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Old April 16th, 2015, 12:19 PM   #1
bmurray
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Exclamation 2004 will not rev over 4-5k, bogs down, not rideable

Hey friends! Thanks for the all the information you have given me so far from reading your posts.

Last fall, I snapped my clutch cable. I was really slow at getting the new one on, so the bike ended up sitting for a couple months. Wouldn't start after that, so it sat for another few months, until I came out of hibernation. Cleaned the carbs (I'll go into that in more detail further down the post) and got it started, but it seems to be far from rideable.

Here are the symptoms:

Uneven idle

Whenever I try to turn the throttle too much, it bogs down and will stall if I stay on the throttle

If I am very gentle with the throttle, it will rev up to 5k, but won't stay there.

When fully choked, it will go up to 7k rpm, but is uneven like the idle.


Here is what I've done so far:

Emptied gas tank

Took off the carbs

Removed jets

Wire and spray cleaned jets

Put it back together, same problem.

Next, I replaced the battery (probably unnecessary) and the spark plugs

Problem persists

Today, I took off the carbs again:

Dipped all removable metal parts in berryman's

Used carb repair kit to replace float bowl gasket, float pin, washers, ect. (don't know what the other pieces were, but they all had to do with the A/F mixture screw)

tightened new mixture screw all the way, and then back 2 1/2 turns.

Put carbs back in, same problem.



Things I think it might be, but I don't know enough about:

Something electrical

Vacuum issue

Petcock problem



Any ideas?? Thanks!
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Old April 16th, 2015, 12:41 PM   #2
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Had a peek inside the airbox? Any critters or debris in there?
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Old April 16th, 2015, 12:51 PM   #3
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For starters your in need of a complete and meticulous carburetor cleaning, and checking the petcock for proper operation.

Did you verify all fuel circuits were clear, with an air compressor? Remove all jets and holders? Install the slides proper? Check for vacuum leaks? Check and set float height? Tune idle mixture screws? any and all modifications? Etc....

What experience do you have with carburetors, more importantly motorcycle carburetors.

Pilot jets have incredibly small/orifices, when in doubt replace, if you parts or services PM @ducatiman for your needs, and is prices are very inexpensive.
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Old April 16th, 2015, 03:08 PM   #4
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Assuming your carb cleaning was done as Ghostt noted, I would take a good look at you carb vacuum diaphragms for damage or improper installation.

See if you can reach into the carbs, with the engine off, and lift the slides. Lift them gently and see if they drop smoothly and consistently.
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Old April 16th, 2015, 04:39 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
Had a peek inside the airbox? Any critters or debris in there?
Yeah there is some debris. Related?

Ghostt: I didn't set float height, didn't check for vacuum leaks. I'll read up on that and do it. Also did not check petcock for proper operation. It's all stock as far as I know. I'll reply after I check those 3 things.

The slides drop nice and evenly like you say they should, jkv45.
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Old April 16th, 2015, 04:57 PM   #6
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Float height is the most overlooked and important part of carburetor tuning, it's also the very first step, if those are not right, everything else is pointless.
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Old April 16th, 2015, 05:02 PM   #7
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Clean out the airbox well, then try starting it without an air filter to see if there's any change.

What type of air filter is in it?
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Old April 16th, 2015, 05:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostt View Post
Float height is the most overlooked and important part of carburetor tuning, it's also the very first step, if those are not right, everything else is pointless.
I agree, but I had an interesting conversation about my Mikuni Flatslide with a tech from Sudco (Mikuni distributor). The subject of changing the float level came up, and I said - "won't changing the float level effect the mixture?".

His answer was "No".

Not sure if I believe that or not, but I was surprised to hear it, as I always figured the higher the level the quicker/easier the fuel would be pulled-up from the bowl - making the mixture richer.
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Old April 16th, 2015, 05:17 PM   #9
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I had something kinda similar happen when I had part 16017 upside down.

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Old April 16th, 2015, 05:18 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
Clean out the airbox well, then try starting it without an air filter to see if there's any change.

What type of air filter is in it?
Pretty sure it is stock. Just a flimsy 1/2 inch sheet of foam with a plastic holder.

Round 2 of diagnostics commences on Saturday! Here is my list:

Check petcock by applying suction to tube until gas starts flowing out of it
Clean airbox and try to run without filter
Check for vacuum leak by spraying starter fluid near carb-airbox boots

If all else fails:

Pull off carbs and check float height.

Anything else I can try this saturday?
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Old April 16th, 2015, 05:22 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
I agree, but I had an interesting conversation about my Mikuni Flatslide with a tech from Sudco (Mikuni distributor). The subject of changing the float level came up, and I said - "won't changing the float level effect the mixture?".

His answer was "No".

Not sure if I believe that or not, but I was surprised to hear it, as I always figured the higher the level the quicker/easier the fuel would be pulled-up from the bowl - making the mixture richer.
If too high, it will pull too much, flood, effect others as well.

Too low, not enough fuel, etc.....
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Old April 16th, 2015, 09:20 PM   #12
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I had something kinda similar happen when I had part 16017 upside down.

16017 is the port that the needle goes into, correct? Just kind of sits there when you take the diaphragm/slide/needle out? Pretty sure mine it too wide on the short side to mistakenly put it the wrong way. The long side fits nicely.
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Old April 16th, 2015, 09:35 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmurray View Post
16017 is the port that the needle goes into, correct? Just kind of sits there when you take the diaphragm/slide/needle out? Pretty sure mine it too wide on the short side to mistakenly put it the wrong way. The long side fits nicely.
Part# 16017 sits between the main jet holder and carburetor body itself. Make sure these are installed properly, If I remember correctly the tapered side goes up, and should be easily seen in the carburetor bore.

Stupid question time, have you tried the bike with the airbox hooked up?
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Old April 16th, 2015, 10:16 PM   #14
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iv seen similar problem on a dt400. had erratic rpms, i couldnt get it to red line, and would stall when ever you tried to engage the clutch unless you did it insanely slow. turned out to be bad spark plug wire and plugs.
not sure this is helping.
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Old April 17th, 2015, 07:05 AM   #15
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Ghostt: Yes, airbox has been hooked up (by way of the 2 rubber boots.) There is the hole in the top front of the airbox that sits in a round bracket that looks like it should have a tube, but I don't remember there ever being a tube there. Here is a pic (not mine, found it on GIS):


fuel664: That might help. When I first checked the spark plugs to see if they were making spark, the spark plug wire came lose from inside the plastic jointed piece. Here is a pic so you know what I'm talking about:



The soft flexible wire came lose from the plastic jointed piece as seen on the left side. I was able to push it back in, and it felt pretty solid. This happened again when I put in my new spark plugs. Anyone know if this a surefire sign of a bad/broken spark plug cable?
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Old April 17th, 2015, 10:29 AM   #16
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Depending on which wire end came loose, it will either screw on, plug end, or you need to remove the nut on the coil part, and then push the wire into the coil, then retighten the nut, not too tight, just snug, also don't forget the small ferrell that fits over the wire itself.
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Old April 17th, 2015, 12:48 PM   #17
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yea that was the same spot that was bad on my dt400. bought a 10$ spark plug boot and cleaned corrosion off of the wire and changed spark plug. runs like a champ now.

how good are your boots? is it hard to pull spark plug out or does it kind of just sit on top of the plugs? im not sure if all ninjas are like this but i have to wrestle for 5-10 sec with mine to get off because the are so tight. and start checking further back along the electrical components. if your carbs are as clean as you say then its either air or spark. check your valve clearance also.
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Old April 17th, 2015, 04:53 PM   #18
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Disassembling the caps themselves, and clean them, also need to refresh the wire connections, y taking them off, trimming just enough to have fresh wire, the reinstall them.

Another overlooked part of maintenance, those plug caps get a lot of gunk in them.

Write up for the EX500, but still applies to the Ninjette

Quote:
Short explanation: The inside of the hard plastic caps accumulate crud the can short out the spark. This can cause rough running or failure to start. Every time you do any work on the bike: remove them disassemble and clean them and renew the wires or at least the connections.

The long Explanation, Warning engineering information can cause Drowsiness.
The ancient cylinder design of the EX engine dictates that the spark emanate form the center of the combustion chamber. In order to get it there, the plugs had to be located down deep in a well between the cams. This well is a perfect place for dirt and moisture to accumulate. Then because there is no cooling water at this point the metal around the plug runs very hot. Surround this with the large amount of cool metal and you have a recipe for condensation. Further exaggerating the situation we have two leaky coolant connections that drip coolant into the wells. Now K did drill a drain hole between the fins to help (a little) but it often gets plugged up.

The moisture boils off the base of the plug and the vapor condenses on the cool plastic cap and the plug insulator. This moisture forms a easier path for the electrons to ground than jumping the gap at the plug to make a spark. Misfire.
This issue is right up there with Pilot jets as a cause of trouble.
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Old April 18th, 2015, 09:31 PM   #19
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Only had time to do the wires (clipped, cleaned with contact cleaner) and try to run it without the air filter today. No change in the symptoms.

Last futzed with by bmurray; April 19th, 2015 at 09:44 AM.
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Old April 19th, 2015, 09:37 PM   #20
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Have to verified float height? Are you sure all the jets orifices, and jet holders are clear? Have to verified all fuel circuits are clear with an air compressor??

Once again I suggest getting in touch with @ducatiman
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Old April 19th, 2015, 09:49 PM   #21
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jets arent the only things you need to clean. there are a bunch of passageways in the carb that need to be clear. those need to be cleaned just as well as the jets. get some compressed air.

also watch out for intake manifold leaks, vacuum leaks, clogged choke circuit, and the correct mixture fuel/air
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Old April 19th, 2015, 10:05 PM   #22
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Okay here's a long shot, but try it with the gas cap open, and see if that changes anything??
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Old April 19th, 2015, 11:18 PM   #23
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some basic things to try:
-inspecting you carb boot clamps for cracks and tears. spray them down with wd 40 or water while the engine is running. see if rpms change any
- try running the engine with and without the air filter see if that makes any difference
- check and read your spark plugs (google images how to read them)
- make sure your carbs are synced
- make sure all wires are firmly connected, including the two wires on coils

did you mess with anything when you replaced your clutch cable?
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Old April 20th, 2015, 07:28 AM   #24
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16017 is the port that the needle goes into, correct? Just kind of sits there when you take the diaphragm/slide/needle out? Pretty sure mine it too wide on the short side to mistakenly put it the wrong way. The long side fits nicely.
Part 16017 is held in place by 13091. You have to install it from the bottom. If you install it from the top by the needle, then it only goes in upside down.
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Old April 20th, 2015, 01:53 PM   #25
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If weather permits, I'll take a long look at the carbs tomorrow. Maybe some pictures and videos for you guys if the problem persists.
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Old April 21st, 2015, 01:02 PM   #26
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cookiebug79: You were right, I had to install Part 16017 from the bottom, I thought they just sat right in the carb bore!

Looks like I don't have to convert the Ninjette into an electric motorcycle after all.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions everyone!

*Rides off into sunset*
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Old April 21st, 2015, 03:11 PM   #27
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Sweet! I'm glad that worked out for you!
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Old April 21st, 2015, 03:13 PM   #28
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cookiebug79: You were right, I had to install Part 16017 from the bottom, I thought they just sat right in the carb bore!

Looks like I don't have to convert the Ninjette into an electric motorcycle after all.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions everyone!

*Rides off into sunset*
Yet another success story courtesy of Jen.

Good on ya, girl!

Ride on,

J~
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Old April 21st, 2015, 03:34 PM   #29
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Yet another success story courtesy of Jen.

Good on ya, girl!

Ride on,

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Thanks Jeff!
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Old April 21st, 2015, 10:14 PM   #30
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Awesome
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Old March 11th, 2016, 01:41 PM   #31
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Exclamation bogging/sputtering in heavy rain

Hey guys i'm having a similar issue. My 03 is bogging down in the rain.. It has had an issue with an unsteady idle in cold weather but the other day it seemed to be running just fine. Until it started raining really heavy. It started sputtering as if i was running out of gas while i was splitting lanes on the freeway in heavy rain. Pulling the clutch in and peppering the throttle seemed to help it out, but it was def choking up and not getting gas properly or maybe water getting in the system somehow? I ended up having to pull over because it died on me. Managed to start it back up and just had to play with it on back roads the whole way home. When i got closer to home i noticed either smoke or steam coming up from between the forks near the radiator. The temp gauge was ice cold, she hadn't even really warmed up. Seemed like the sputtering started in 3rd gear and up. Any ideas where to start wrenching first?
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Old March 11th, 2016, 01:57 PM   #32
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Sounds like water leaking past the filler cap, and a clogged drain line.



Check the tank vent, it's the nipple on the back of the tank, take an air compressor and disconnect the hose on the back, then blow air thru the hose, and then into the tank vent nipple, be sure the cap is open.

I've had this happen on my EX500, the vent line was clogged.

If the drain was clogged then unfortunately the gas in the tank has water in it, so just dump that out, and refill with fresh gas.

Also might want to check the spark plug caps, and HT leads too, most likely they need to cleaned, and renew the HT leads. Write-up available apon request.

If you don't already have an inline fuel filter, now it the time to install one. If you already have one, change it.

Most motorcycle shops have these for a few $$$.

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