First Time Maintenance

[Kruse08]

This thread is just a way for me to tell the community that I am going be to tackling all the maintenance for my bike. I have already taken care of a lot but the major stuff is getting ready to happen. I contemplated taking it to a shop and having them do it but then I re-watched videos over and over and decided I would do it. Going to be doing a valve adjustment, carb clean/sync, new sprockets and chain, swing arm service, will be adding in a fuel filter and there may be some other stuff. Will be having a shop mount new tires on. Just wanted to tell people of my new chosen path.

[Ghostt]

I'm here if you need any tips, advice, etc...

Don't waste your hard earned money on the dealership, or shops, this bike is so easy to work, it practically works on itself.

Even mounting tires is an easy DIY assuming to have the proper tools, and as far as balancing goes, use DYNABEADS!!!! They do what they say, and you'll never have to worry about balancing again til the next new pair of tires.

I've heard others say they even took their wheels to a Wal-Mart auto center, to just break the bead which is the hardest part.

Too bad it's not the summer time, a nice ride up to Cleveland sounds good to me, yes I do make house calls occasionally.

IF YOU REBUILD IT, YOU WILL BE AWESOME

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[dcj13]

Cool! This could be the headwaters of a Dynabead thread! Haven't seen one of those for a few years: they're kinda fun!

[Kruse08]

Ghostt, thanks, shoot me an offer for the parts as well. Appreciate the handout. I am not to worried about it as I love to tinker and get the hands dirty. You are more then welcome to drive on up and give me a hand. Nice garage to work. Most of this stuff will e happening here before spring or at least that is the goal.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by dcj13

Cool! This could be the headwaters of a Dynabead thread! Haven't seen one of those for a few years: they're kinda fun!

That is can of worms, like and oil thread, but in the end math, facts, and psychics WINS

[dcj13]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

That is can of worms, like and oil thread, but in the end math, facts, and psychics WINS

They work great! But with an added weight penalty at the the largest distance from the axle (greater un-sprung weight, greater mass moment of inertia). If I were going to use the Dynabead principle, I'd use a couple of ounces of lead shot (price: near free).

Physics always wins!

[snot]

You will save some $$ doing it yourself. So, more $$ for upgrades and add one.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by dcj13

They work great! But with an added weight penalty at the the largest distance from the axle (greater un-sprung weight, greater mass moment of inertia). If I were going to use the Dynabead principle, I'd use a couple of ounces of lead shot (price: near free).

Physics always wins!

Okay? But as you stated mass is mass so an ounce is an ounce, either lead, DYNABEADS, feathers, etc...... The recommend amount is 1 oz front, and 2 oz rear tires.

And if your gonna use that weight penalty/unsprung argument, what about the regular old school weighs that attaches on the outer part of the rim??

I think you see where I'm going with all this, in the end it all comes down to personal preferences, my preference is dynabeads, cheap, easy to use, and always self-balancing the tires, with no need to rebalance til you get new tires.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by snot

You will save some $$ doing it yourself. So, more $$ for upgrades and add one.

damn skippy brother

If you save enough money, you can do this modification,

[dcj13]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

Okay? But as you stated mass is mass so an ounce is an ounce, either lead, DYNABEADS, feathers, etc...... The recommend amount is 1 oz front, and 2 oz rear tires.

And if your gonna use that weight penalty/unsprung argument, what about the regular old school weighs that attaches on the outer part of the rim??

I think you see where I'm going with all this, in the end it all comes down to personal preferences, my preference is dynabeads, cheap, easy to use, and always self-balancing the tires, with no need to rebalance til you get new tires.

No argument here. I respect your preference and your opinion. Dynabeads, lead shot, sand, any liquid that won't boil at hot tire temperatures will work fine. And for the life of the tire. And they continually self-adjust. They work well! Dry sand is free. I might even try one of the above next time I change a tire.

My Ninjette rear wheel is sporting a half ounce (14 grams) of fixed-location weight. Front tire is 3/16ths ounce (10 grams). Never had a motorcycle wheel/tire go noticeably out-of-balance between tire changes. It can happen, though.

[Ghostt]

The one thing I have noticed over my years using dynabeads is there is no tire cupping at all, nice even wear.

On my Ninja 500 i run Kenda K671 tires and get 8k miles out of the rear tire.

On the Ninja 250 I'm running Bridgestone BT45s and I have about 5k and they still have plenty of meat left.

And no cupping or uneven wear.

Also balancing tires the old school way is a PITA compared to adding a small bag of beads during mounting LOL

[dcj13]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

The one thing I have noticed over my years using dynabeads is there is no tire cupping at all, nice even wear.

On my Ninja 500 i run Kenda K671 tires and get 8k miles out of the rear tire.

On the Ninja 250 I'm running Bridgestone BT45s and I have about 5k and they still have plenty of meat left.

And no cupping or uneven wear.

Also balancing tires the old school way is a PITA compared to adding a small bag of beads during mounting LOL

The no-cupping thing is a compelling argument in favor of continual dynamic balance!

I ran several sets of BT45's on my K75 and experienced noticeable cupping on every front tire. Usually fairly early-on and becoming more pronounced as the mileage increased. Unfortunately, I can't find sets of the BT45's for the K75 anymore, so I'm running the Spitfire S11's now: their tread pattern appears to be immune to cupping.

I, too, have BT45's on the Ninjette with about 2K miles on them. I'll take a look at the front and see if it's starting to cup.

In the name of science, I might remove the fixed weights that I carefully (but quickly and easily) placed on the Ninjette front wheel and add an ounce of lead shot pellets. But, dang it, I'll grimace every time I think about that extra 7/16ths of an ounce spinning as I ride. Oh, the added rotational inertia! (Enjoy mental image of me leaning back and wiping my brow).

By the way, there are some decent YouTube videos that you (the Dynabead proponent) are supposed to suggest we watch touting the virtues of dynamic balancing. The most compelling one (to me, anyway) is the clear plastic water bottle in the hand drill.

[Ghostt]

I just took these, the tires front and rear with Dynabeads(1 oz front/ 2 oz rear) have 4,200 miles on them, see for yourself.

[Kruse08]

This thread has been highjacked, ha it is all good. I am learning about balancing tires.

[Ghostt]

Not really, just getting started on the tricks and tips you might find helpful

[Kruse08]

All the love I am getting by Ghostt is making me all warm in side.

[dcj13]

Yeah. Sorry about the thread drift/hijack. Tires are a big, expensive part of motorcycle maintenance.

When you check/adjust the valves, you might mess up an O-ring on a coolant pipe that goes into the head. The Kawasaki part is about $3 and you won't have it available and you'll be pissed off because you don't have it. But not to worry, because your local auto parts store will have one that works great for about fifty cents. Just bring the messed up one with you so you get the right size.

Stepped (go/no-go) feeler gauges are handy for measuring the valve clearance. If Scott has the Kawasaki part number 57001-1220 valve adjusting tool, ask him nicely to bring it along when he visits!

[Ghostt]

Do yourself a favor and make a list of parts, then place an order with partzilla so when the time or the need comes you have the part needed

O-rings can be tricky to match up properly, due to different I.D. , O.D. diameter, thicknesses, etc... Pick the wrong one, and your screwed.

And on small cheap pieces like O-rings etc... Buy a few, never hurts to have spares, especially O-rings for the oil filter, drain plug crush washers etc....

While these items are cheap, for some reason people don't buy extras.

[dcj13]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

Do yourself a favor and make a list of parts, then place an order...

O-rings can be tricky to match up properly, due to different I.D. , O.D. diameter, thicknesses, etc... Pick the wrong one, and your screwed.

And on small cheap pieces like O-rings etc... Buy a few, never hurts to have spares, especially O-rings for the oil filter, drain plug crush washers etc....

Sage advice! Although sometimes we don't know ahead of time what we're gonna run into.

The first time I checked valves on the Ninjette, I had no idea I'd jostle the coolant pipe with the O-ring. And when it leaked coolant when I was done, I was really annoyed and thought I'd have to get one at the dealer. But that afternoon, I found that a local off-brand tool store had a similar-sized O-ring for 49 cents, so I bought two. It fit and has worked fine for 2K miles.

A year and a half later, I start up my TR6 (car) that had been sitting for a few months. Gas started pouring on the floor. Crap! Turns out, there's a push-fit plug on the bottom of each carb that's sealed with a damned o-ring. What a lousy design! I thought I'd have to order a couple (plus a couple more spares), but guess what? The Ninja coolant pipe O-ring works fine to seal the plugs on the bottom of the TR6 carbs!

Moral of the story, Auto parts stores stock generic O-rings and crush washers for a reason: vehicle manufacturers often (but not always) use standard sized parts. Kawasaki is no exception. Scott is correct: get the stuff you think you'll need ahead of time. And a few extra crush washers.

By the way, the coolant hose O-ring is the same part number as the one used to seal the coolant pipe that goes into the head. Get a couple of extras. (Cycle Gear has 10-packs of the drain plug sealing washers). In a pinch, Lowes, Home Depot, Napa, and other auto parts stores will often have that washer or fastener that will work (or at least get you by until you get the "correct" part.

[flitecontrol]

I applaud the op's determination to do his own maintenance. Tire changing isn't all that hard, and there are loads of videos showing various ways to do it. A vise or large C-clamp is helpful for breaking the bead.

As far as balancing the tires, Ride-On tire sealant does that and helps prevent leaks. You can usually find good deals for it on ebay. Here's a video showing the effectiveness of Ride-On. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqkBfEHYzxw

Once installed according to directions, it stays in place and doesn't make a mess like other tire sealants can do.

[MrAtom]

If you want some determination to do your own work, be on a tight budget like me That way, you'll have no choice. But, to be honest, even if I made a 6 figure income and I had the time, I'd probably still do it myself just because it feels good to say that you do your own work.

[dcj13]

Originally Posted by MrAtom

If you want some determination to do your own work, be on a tight budget like me That way, you'll have no choice. But, to be honest, even if I made a 6 figure income and I had the time, I'd probably still do it myself just because it feels good to say that you do your own work.

Doesn't matter how much one makes. When you do it yourself, you know how well the job was done.
That includes tire mounting and balancing!

[Kruse08]

I am not unfamiliar with maintenance as I have been doing my car maintenance for years. I am just familiar with moto maintenance. So some tasks are daunting since I have never done them before. I hate taking to mechanics as they charge way to much and I would rather learn and be capable of doing it. Built not bought is a great statement. I have always been a kind of person who enjoys having someone else around when doing stuff. It is company and also another set of eyes.

[Ghostt]

Stepped (go/no-go) feeler gauges are handy for measuring the valve clearance. If Scott has the Kawasaki part number 57001-1220 valve adjusting tool, ask him nicely to bring it along when he visits!

If your planning on keeping the bike for a while, add tools, and specialty tools to your shopping list, all else fails you can always sell them if you get rid of the bike.

Sage advice! Although sometimes we don't know ahead of time what we're gonna run into.

Very very true, but if you plan ahead and look at the parts schematics and see what's consumable, and order some extras that will at least cover you mostly.

ALSO, you said you'll be working on those carburetors, before you ttouch that carburetor sync screw, do a bench check first, you'll be amazed how often they don't need it, and if they do, do yourself a HUGE favor and do a beach set, not on the running bike, which leads to inaccurate settings. And the some for setting up the floats, bench set those as well.

[Ghostt]

This is my 2¢ and advice on the carburetors,

You can get a reasonable sync with the carbs in hand. Back the idle adjustment off to close that carb then match the second carb to it with the sync screw. You can then turn the idle adjustment up while using a thin feeler gauge (maybe .002") between the throttle plate and the throttle bore, adjust to just fit, and then check the second one and adjust to match. If you have good feel for this it will run fine once installed.*

It would do folks well to take a minute to review and understand what a sync tool does, how it works. And take another minute to look at the carb linkage and sync adjustments available to fix irregularities that might occur. It can help take some of the mystery out of this as well as stop unnecessary carb sync screwups.*

Meaning, that the carbs were right once, the butterflies were matched and it performed well, but then changed. Undecided And the problem somehow occurred in the butterfly direct shafts, or the sync screw turned or wore that pad that it rests on, or the carburetor pairing/ bridging brackets twisted in relation to each other, and enough so that the butterflies no longer operated in sync, such that performance noticeably suffered. And a fix will be accomplished by changing the butterfly position, the only thing the sync adjustment does. Hmmm. Really? Undecided*

Meanwhile, the tool measures vacuum at each individual runner. That's all it does, how it works. And vacuum is effected by a huge list of things, butterfly position being only one of them, and the only one addressed with that tool while turning those sync screws. The rest of that list includes, valve adjustment, jetting, float level, compression differences between cylinders caused by wear as well as factory CC differences in the head, intake runner, as well as flow by port variations, etc. Variations in cams, wear or factory tolerance. Then there's the potential big one, pilot jets and pilot screw mixture settings. All of those effect the vacuum and will be read by the sync tool, accurately identifyng the difference that exists, and with the only adjustment being used to "correct" the problem, move the butterfly relationship, one to the next.*

It's that clear understanding that has me of the opinion and long time practice to not touch the sync screws on a set of carbs that were right once and were never dismantled from the rack. And jet cleaning as well as float needle changing doesn't require that they be dismantled. And further, if I DID dismantle a set of carbs, I just matched the butterflies on the bench at assembly, using a feeler gauge, and then never touched them again, never gave them another thought.*

That method, properly executed, will have THAT portion of the complete equation, balanced flow to each cylinder in a multi-cylinder/ carb application due to butterfly position, satisfied entirely adequately. And in fact, it has worked for me every time I've done it on every bike (as well as individual runner/ butterfly V-8 intakes, all eight) that I've ever owned or any that I've fixed for others. And the times I fixed for others was usually after an attempt by others to sync the carbs, chasing a problem, or sometimes not even chasing a problem, but one they created wth a sync tool, chasing a problem from that list, that was never a butterfly position change problem. Those linkages are so direct and simple that they don't know how to screw themselves up. Not enough to care about.*

I'm sure this will start a lot of controversy so I won't argue it, just offering it for those who understand the whole picture that I outlined and might make good use of it. It is what I've done, on every engine I ever worked on, including blue printed racing engines as well as regular old, high mileage street stuff. I've had at least four, four cylinder bikes with over 100,000 miles that ran quite well, the whole time, and never had a carb sync performed. When they did finally get a total disassembly, this is how I set them up, on the bench. Over the years I've straightened out at least a half dozen messed up ones, probably more, and on the bench, after fixing the original problem which was fouled pilot jets.*

I only posted this because it seems like its coming up fairly often, especially with problems from a sync gone bad. One I would suggest was never a sync problem to begin with. A big or sudden change in performance is NEVER a sync problem. NEVER. Remember that. Cool If there is a problem, and you connect the gauges? YES, there will definitely be an imbalance indicated. But because that hole has a problem that is from the rest of the list. A bad plug, a plugged pilot jet, a screwed up float, a bad valve or setting, etc. Every one of them effecting the vacuum in the intake but NOT from a sudden move of a butterfly position, a sync adjustment.

****

[Kruse08]

Well Ghostt you have officially lost me. I am new to the world of carbs and have never worked on anything carbed before. That is the single reason I was going to have a shop clean the carbs. My friends dad who I bought the bike from informed me the carbs are synced and the bike runs fine. Does not have any idle isses until it gets cold and then it idles around 1600-1800 rpms. The bike fires right up 99% of the time. So yes, carb work actually scares me because I know it is very easy to mess it all up.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by Kruse08

Well Ghostt you have officially lost me. I am new to the world of carbs and have never worked on anything carbed before. That is the single reason I was going to have a shop clean the carbs. My friends dad who I bought the bike from informed me the carbs are synced and the bike runs fine. Does not have any idle isses until it gets cold and then it idles around 1600-1800 rpms. The bike fires right up 99% of the time. So yes, carb work actually scares me because I know it is very easy to mess it all up.

No need to be scared, just take your time and be methodical in your approach, this also goes for any work on the bike as well. And if you find yourself getting frustrated, stop and take a break, and post up the issue.

You have the advantage of time, this is not your only form of transportation, and you have a place to work on it indoors, not under a tree, so take full advantage of your situation and enjoy what you have, and remember those fellow members that are not so lucky as you.

[Kruse08]

Will do and I posted prices on the parts I have Ghostt if you want to check them out.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by Kruse08

Will do and I posted prices on the parts I have Ghostt if you want to check them out.

That's perfectly fine, PM me too if needed.

[Ghostt]

Do yourself a HUGE favor and buy these

Carburetor Carbon Dirt Jet Remove 10 Cleaning Needles+5 Brushes Tool For Yamaha


http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item...735315&alt=web

As a matter of fact, everyone should buy these

[dcj13]

Originally Posted by Kruse08

...My friends dad who I bought the bike from informed me the carbs are synced and the bike runs fine. Does not have any idle issues...

Why mess with the carbs? They don't normally "go out of tune" unless someone has been monkeying with them. Or they have many 10's of thousands of miles on them. Even then...

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by dcj13

Why mess with the carbs? They don't normally "go out of tune" unless someone has been monkeying with them. Or they have many 10's of thousands of miles on them. Even then...

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Hence my statement in the 2¢ carburetor synchronization, it's mostly about how to properly check them first.

[Kruse08]

I did not get the best maintenance history with the bike. It was taken care of in sorts but I am and have always been the type of person to replace and fix everything just so I know it has been done. I do not want to be driving down the road and have a tie-rod snap on me because I decided it did not need done. My life is at my hands when riding the bike and I can not trust what others tell me about the history. I understand the statement if it is not broken do not fix but I also hate that statement. That is the reason why the brake fluid on my bike was never ever changed and it was the color of black coffee. The person I bought it off lived by that saying and well my bike is not is pristine condition. It is old and all but it was neglected and if it is in my possession then it will be gone over and fixed even it may not need fixed. Everyone is different about everything. Thanks for all the suggestions and everything.

[dcj13]

Black brake fluid is broken (obviously). I like to see brake fluid changed every two years, coolant changed every five years or so. And (also obviously) chains and sprockets should be replaced before they break.

I usually don't consider carburetors a part of "normal" maintenance (an exception is CV carbs with oil-filled dampers). Everyone has their own philosophy as to what is normal maintenance. Some folks consider annual disassembly, cleaning, and dielectric greasing of motorcycle electrical switches to be normal maintenance. And fork oil replacement. And swing arm bearing greasing. And steering head races. And on. Others don't.

I can tell your bike is going to be well loved and well maintained! Enjoy it!

[Ghostt]

It's my personal preference when I pick up a used bike, I go thru everything. For two important reasons, safety, and reliability, in that order.

I trust no one but myself when it comes to those, it's my ass and my money, plain and simple.

Here is a list work I personally did myself on the ZX-2R:

Back in May, I picked up a 98 with 27k miles on it for a great price. The P.O. did nothing except put gas in it, and changed the oil, I think, he did this for about 17k of the total miles.

Needless to say it needed a lot of TLC. I am no stranger to rebuilding bikes, I did my 91 EX500 which was a basket case for sure to say the least, here is the link to see that build:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1006527...KIEX500AkaZX5R

With that said I went through the bike, repairing, replacing, & modifying as I went, with the exception of the engine/transmission that seems solid no noises or smoke.

Here is a link to the evolution as told by pictures.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1006527...IDXyZXyoe2m0QE

Work performed 1998 Kawasaki Ninja 250, aka ZX-2R, aka SERENITY:

Cut and set sag front fork springs(Ninja 500 1st generation, modified rate is now .85kg/mm )*

Replace fork oil 15wt synthetic*

Install new fork seals and dust caps(All Ballz)

Replace rear shock(ZX600C)*

Replace shock oil 15wt synthetic*

Change gears +1/-2 (JT SPROCKETS)

Rebuild/tune carbs, adjust idle mixture*

K&N air filter*

New brake pads F&R(EBC extreme HH)

Wave front rotor*

Used OEM rear rotor*

DIY OEM seat modified(gel/foam insert, Custom Seat Creation cover solo line cf silver/cf metal, & heated seat kit)*

Extra heavy bar ends(Schoolie's 3"/19oz)*

Heated grips w/ foam covers*

Touring windscreen(7 JuRock 18" 73%tint & aggressive flip)*

Shorter bar risers(ZX600c lower about 1 1/2")*

Bridgestone BT-45s 130/90/16 & 100/90/16 w/ Dynabeads

DIY OEM rims natural finish

Stainless steel allen head fasteners *

Stainless steel braided brake lines(Venhill USA)

Shorty adjustable levers*

High performance clutch springs(KG)

Integrated led battery charge / standby indicator(GAMMATRONIX)

LED clock*

HID headlight 55w/5K (DDM Tuning)

Replaced all other bulbs with CREE LEDs*

DIY integrated tail light kit w/ clear lens

DIY rear fender elimination*

DIY licence plate mount(LEDs to illuminate the plate/red CREE LEDs tied into brake light)*

Flush mount front indicators w/duel color Cree LEDs(amber/white)*

Maintenance free gel battery

VisiStop intelligent brake light modulator IBF9 (Comagination)

Compact air horn*

2007 OEM fairings silver(OEM graphics deleted)

Genuine imitation carbon fiber wrap misc parts w/ non-visible clear coat.

Reflective custom decals ZX-2R silver (MaximuSS)

Reflective custom decal NINJA red(taillight lens)*

Reflective rim tape silver*

Electronic turn indicator relay*

Replace front side reflectors with smoke flush mount turn indicators LEDs*

DIY rearview camera system(PYLE)

DIY oil cooler*

Strip paint off grab handle, bare aluminum alloy & installed feelers*

Universal Rear View Side Mirror Rain Board Sun Visor Shade Shield, DIY genuine imitation carbon fiber wrap with non- visible clear coat applied.*

DIY Blue tint mirrors

Black allen button heads for windscreen

Reflective silver graphic on windscreen "SERENITY"

Swing arm plugs from a 2008 & up Ninja 250, painted aluminum.

Michelangelo key enhancement.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1006527...IDXyZXyoe2m0QE

All work, upgrades, modifications, etc... done by yours truly.


All this and full maintenance and rebuild everything else except the motor. I'm sure I'm forget some stuff, but you get the idea

[flitecontrol]

I wouldn't go near a carb with small files (aka "needles") or steel brushes or wires. The brass jets and soft metal passages in the carb are precision made and can be damaged by using such things. I've cleaned a lot of carbs and never needed them to get everything clean. Soaking the metal parts only in Berrymans Chem Dip for 24-48 hours followed immediately by rinsing in water and blowing out every opening or passageway in the carb with high pressure air gets them clean without damaging anything. A sonic cleaner does the job just as well in less time.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by flitecontrol

I wouldn't go near a carb with small files (aka "needles") or steel brushes or wires. The brass jets and soft metal passages in the carb are precision made and can be damaged by using such things. I've cleaned a lot of carbs and never needed them to get everything clean. Soaking the metal parts only in Berrymans Chem Dip for 24-48 hours followed immediately by rinsing in water and blowing out every opening or passageway in the carb with high pressure air gets them clean without damaging anything. A sonic cleaner does the job just as well in less time.

I very good and correct points. I had a set of pilot jets on time that were soo bad even after a 4 day soaking in the Chem-Dip, they were still clogged, so I just got new ones, should have done that from the start, and only $4 a piece.

I have recommended in the past to other, don't waste your time, just get new ones, let's face it, some people don't even remove the of the mains or the emulation tubes as well. I find it interesting what some people call a carburetor cleaning, when all they do is take the bowls off and waste can after can for carburetor cleaner, and call the cleaned. Please that I'm sorry is not cleaning them properly, not even close.

Very few people do it right, with the set for mine I did a complete cleaning, complete disassemble, split them and let them soaking in the Chem-Dip for 3 days, remove them blow out all the circuits with an air compressor, New O-rings, float needles etc... you guys get the picture I'm sure.

While some might call this way too extreme, my answer is I only had to do it once, and they were good to go, better than new

In the end it everyone's choice, I just believe in doing right the first time and be sure it was done correctly.