-Byte]

Originally Posted by kkim

cool... still early for you. Go pull the snorkel and let us know the results.

Yeah, just got to finish work first! Though I only have 15 mins.

Originally Posted by noche_caliente

It's so weird that you're only 1 time zone, but 23 hours apart!

I know, I was surprised myself at first as I didn't think the time gap was that big.

[noche_caliente]

Originally Posted by kkim

international date line?

well, yes, I realize that, but it's just weird conceptually - so close, yet so far.....

[Viper-Byte]

Originally Posted by noche_caliente

well, yes, I realize that, but it's just weird conceptually - so close, yet so far.....

Don't you mean so close, yet so long

[Viper-Byte]

Right, snorkel removed and I have mixed emotions about it...

The good: It sounds so good with the deep rumbling, specially on WOT

The bad: it has degraded the low end performance badly, is still fine for taking off, but it is REALLY noticable how it has reduced the power. The mid and high have also been affected, but not as much as the low from what I could tell.

I guess the requirement is to shim the carbs?

[kkim]

hmmm... yes, the fix would be to shim the carbs. sorry to hear the results were not what you were expecting (or me either, for that matter). It should have at least gave the top end an easier run to redline... did it do that? I can see where it might have affected the midrange a bit.

You can stick the snorkel back in, but like I said, it is a bit of a pain. I lubed mine up good with a rubber protectorant to make it slippery to slide back into place. I went from the inside of the airbox and pulled it back out to reinstall. Take out the filter when you do for more hand room.

sorry, man.

[Viper-Byte]

Yeah, I was expecting a drop in performance, just not that much. No matter, I can shim the carbs Yes, it felt like once it hit the 9-13, it was smooth, it seemed very close to stock, now that I think about it, the top was a lot smoother, but I still think it lost a little power (I can't really tell over that run as the wind was really bad and affected the feel of the bike at high speed)

Will it be fine to ride to work with it running as it is now, or would you suggest shimming before riding anymore with the snorkel out?

It's all good, all engines are different

[kkim]

Was there any stuttering or hesitation in the mid range while cruising? (a definite sign the bike is lean) How about start up? Any differences there?

If not, you should be good to ride. I ran around with one shim, a full AreaP exhaust and the snorkel out and the bike would hesitate while cruising. Adding more shims cured my problem.

[Viper-Byte]

While crusing at a constant speed, and accelerating, no, it is fine, it doesn't hesitate as such, it just takes a while to wind up till it hits the upper mid range. I tested it in 3 and 4th gears and going from constant throttle to WOT starting at 4.5K and going to about 9k and it is slow from 4.5k to about 6.5-7k, where it starts to get more power down. Startup is fine, no change there, idle is fine, it seems to only be the lower range where most of the power is lost causing a bit of a lag.

Oh OK, can you define what you mean by hesitate? so I know if we are talking the same symptoms.

[kkim]

I guess "hesitate" could be described as a sort of pronounced lag. Twist the throttle and it takes some time before the engine will "catch" to spin up. It sounds like your bike is now just a bit lean in the midrange, but still rideable. When I got mine, stock, it had no power under 6k and very little top end above 11k.

I would say you are safe to use the bike. As a precaution, listen for any signs of pinging (denotation) on hard acceleration, but I really doubt you will hear any. I never heard any on my bike, with all the different jetting configurations it's been through, so this is strictly a precaution.

[Viper-Byte]

Hmm, yes, I guess it is hesitating a little in the low-mid range in that case, so, sounds like there is shimming to be done! Oh OK, sounds like you got one that was really not set well from the factory!

Cool, it would be a pain to put the snorkel back in for a day and pull it out again. I didn't notice any while testing it, though it does have a sort of tick to it in the mid-high range, this was even before the snorkel was removed (about 8-10K I THINK, I have not taken much notice of it)

[Viper-Byte]

*recovers from heart attack* I have just seen the price of the 2 bros full carbon fibre exhaust from a NZ store. $1600 NZD!! Needless to say, I am looking at other places. (yes, I know it is the AreaP I want, but that was to get a rough price of a full system...)

[kkim]

The AP will run you about $1000 in NZD. That is the reason I went with Area P after comparing the quality, price and performance to the other systems available. Kerry, the owner/founder of Area P, is a member of this board, in case you didn't know.

[Viper-Byte]

Ah, cool, that is great as I was wanting to spend about NZD$1000 max on the exhaust system. I have already emailed them via website asking for a quote including shipping to NZ.

Oh OK, cool. What is his username?

[kkim]

kbryant

[Viper-Byte]

Kelly, you are correct on the price of the AP, it is just over NZD$1000. I will have to talk with the insurance company and see if they will allow me to put this on before I get it, I know, I should have done that first... if all is good with them, next payday I should be able to order it!

So in short, what I am going to do at present, is put the snorkel back in as it is not nice to ride at low RPMs without shimming and then once I get the AP (dependant on insurance), then I will install the exhaust, pull the snorkel and shim all at the same time.

[kkim]

That sounds like an excellent plan.

Just curious, if you don't mind sharing, what was the price of your bike when you bought it in NZD?

[Viper-Byte]

Yeah, sure. The bike retailed for NZD$6995 + On Road Costs (about another $350) in Winter when I got mine and now the are $7495 +ORC in Summer. Though I got a good deal from the dealer as my grandad has been buying his farm quads from him for years