Jetting on my race bike

nick5446 · February 19th, 2013, 11:09 AM

I've got a 2009 250r race bike that I'm in the process of tuning and re-jetting. Dyno time is crazy expensive, and since the bike isn't street legal, I'm trying to get everything as close as possible before taking it to the dyno. Can you help me try to skip some trial and error? Believe me, I know no two bikes are alike, but any time you can save me at the dyno (about $200/hr and dealing with the jerk who runs it) will be greatly appreciated.

I've read over the Jetting Database and I think I have a pretty good idea of what I need to do, just looking for some affirmation. Can you help me fill in the blanks?

YEAR: 2009

INTAKE MODIFICATIONS: Stock airbox w/ K&N filter

EXHAUST MODIFICATIONS: Slip on DanMoto CF w/ stock header

JET KIT OR STOCK? Stock for now

BRAND OF JET KIT? Probably DynoJet although any experience with the eBay brand 6Sigma? They supposedly build to suit based on your specific info.

MAIN JET: XX

NEEDLE AND CLIP POSITION: XX

MIXTURE SCREW SETTINGS: XX

ELEVATION: 0-100ft

MISCELLANEOUS INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR BIKE’S JETTING SETUP: Nothing special. Race only.

Jiggles · February 19th, 2013, 12:25 PM

Stock airbox and stock headers, shim the needles and your done

alex.s · February 19th, 2013, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Stock airbox and stock headers, shim the needles and your done

you are incorrect, jiggles.

nick5446 · February 19th, 2013, 12:34 PM

Thanks! You guys both have ridiculous avatars.

alex.s · February 19th, 2013, 12:39 PM

it really depends on the atmosphere that you plan on running the bike in. i honestly would just do small changes between rounds at the races if you are able. dyno runs are expensive.

Jiggles · February 19th, 2013, 12:40 PM

Buy and install an AFR gauge, its basically a portable dyno!

Link to original page on YouTube.

alex.s · February 19th, 2013, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Buy and install an AFR gauge, its basically a portable dyno!

correct!

Trailerboy531 · February 19th, 2013, 01:07 PM

If you're racing a ninja 250 and only racing it then you should acquire a full exhaust system. Area P is doing a group buy for their race systems right now on this forum. look around the marketplace.

nick5446 · February 19th, 2013, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Buy and install an AFR gauge, its basically a portable dyno!

Link to original page on YouTube.

I'm going to have to look into those. I've seen them, but never paid much attention. Got any more information you could point me towards?

nick5446 · February 19th, 2013, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trailerboy531

If you're racing a ninja 250 and only racing it then you should acquire a full exhaust system. Area P is doing a group buy for their race systems right now on this forum. look around the marketplace.

Yeah, I know. I'll pick up a header one of these days, just gotta save some $. I really only did the slip on for weight, the performance gain is marginal.

Jiggles · February 19th, 2013, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick5446

I'm going to have to look into those. I've seen them, but never paid much attention. Got any more information you could point me towards?

Well at the dyno, the dyno measures your hp but its not possible to tune without an afr gauge. Shoving one down your exhaust pipe is not the greatest method to get accurate numbers. So long as you don't care about what the actual hp numbers are you can just tune with an afr gauge. If you get your afr to the correct ratios then you will know that your bike is producing the most amount of power possible, you just won't know what that power is.

I got mine from innovate, I think it was under $200, then you have to get it installed, but it is a permanent solution whereas a dyno is a solution for say February 19th, 12:56pm, 46degrees farenheit, 85 feet elevation, Humidty 99%, etc....

nick5446 · February 19th, 2013, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Well at the dyno, the dyno measures your hp but its not possible to tune without an afr gauge. Shoving one down your exhaust pipe is not the greatest method to get accurate numbers. So long as you don't care about what the actual hp numbers are you can just tune with an afr gauge. If you get your afr to the correct ratios then you will know that your bike is producing the most amount of power possible, you just won't know what that power is.

I got mine from innovate, I think it was under $200, then you have to get it installed, but it is a permanent solution whereas a dyno is a solution for say February 19th, 12:56pm, 46degrees farenheit, 85 feet elevation, Humidty 99%, etc....

Yeah that's cool. Like you alluded to, I don't care how much power I've got, just as long as it's the MOST!

What do you want the reading to be?

Jiggles · February 19th, 2013, 02:33 PM

Ideally around 12.6-13.2 but tuning these CV carbs that precisely is really difficult. If you watch my runs my afr goes rich then lean then rich, thats a byproduct of the pod filters I have in there. The stock airbox should be a lot easier to tune

nick5446 · February 19th, 2013, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Ideally around 12.6-13.2 but tuning these CV carbs that precisely is really difficult. If you watch my runs my afr goes rich then lean then rich, thats a byproduct of the pod filters I have in there. The stock airbox should be a lot easier to tune

Yeah I've been looking into it a bit more. Is there a rule of thumb, in terms of max/min, or a certain afr to rpm? I.e. never below 9 or above 16, or at X RPM you should have an AFR of Y.

Jiggles · February 19th, 2013, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick5446

Yeah I've been looking into it a bit more. Is there a rule of thumb, in terms of max/min, or a certain afr to rpm? I.e. never below 9 or above 16, or at X RPM you should have an AFR of Y.

Well no, at WOT you always want an AFR in that range, it kinda depends on the engine as to whats best and I've seen lots of differing opinions, but without EFI its not like you'll be able to tune for 13.0 vs 12.8. If you aren't at WOT its fine if your AFR is higher but you definitely don't want to be WOT in the 14s

nick5446 · February 19th, 2013, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Well no, at WOT you always want an AFR in that range, it kinda depends on the engine as to whats best and I've seen lots of differing opinions, but without EFI its not like you'll be able to tune for 13.0 vs 12.8. If you aren't at WOT its fine if your AFR is higher but you definitely don't want to be WOT in the 14s

Cool, I think that's exactly what I need. My home track has a straight that's about a mile long, so I'll be sitting on the throttle stop for a while.

nick5446 · February 19th, 2013, 04:19 PM

I've still got the issue of experimenting with the AFR gauge with a bike that's not road-legal. Maybe I'll just try to get it close and play with it in between sessions, as mentioned earlier.

abhijitz · February 20th, 2013, 12:06 AM

Hey Jiggles - how do you like the Innovate AFR meter ? I rented the UEGO one and it helped.

February 19th, 2013, 11:09 AM	#1
nick5446 ninjette.org member Name: Nick Location: Portlandia, OR Join Date: Jan 2013 Motorcycle(s): Too many Posts: 29	Jetting on my race bike I've got a 2009 250r race bike that I'm in the process of tuning and re-jetting. Dyno time is crazy expensive, and since the bike isn't street legal, I'm trying to get everything as close as possible before taking it to the dyno. Can you help me try to skip some trial and error? Believe me, I know no two bikes are alike, but any time you can save me at the dyno (about $200/hr and dealing with the jerk who runs it) will be greatly appreciated. I've read over the Jetting Database and I think I have a pretty good idea of what I need to do, just looking for some affirmation. Can you help me fill in the blanks? YEAR: 2009 INTAKE MODIFICATIONS: Stock airbox w/ K&N filter EXHAUST MODIFICATIONS: Slip on DanMoto CF w/ stock header JET KIT OR STOCK? Stock for now BRAND OF JET KIT? Probably DynoJet although any experience with the eBay brand 6Sigma? They supposedly build to suit based on your specific info. MAIN JET: XX NEEDLE AND CLIP POSITION: XX MIXTURE SCREW SETTINGS: XX ELEVATION: 0-100ft MISCELLANEOUS INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR BIKE’S JETTING SETUP: Nothing special. Race only.

February 19th, 2013, 12:25 PM	#2
Jiggles Jigglin' your Jiglets Name: Sean Location: San Jose, Ca Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 K1300S, 2013 Ninja 300, 2011 Ninja 250R, Faster than Unregistered's ninjette Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 1 MOTM - Apr '13	Stock airbox and stock headers, shim the needles and your done __________________________________________________ If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs

February 19th, 2013, 12:39 PM	#5
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	it really depends on the atmosphere that you plan on running the bike in. i honestly would just do small changes between rounds at the races if you are able. dyno runs are expensive. __________________________________________________

February 19th, 2013, 12:40 PM	#6
Jiggles Jigglin' your Jiglets Name: Sean Location: San Jose, Ca Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 K1300S, 2013 Ninja 300, 2011 Ninja 250R, Faster than Unregistered's ninjette Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 1 MOTM - Apr '13	Buy and install an AFR gauge, its basically a portable dyno! Link to original page on YouTube. Link to original page on YouTube. __________________________________________________ If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs

February 19th, 2013, 01:07 PM	#8
Trailerboy531 Gear crash test dummy Name: Max Location: South Bay (So. Cal) Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Ninja 250 race bike, 2014 ZX-636r Posts: A lot.	If you're racing a ninja 250 and only racing it then you should acquire a full exhaust system. Area P is doing a group buy for their race systems right now on this forum. look around the marketplace. __________________________________________________ CVMA #531

February 19th, 2013, 12:34 PM	#4
nick5446 ninjette.org member Name: Nick Location: Portlandia, OR Join Date: Jan 2013 Motorcycle(s): Too many Posts: 29	Thanks! You guys both have ridiculous avatars.

February 19th, 2013, 02:33 PM	#13
Jiggles Jigglin' your Jiglets Name: Sean Location: San Jose, Ca Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 K1300S, 2013 Ninja 300, 2011 Ninja 250R, Faster than Unregistered's ninjette Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 1 MOTM - Apr '13	Ideally around 12.6-13.2 but tuning these CV carbs that precisely is really difficult. If you watch my runs my afr goes rich then lean then rich, thats a byproduct of the pod filters I have in there. The stock airbox should be a lot easier to tune __________________________________________________ If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs

February 19th, 2013, 04:19 PM	#17
nick5446 ninjette.org member Name: Nick Location: Portlandia, OR Join Date: Jan 2013 Motorcycle(s): Too many Posts: 29	I've still got the issue of experimenting with the AFR gauge with a bike that's not road-legal. Maybe I'll just try to get it close and play with it in between sessions, as mentioned earlier.

February 20th, 2013, 12:06 AM	#18
abhijitz ninjette.org sage Name: Abhijit Location: San Francisco Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): Many Two Wheels .. Posts: 611	Hey Jiggles - how do you like the Innovate AFR meter ? I rented the UEGO one and it helped. __________________________________________________ [ex-AFM #828 \| SMUSA #828 \| Sponsors : MotionPro \| LeoVince \| Insurrection Racing Gloves \| QstarZ Laptimers + OEM Parts @ 30-40% OFF : Harry @ 1-877-437-1631,17 harry@hondaeasttoledo.com

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