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Old June 1st, 2016, 10:59 AM   #601
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Personal preference, yes. Burns cleaner, no.

https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/article...ctane-gasoline

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...ion-premium-g/

That being said when I put 94 octane in my bike and ride straight down a wall my 0-60 times plummet.
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Old June 1st, 2016, 11:11 AM   #602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panda View Post
That being said when I put 94 octane in my bike and ride straight down a wall my 0-60 times plummet.
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Old June 1st, 2016, 11:19 AM   #603
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I didn't know they even sell gas without ethanol!

Quote:
Originally Posted by allanoue View Post
No ethanol 87 is best
No ethanol 94 is better than 87 with, but if all grades have ethanol then use 87.

I have 34,000 miles on my '13 300 and it has not seen anything but 87 with ethanol but I do run a tank with seafoam about every oil change and all winter.
I have about 18,000 miles. All on 87 with ethanol. I don't even run seafoam or any other fuel injection cleaners. Ironic, as I'm staring at 3 bottle of seafoam on the shelf right now.

Al, just curious how much you pour in your tank (as a maintenance item)?
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Old June 1st, 2016, 11:22 AM   #604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadd View Post
I didn't know they even sell gas without ethanol!



I have about 18,000 miles. All on 87 with ethanol. I don't even run seafoam or any other fuel injection cleaners. Ironic, as I do have 3 bottle of seafoam on the shelf right now.

Al, just curious how much you pour in your tank (as a maintenance item)?
Both bikes in my garage have 30k+ miles with nothing but 87 pump gas. One of them is 13 years old and I have yet to see any kind of detriment from gas. The other is 7 years old, same thing. I don't use any kind of fuel treatment. They sit for a lot of the winter, only starting up every couple of weeks and run at operating temp for 10 minutes or so to burn off water in the oil.

Follow the directions on the bottle. It's something like one ounce per gallon. One bottle should do something like 4-5 tanks of fuel.
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Old June 1st, 2016, 11:25 AM   #605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadd View Post
I didn't know they even sell gas without ethanol!



I have about 18,000 miles. All on 87 with ethanol. I don't even run seafoam or any other fuel injection cleaners. Ironic, as I'm staring at 3 bottle of seafoam on the shelf right now.

Al, just curious how much you pour in your tank (as a maintenance item)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RacinNinja View Post
Both bikes in my garage have 30k+ miles with nothing but 87 pump gas. One of them is 13 years old and I have yet to see any kind of detriment from gas. The other is 7 years old, same thing. I don't use any kind of fuel treatment. They sit for a lot of the winter, only starting up every couple of weeks and run at operating temp for 10 minutes or so to burn off water in the oil.

Follow the directions on the bottle. It's something like one ounce per gallon. One bottle should do something like 4-5 tanks of fuel.
yes
one once per gallon is correct.
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Old June 1st, 2016, 11:47 AM   #606
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I run whatever is the cheapest option at the pump, I never look at the octane rating. The ony time premium ends up in my tank is when the hose swings around as I'm putting the nozzle in the tank and it hits the button. Happened twice and confused the heck out of me why the pump was ready to go and I hadn't chosen anything yet.

Seafoam only ended up in my tank once, but that was due to being grounded from surgery not from winterizing or anything.

No issues with my engine that I can tell.
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Old June 1st, 2016, 11:53 AM   #607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RacinNinja View Post
Both bikes in my garage have 30k+ miles with nothing but 87 pump gas. One of them is 13 years old and I have yet to see any kind of detriment from gas. The other is 7 years old, same thing. I don't use any kind of fuel treatment. They sit for a lot of the winter, only starting up every couple of weeks and run at operating temp for 10 minutes or so to burn off water in the oil.
That doesn't burn-off moisture in the oil - it adds it.

It takes getting the oil up to operating temp (212F), not the coolant, and having it sit there for more than 10 minutes to burn-off contaminants. Starting-up to burn-off contaminants is counter-productive.

Change the oil before storing, then don't start it again until you are ready to really ride.
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Old June 1st, 2016, 01:24 PM   #608
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Wow thanks for taking so much time to write that up! I apreciate the opinion. It's just in my 20 year old cage Ivery been driving I put 84 in all the time and then just recently I've been putting in 94 and I've noticed huge change but I guess that's because I've gotten used to all the subtleties on the 84, but that's a whole other can of worms. I know the question has been asked a bunch but this forums seems to have resonable people able to accept others opinions so I thought I'd ask myself. I think I have a clear choice that I'm going to run 87 majority and if I ever go through the town that has the option of 94 no ethanol, I'll do it as a treat to my conscience and maybe my bike after I do my research on ignition timing etc.
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Old June 1st, 2016, 01:32 PM   #609
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I'm at work at the moment but I'll read more up when I get home, thanks again guys and gals)

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Old June 1st, 2016, 01:40 PM   #610
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@TheRidingSparky
Chevron supreme may be the only gas without ethanol on the island.
You drive a 20 year old car: buy regular, save your money and get a newer car!
And don't let those people fool you: they're all nasty people!
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Old June 1st, 2016, 02:01 PM   #611
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adouglas pretty much nailed it, I'll add the things he didn't touch on.

Octane rating... what does Octane in gasoline actually do? Why do we want it in the blend? Octane SLOWS the rate of combustion... yes you read that right, slows the rate of combustion. This is needed in high compression, high performance engines. Nearly all production cars and trucks do not fall into this category. Some high performance motorcycle engines do... but you need to be in about the 12 - 1 or 13 - 1 compression ratio before higher Octane is helpful or needed. Most cars run 9 - 1 and even high performance bikes may run 11 - 1

increased Octane will not give you more horse power out of the same engine... well, not at a noticeable amount anyway. Your engine may run cleaner but that is due to the fact that there are less impurities in your higher grades of gasoline, not the Octane per se'

fuel systems incompatible with ethanol: All manufactures now build their machines to with stand at minimum 10% ethanol in the fuel. Yes, if you have a 1974 BSA Thundbolt with the original natural rubber O-rings in the carbs and case seals... you may have a problem when exposed to ethanol containing fuels. Everyone uses buna-n O-rings today and ethanol exposure is not a problem.

DO NOT run the E85 and E100 fuels in your bike, the fuel to air mix is wrong and can run SERIOUSLY LEAN on those fuels. Oh yeah, it will perform like a scalded dog... for about half an hour, then your engine becomes a boat anchor.

Use any grade with 10% or less ethanol from a reputable retailer who moves a large quantity of product. Beyond that, the choice is up to you.
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Old June 1st, 2016, 03:13 PM   #612
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One difference to note between cars and bikes... Computer-controlled ignitions can detect and adjust for detonation. Your car may actually have multiple "tunes" that are used depending on if you use premium (and therefore have no detonation) or regular (which gives you a little detonation). It's possible that your car is tuned for higher octane gas without you realizing it.

But on a basic engine with no adjustment, an engine that runs fine on a certain octane will not run better (and could possibly run a bit worse even) with higher octane. Higher octane allows you to use a more aggressive tune, which makes more power. The higher octane itself does not give more power.

It's like spoilers. Fast cars use them, but putting one on a slow car doesn't make it fast.


The biggest question seems to be whether the improvement from using ethanol-free gas outweighs the unnecessary octane. I've seen quite a few opinions on this, but I'm not sure if there's really an objective test to say which is better. Regardless of anything else, I suggest using Fuelly or similar to track your fillups. It will help point out issues with how well your bike is running, as well as objectively tracking how many miles you're getting (as opposed to thinking you were getting about X mpg before, but it seems to be down to Y mpg now). It's easy to enter the info on your phone while you're filling up, or just take a pic of the gas pump/receipt and your odometer and enter it later. Simply trying both gas options for a reasonable amount of time will let you see if there are any performance differences specifically for your bike, though it's going to be hard to measure something like ethanol-induced wear on soft parts.


P.S. Don't listen to me, I think my bike is a 2-stroke.
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Old June 1st, 2016, 03:17 PM   #613
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I'm all about high octane!!!
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Old June 1st, 2016, 04:57 PM   #614
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by cadd View Post
I didn't know they even sell gas without ethanol!........
http://www.pure-gas.org/
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Old June 1st, 2016, 07:20 PM   #615
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Old June 1st, 2016, 08:29 PM   #616
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I use 91 but only because that is the only alcohol free gas I can get around here.

Update: Found some 87 today.

Last futzed with by higear223; June 2nd, 2016 at 08:35 PM. Reason: update
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Old July 8th, 2016, 01:54 PM   #617
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Interesting study released by AAA today. Yes - 87 octane is the right answer for our ninjettes (and any other vehicle that is spec'd for regular fuel). But - the quality of the additive package between off-brand cheap gas, and the known majors, does show a measurable difference in engine performance. The underlying gas is a commodity. The end fuel we consumers purchase at the pump can differ.

link to news story on CNN

Direct link to full study released by AAA (PDF file)

Link to top-tier retailers
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Fuel-Quality-Full-Report-FINAL-1.pdf (3.77 MB, 0 views)
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Old July 8th, 2016, 02:07 PM   #618
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Interesting articles.

Keep in mind that the Top Tier producers will usually use the same additive package in all grades - so going to Premium isn't giving you anything but more octane (that you don't need).

Some (Shell or Amoco I think) claim to have more detergent in their Premium grade, but I'm pretty sure that's compared to a competitor and not to their other grades.
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Old July 8th, 2016, 02:27 PM   #619
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I ran my car on supermarket gas for years and ended up with pink/red deposits on my plugs*. What that means I know not, but a couple of tanks of non supermarket gas and they normalized.

* like this
http://s290.photobucket.com/user/mbm...ed239.jpg.html
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Old July 8th, 2016, 02:37 PM   #620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjinsky View Post
I ran my car on supermarket gas for years and ended up with pink/red deposits on my plugs*. What that means I know not, but a couple of tanks of non supermarket gas and they normalized.

* like this
http://s290.photobucket.com/user/mbm...ed239.jpg.html
Waaaaa.......?!?!?!

That's MMT, Manganese based octane booster tho.
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Old July 8th, 2016, 04:26 PM   #621
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
Some (Shell or Amoco I think) claim to have more detergent in their Premium grade, but I'm pretty sure that's compared to a competitor and not to their other grades.
Shell states clearly that they include a higher proportion in their premium grades than they do in their regular grades.

Quote:
What makes Shell V-Power NiTRO+ Premium Gasoline different than other Shell grades?

Shell V-Power NiTRO+ contains the highest concentration of the Shell Nitrogen Enriched Cleaning System and cleans up faster than Shell regular. In fact, Shell V-Power now contains seven times the amount of cleaning agents required by federal standards. The new Shell V-Power NiTRO+ formulation contains an innovative combination of two key cleaning agents that work together in harmony to provide the BEST TOTAL engine protection you can get. It provides unbeatable protection against gunk and corrosion, and superior protection against wear.
source from shell's website
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Old July 8th, 2016, 09:06 PM   #622
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Interesting. I guess I'm glad we stopped using the off-brand stations. We had a car a while back that was picky, so we learned there is a difference. One of my coworkers got bad gas in his Goldwing from an off-brand place, so I was reaffirmed in my
habit of paying for brand name gas.
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