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Old September 20th, 2022, 02:47 PM   #1
Norway
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wear and tear after 63757 km / 39617 miles

I bought my 250 R new in February 2012, and except two 12 month periods (2015-2016 and 2021-2022) it has been used for my daily 80 km / 55 miles commute. I have had it serviced roughly every 6000 km, according to schedule. Until now, I was told from the workshops servicing it that it never needed any valve adjustments. Now the exhaust valves had to be adjusted.
I have replaced a couple of lightbulbs and cured leaking fork seals twice, using the Sealmate tool. Apart from that, I just followed the service program, and changed tires, chain and sprockets.
I paid the 11557 NOK service bill today, included 7.25 work hours. (11557 NOK is about 1200 USD for the moment.
Now I was told that the following parts are worn, and soon ready for replacements:
* both brake rotors (just about 4 and 4.5 mm)
* clutch (plates and springs?)
* rear brake caliper (was worn and "sticking")
* rear wheel bearing
The bike has been treated well, and I'm in my fifties and finished with driving like a cartoon character and like I have eternal life.

I was surpriced to hear that the clutch is nearing the end of it's life, and that the brake rotors are this worn. Maybe that's just because I lack knowledge, and not because the workshop is hoping to grab my money from me soon asking to replace the mentioned parts..

Does this sound normal? Shouldn't a clutch normally last much longer than about 40 000 miles, for example?
Brake rotors?

Any others that would like to share their experiences?
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Old September 20th, 2022, 07:20 PM   #2
CZroe
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My new clutch cable had no adjustment range remaining at 32,000 miles, meaning my clutch was probably wearing out (not a stretched cable). The cable was new because the first one frayed and broke several thousand miles earlier. After buying the new one I got the old one repaired and continued using it to preserve the new one.

I had to replace the brake pads about four times and the rotors twice, though I think something went wrong with the first replacement causing abnormal wear. When I changed the pads once myself I could tell that my calipers were not looking too good with lots of pitting and wear on the pistons… though I wasn’t equipped to deal with it and just had to do a pad-slap. Still, the dealer’s service center just slapped the next set of pads on there and didn’t say anything about the condition of the rest as if there was nothing to be concerned with. This was all over ten years ago when I was still commuting daily on the bike (purchased new).

Other things that needed replacement in that time:
Every rubber wellnut except the two visible on the windscreen (same size; different part number).
The rubber trip reset button cover on the gauge cluster.
The rubber bumpers on the passenger seat (never fully installed by the factory so they fell out)
The battery.
The fork seals.
Tires (of course).
Petcock (replacement failed too after zero miles but years of storage)
Cam chain tensioner (mine developed a noisy cam chain until replacing/resetting this)

My valves needed to be adjusted when we checked around 29,000 but I don’t know what the service centers found in the past valve checks. I always asked for the measurements before/after but they never gave any.

Last futzed with by CZroe; September 21st, 2022 at 10:40 AM.
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Old September 20th, 2022, 09:53 PM   #3
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If this is 1st valves needed to be adjusted, that's very good! On my 2008 race-bike valves needed adjustment @ 15K-miles after 3-seasons of racing. After 3 more seasons and 7K more miles, they look good and won't need adjusting for quite while.

I replaced original front brake-rotor at 12K-miles, it was only 1/2 worn. I upgraded to Galfer 420-stainless rotors. After 5 race seasons and 3 sets of semi-metallic pads, they show ZERO wear, no ridges or grooves anywhere that could be felt or seen. Last year I upgraded brakes again to larger 310mm rotors.

Clutch life... depends upon how smoothly you shift and match RPMs. I slip clutch very little to start and do clutchless shifting up & match revs on downshifts so there's little slippage. On original clutch at 22K-miles. I did upgrade to stiffer Barnett clutch springs in beginning. You might want to try loosing clutch cable slightly to put engagement point in centre of travel.

All service items you're facing can be done at home easy with instructions from service manual. You should at least review procedures to be familiar with what's involved. Also wouldn't hurt to get second opinion for fixing these at another shoppe.
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Old September 21st, 2022, 05:41 AM   #4
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The factory glued the rubber dampers onto the rear seat pan because they kept falling off, but this was a factory error. The real issue was that they weren’t fully seated.

During installation the damper would bottom out against the plastic seat pan before the rubber plug pops all the way through the mounting hole. The proper solution is to twist while maintaining pressure so that the plug will finish working through. They never fall out once fully-seated… WITHOUT glue.

The factory glue would eventually fail and the damper would get lost or end up deep inside the bike… if you were lucky. Even then you couldn’t see/reach it and wouldn’t know to look. The assemblers might’ve fixed this by 2012 but it was definitely an issue for years.

Last futzed with by CZroe; September 21st, 2022 at 10:55 AM.
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Old September 29th, 2022, 03:31 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CZroe View Post
My new clutch cable had no adjustment range remaining at 32,000 miles, meaning my clutch was probably wearing out (not a stretched cable). The cable was new because the first one frayed and broke several thousand miles earlier. After buying the new one I got the old one repaired and continued using it to preserve the new one.

I had to replace the brake pads about four times and the rotors twice, though I think something went wrong with the first replacement causing abnormal wear. When I changed the pads once myself I could tell that my calipers were not looking too good with lots of pitting and wear on the pistons… though I wasn’t equipped to deal with it and just had to do a pad-slap. Still, the dealer’s service center just slapped the next set of pads on there and didn’t say anything about the condition of the rest as if there was nothing to be concerned with. This was all over ten years ago when I was still commuting daily on the bike (purchased new).

Other things that needed replacement in that time:
Every rubber wellnut except the two visible on the windscreen (same size; different part number).
The rubber trip reset button cover on the gauge cluster.
The rubber bumpers on the passenger seat (never fully installed by the factory so they fell out)
The battery.
The fork seals.
Tires (of course).
Petcock (replacement failed too after zero miles but years of storage)
Cam chain tensioner (mine developed a noisy cam chain until replacing/resetting this)

My valves needed to be adjusted when we checked around 29,000 but I don’t know what the service centers found in the past valve checks. I always asked for the measurements before/after but they never gave any.
Thanks for sharing your experiences! Interesting to read. Regarding fork seals, I have cured leaks on my bike twice, using the SealMate tool. https://sealmate.net/
One of my best buys ever.
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Old September 29th, 2022, 03:34 PM   #6
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
If this is 1st valves needed to be adjusted, that's very good! On my 2008 race-bike valves needed adjustment @ 15K-miles after 3-seasons of racing. After 3 more seasons and 7K more miles, they look good and won't need adjusting for quite while.

I replaced original front brake-rotor at 12K-miles, it was only 1/2 worn. I upgraded to Galfer 420-stainless rotors. After 5 race seasons and 3 sets of semi-metallic pads, they show ZERO wear, no ridges or grooves anywhere that could be felt or seen. Last year I upgraded brakes again to larger 310mm rotors.

Clutch life... depends upon how smoothly you shift and match RPMs. I slip clutch very little to start and do clutchless shifting up & match revs on downshifts so there's little slippage. On original clutch at 22K-miles. I did upgrade to stiffer Barnett clutch springs in beginning. You might want to try loosing clutch cable slightly to put engagement point in centre of travel.

All service items you're facing can be done at home easy with instructions from service manual. You should at least review procedures to be familiar with what's involved. Also wouldn't hurt to get second opinion for fixing these at another shoppe.
Thanks.
The valves were checked at 24000 km, 48 000 km and 63800 km. Only at the last occasion I was told that they were out of spec, and therefore adjusted.
Should try and do more of the servicing myself, and checkl out the Galfer discs..
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Old September 29th, 2022, 03:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norway View Post
I bought my 250 R new in February 2012, and except two 12 month periods (2015-2016 and 2021-2022) it has been used for my daily 80 km / 55 miles commute. I have had it serviced roughly every 6000 km, according to schedule. Until now, I was told from the workshops servicing it that it never needed any valve adjustments. Now the exhaust valves had to be adjusted.
I have replaced a couple of lightbulbs and cured leaking fork seals twice, using the Sealmate tool. Apart from that, I just followed the service program, and changed tires, chain and sprockets.
I paid the 11557 NOK service bill today, included 7.25 work hours. (11557 NOK is about 1200 USD for the moment.
Now I was told that the following parts are worn, and soon ready for replacements:
* both brake rotors (just about 4 and 4.5 mm)
* clutch (plates and springs?)
* rear brake caliper (was worn and "sticking")
* rear wheel bearing
The bike has been treated well, and I'm in my fifties and finished with driving like a cartoon character and like I have eternal life.

I was surpriced to hear that the clutch is nearing the end of it's life, and that the brake rotors are this worn. Maybe that's just because I lack knowledge, and not because the workshop is hoping to grab my money from me soon asking to replace the mentioned parts..

Does this sound normal? Shouldn't a clutch normally last much longer than about 40 000 miles, for example?
Brake rotors?

Any others that would like to share their experiences?

After this service the Ninja hasn't been driven many kilometers.
Today the fuel light lit up, at irregular intervals, when I drove towards work.
I stopped at a gas station, noticing that there was plenty of gasoline inside the tank..
I tought it could have something to do with the recent service and drove directly to the dealership. The tank was filled up, some contact was cleaned (they said), and the light stayed off ... until maybe 70-80 kilometers later, on a trip with a friend. It started to light up again, sometimes being off only for a few hundred meters, before lighting up again.
I noticed that it seemed to happen on flat roads or when going downhill, but not when going up a hill (at least in the beginning).
Guess there could be something wrong with a sensor being located in the part of the tank being closest to me / the driver. Will have to search for a way to fix this, whatever the cause could be..

Last futzed with by Norway; September 30th, 2022 at 03:05 AM.
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Old September 29th, 2022, 05:04 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norway View Post
After this service the Ninja hasn't been driven many kilometers.
Today the fuel light lit up, at irregular intervals, when I drove towards work.
I stopped at a gas station, noticing that there was plenty of gasoline inside the tank..
I tought it could have something to do with the recent service and drove directly to the dealership. The tank was filled up, some contact was cleaned (they said), and the light stayed off ... until maybe 70-80 kilometers later, on a trip with a friend. It started to light up again, sometimes being off only for a few hundred meters, before lighting up again.
I noticed that it seemed to happen on falt roads or when going downhill, but not when going up a hill (at least in the beginning).
Guess there could be something wrong with a sensor being located in the part of the tank being closest to me / the driver. Will have to search for a way to fix this, whatever the cause could be..
Sounds like you are replacing my petcock issues with fuel pump issues. The fuel sender is built into the fuel pump on fuel injected bikes, which have no petcock. I had to deal with this in another vehicle recently and lost over 12 gallons of fuel as a result (completely full 25 gallon tank came back half full). That was June/July.

I told the service guys that the fuel pump was fine and I didn’t care about the fuel sender but they insisted on replacing it, claiming it could be causing other electrical issues. I bet one of them got 12.5 gallons of free fuel. I filled up so that I could put a sticky note on the dash telling them “Tank is full; ignore gauge,” since they acted like it was empty and refused to do the test drive the previous time (it was full then too and had a can of fuel in the back). I didn’t expect to be replacing the fuel pump or else I would’ve come in nearly empty with a fuel can.

Wait a second… I just recalled that I had the same fuel can in the back of the van and they told me they put that in the tank “for safety reasons” because the van supposedly “smelled like fuel.” I believe it was my 6 gallon can, meaning I only had 6.5 gallons left in my 25 gallon tank after they drained it! I know it’s difficult to replace the fuel pump when you have to drop a full tank but that was not what it was there for and it certainly doesn’t entitle them to 18.5 gallons of free fuel.

Sorry. This realization has left me very annoyed and I had to vent somewhere!
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Old September 30th, 2022, 04:05 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CZroe View Post
Sounds like you are replacing my petcock issues with fuel pump issues. The fuel sender is built into the fuel pump on fuel injected bikes, which have no petcock. I had to deal with this in another vehicle recently and lost over 12 gallons of fuel as a result (completely full 25 gallon tank came back half full). That was June/July.

I told the service guys that the fuel pump was fine and I didn’t care about the fuel sender but they insisted on replacing it, claiming it could be causing other electrical issues. I bet one of them got 12.5 gallons of free fuel. I filled up so that I could put a sticky note on the dash telling them “Tank is full; ignore gauge,” since they acted like it was empty and refused to do the test drive the previous time (it was full then too and had a can of fuel in the back). I didn’t expect to be replacing the fuel pump or else I would’ve come in nearly empty with a fuel can.

Wait a second… I just recalled that I had the same fuel can in the back of the van and they told me they put that in the tank “for safety reasons” because the van supposedly “smelled like fuel.” I believe it was my 6 gallon can, meaning I only had 6.5 gallons left in my 25 gallon tank after they drained it! I know it’s difficult to replace the fuel pump when you have to drop a full tank but that was not what it was there for and it certainly doesn’t entitle them to 18.5 gallons of free fuel.

Sorry. This realization has left me very annoyed and I had to vent somewhere!
Thanks for the information! Wasn't aware that the fuel sender was part of the fuel pump on FI models. Seems like the parts are shown here https://partsrepublik.com/de/moto/ka...2011/fuel-pump .
If the sensor can't be fixed or acquired as a separate part, I guess I would
need the entire fuel pump if this should be repaired.

I understand your frustration when thinking back on your experiences, so I have no problems with any venting. Just refreshing. ;-)
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Old September 30th, 2022, 09:49 AM   #10
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I've had issues with mechanical fuel-level sender on carby models too. On one, the resistor array wore through and gauge read empty fulltime. Another had some sort of damage to mechanism and it wasn't able to float properly on surface. So level was lower than actual always.

Seems some sort of non-mechanical method would be best. Perhaps laser and sensor-array on rod. Then you can also programme in non-linear height-to-volume ratio.
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Old September 30th, 2022, 11:28 AM   #11
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Well, I just checked the EX250K service manual and even though the fuel pump occupies the same mounting position as the fuel sender in my carb’d bike it doesn’t look like there is a proper fuel sender built into the pump. I mean, it only has two leads, which is the bare minimum to power the pump. Perhaps the ECU can tell when it starts to pump air based on the fuel pressure or resistance through the pump’s power leads or something. I poured over all the stuff about fuel pressure and it never mentions the fuel light being associated with it but maybe there is a clog or restriction in there somewhere.
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Old September 30th, 2022, 04:04 PM   #12
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Yeah, and no fuel-level gauge on EFI models. Just coolant-temp in that location with same fuel-level idiot-light. Not sure how it determines when to turn on..
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Old September 30th, 2022, 04:34 PM   #13
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Yeah. The FI service manual goes on and on about not running the pump more than three seconds without fuel and many of the test/inspection procedures tell you to expect it to turn off after it primes for three seconds. My guess its that it normally turns on for three seconds at a time to pressurize and only stays on longer when needed to maintain pressure under acceleration. If it can’t reach target pressure in three seconds maybe that’s when it throws up a low fuel light.

…but I dunno: then I’d also expect it to preserve the pump by turning off in a few seconds and the bike will stall. That doesn’t seem to be happening here and it would make the light useless! There must be some clever way to tell when it’s running low and turn off the pump before it burns itself out.

Last futzed with by CZroe; October 3rd, 2022 at 03:46 AM.
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Old October 2nd, 2022, 06:35 PM   #14
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On autos, in-tank pump is typically in a well and intake hose is situated at top of well. So even when it starts sucking in air at low-levels, body of pump is still submerged in petrol.

On my Porsche, pump is external to tank without cooling bath. And it even has foam wrapper around it to lower noise levels.

So I guess it's possible to design petrol pump that doesn't require surrounding petrol to stay cool. Not sure what design differences are...
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Old November 20th, 2022, 01:18 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Thanks for the information! Wasn't aware that the fuel sender was part of the fuel pump on FI models. Seems like the parts are shown here https://partsrepublik.com/de/moto/ka...2011/fuel-pump .
If the sensor can't be fixed or acquired as a separate part, I guess I would
need the entire fuel pump if this should be repaired.

I understand your frustration when thinking back on your experiences, so I have no problems with any venting. Just refreshing. ;-)
Oddly enough, the problem with the fuel light turning on when having more than 3/4 of full tank hasn't reappeared. I don't expect this motorcycle to be self-healing, so guess I might see this misbehaviour again next year. Now the 250 is stowed away for winter..
It has been driven about 65000 km / 40000 miles now, with myself as the only owner. Extremely satisfied with the Ninja 250 after all.
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