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Old January 12th, 2022, 03:50 PM   #201
marshallsmith27
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I guess it really is as simple as that
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Old January 12th, 2022, 04:25 PM   #202
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Im going to the harley davidson dealer tomorrow to get new pilot jets and emulsion tubes. the prices there from their huge catalogue is the cheapest place to get keihin parts. one of my emulsion tubes is kind of scuffed up on the bottom near the needle collar
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Old January 12th, 2022, 04:26 PM   #203
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not sure if the emulsion tube not seating 100% on the collar could be doing this. like an imbalance between the two carb bodies. i don’t know if the scuffing on the emulsion tube is bad enough to do that but it’s pretty scratched up. float bowl gaskets were like $3 last time I bought them there
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Old January 12th, 2022, 06:33 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by marshallsmith27 View Post
I’m going to the harley davidson dealer tomorrow to get new pilot jets and emulsion tubes.
an HD dealer will have Kaw CVK30 exact spec emulsion tubes? I'd suggest to bring the old one with you to assure precise match....
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Old January 12th, 2022, 07:41 PM   #205
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they match the ones in my triumph carbs exactly. I measured them with calipers a while back when I pulled the internals from the triumph carbs to put in the kawasaki carbs.

I’ve bought all the parts for my keihin carbs from Harley in the past. For Triumphs. they use the same carb body except the Triumph is dual carb.

The harley catalog has multiple different brands for the same part number. I usually get them to order me EBC. jets are usually around $2
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Old January 12th, 2022, 08:05 PM   #206
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I wouldn't feel good about going to a HD dealer to get parts for my bike at all...
for things like the emulsifier tube in a carb I would go to Kawasaki and only Kawasaki.... if you get an after market cheepo part that doesn't work like the original you'll have problems of all kinds !
besides.. HD is the highest priced place anywhere ! at least they are around here..... buy it online from Kawasaki or a reputable bike shop
some things you can cut corners on, the carbs are not one of those things....
gaskets are.... you can make your own out of a cereal box and have no problems.... or have to re make them again depending how well you did cutting them out LOL..... ( been there done that !)
....yah I think something is amiss somewhere... it was taking throttle and now it's not that denotes a too lean mixture you got a major air leak somewhere !
.... and your emulsifier tube is probably fine scratches hurt nothing
a big dent in it would matter or a chunk out of it, but unless the flow of gas and air mix going out of it...is restricted, or the jet needle gets stuck in it..... those scratches ain't hurting a thing ! so it is probably fine to leave in there.
besides you said it was reving up fine before.... no need to replace it if it was working !....

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Old January 12th, 2022, 08:49 PM   #207
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Why not get Keihin carb parts from HD dealer? If it's same part, should be identical. His pricing is darn good! I've found large selection of Keihin carb parts for Ninjette from Honda dealers too.

Here's good online source for carb parts. But being able to see, touch and measure parts in question can be quite helpful.

https://www.jetsrus.com/index.html
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Old January 12th, 2022, 09:52 PM   #208
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@DannoXYZ that site has everything. I will definitely check that one out in the future. My local family owned shop that’s family friends is a Honda dealer and I have bought a lot of parts from them over the years too for carbs. They work on anything so they always have a decent stock.

And EBC is one of the most reputable parts and replacement parts makers in the world. I have bought so many different parts made by them and never once had a bad experience. They’re made in the UK. I don’t know if all Harley dealers are the same but they only charge me what the catalogue says. Now I may not be able to buy a needle because that is Kawasaki specific but when it comes to other Keihin parts they’re all the same.
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Old January 12th, 2022, 09:55 PM   #209
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I guess tomorrow I am going to take the carbs inside and completely break them apart and see if there’s something I missed this time. It’s possible but I have no idea what I could have done wrong.

I really hate the idea of being beaten by something I have done many times before. I have replaced every o-ring and hose and the enricher diaphragm and the main jets and I will be getting new slow jets tomorrow, new spark plugs. if I have the time
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Old January 13th, 2022, 12:46 AM   #210
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your not beaten till you give up !

Danno.... um because I am an old stick in the mud and have a set way of doing things..... your right though,.... if the part is identical it makes no difference where you get it !

Marshall don't feel bad I know exactly how you feel but the ninja carbs have done a number to me as well the problem on my carbs is the pilot passage has a 3 way split and that connects to the pilot jet
making it 4 ways ... and you can put carb cleaner into one hole and get it out all the other holes but that does not mean it's not restricted i think that is what got me, you gott'a verify each passage way is clear and not restricted
....
but you got it idling why bother cleaning them again ? you clean it if it doesn't work.... if it works you leave it alone ! the bike is not taking throttle
but it was a few days ago what changed? i know impossible to say as you've done so much right ? we think it's too lean a mixture due to an air leak....one hose off would do just that.... double and triple check the carbs that there isn't a hose missing or that the hoses connected to it are in the right place..... it's gott'a work, as it worked before !
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Old January 13th, 2022, 02:44 AM   #211
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not sure if the emulsion tube not seating 100% on the collar could be doing this. like an imbalance between the two carb bodies. i don’t know if the scuffing on the emulsion tube is bad enough to do that but it’s pretty scratched up. float bowl gaskets were like $3 last time I bought them there
Can you post a photo of that emulsion tube
That why I ask if sync the carb as you need a carburetor synchronizer kit to do that because using drill to set butterfly for the initial starting point but not the actual balancing between the two cylinder will be slightly different from each other vacuum as they wear differently from each other.

There are three types of Carb Sync tools
Vacuum Gauges Carb Sync Tool "All over the place I got a Alpha Moto off eBays".
Dial gauges require some initials setup calibration, and the bouncing needles can sometime be hard to interpret at first but once you get it dial in with small value so it not bouncing 90mph all over place.

Fluid Manometer Carb Sync Tool "Motion Pro SyncPro Carburetor Tuner".
The cons Manometer can evaporate over time and easily be sucked into your engine if the carbs are way out sync or when you blip the throttle so don't ever do that.

Digital Carb Sync Tool "The Digi Sync - Digital Carb Sync Tool ".
Nice but a bit more expensive they come in 2CH 4CH 6CH ver.
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Old January 13th, 2022, 07:38 AM   #212
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did you do compression test after valve adjustment? There may be some valve-seat damage from running with such tight valves.

Is vacuum on right carb still jumping around like before?

After using MotionPro mercury synchronisers for decades, I really like modern electronic gauges. Has damping in software to give average reading so numbers don't bounce around madly!
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Old January 13th, 2022, 07:52 AM   #213
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After using MotionPro mercury synchronisers for decades, I really like modern electronic gauges. Has damping in software to give average reading so numbers don't bounce around madly!
Which one ?.
The Digi Sync - Digital Carb Sync Tool or Prop-Tech - Dsynch2
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Old January 13th, 2022, 11:07 AM   #214
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yes I have synched the carbs many times. they are in synch right now.

That next day when I could see I swapped the gauges to see if it was a hose or a gauge so I swapped the gauges and vacuum ports to see if it was either the gauge or the hose. I have a new vacuum gauge in the box. So I will have to use that when I synch again.

Unfortunately my friend came over this morning and I was showing him the bike and he sprayed brake cleaner on the CDI pins because he said they looked a little corroded. he did this when I went to get some fresh gas at the station and now it will not start. I'm pretty aggravated now. I just bought that CDI. I'm hoping it will dry out. he said he tried to start it after he "cleaned them" so more than likely its been shorted out internally. it still works but not right. the timing is really off


This SUCKS
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Old January 13th, 2022, 11:20 AM   #215
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yes I have synched the carbs many times. they are in synch right now.

That next day when I could see I swapped the gauges to see if it was a hose or a gauge so I swapped the gauges and vacuum ports to see if it was either the gauge or the hose. I have a new vacuum gauge in the box. So I will have to use that when I synch again.

Unfortunately my friend came over this morning and I was showing him the bike and he sprayed brake cleaner on the CDI pins because he said they looked a little corroded. he did this when I went to get some fresh gas at the station and now it will not start. I'm pretty aggravated now. I just bought that CDI. I'm hoping it will dry out. he said he tried to start it after he "cleaned them" so more than likely its been shorted out internally.

This SUCKS
What dim wit you need keep this guy alway from your bike first all he should been using WD40 or CRC electrical contact cleaner or 90% Rubbing Alcohol with brass wire tube brush or brass wire toothbrush brush does not ever use brake or carb cleaner on electronic parts
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Old January 13th, 2022, 11:28 AM   #216
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the stupid thing is there WAS 4 cans of CRC contact cleaner on the same shelf!!
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Old January 13th, 2022, 11:29 AM   #217
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I'm hoping it just evaporates. I HOPE
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Old January 13th, 2022, 11:30 AM   #218
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I'm hoping it just evaporates. I HOPE
Take Rubbing Alcohol pour on it the used a hair dyer
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Old January 13th, 2022, 12:29 PM   #219
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Take Rubbing Alcohol pour on it the used a hair dyer
I went out there to grab it to do that and I turned it upside down and shook it to see if I could hear anything and he FLOODED it with liquid. I blew it out with the compressor and thought what the hell I will try it one more time and it started. So I thought while its running I might not get another chance to check for air leaks again if this CDI never works again so I had a Hunt Brothers single serve pizza box and I used it just to cover the intake side of the carbs so I could spray every single inch of the carbs and intake boots to see if it was a vacuum leak like yall have been saying I must have. Well the lid of the pizza box is the exact same size of the intake are of the carbs. I was able to rev it!! Its weird though that it ran months ago with no filters at all but now that I choke it down with a box lid it will run. It is getting too much air. But why now instead of before? must be a combination of plugged ports and the sort. oh well. I was able to start the bike again by shaking the CDI and blowing it out once more. I repeated spraying all over to check for leaks and there are no orifices letting air in....other than the carb intakes. good hoses and caps and new boots and gaskets. I mean they should be as they're all new.

Amazon still hasn't mailed me the replacement air filter yet. they claim they have not received the defective one I mailed back. choking it with the box seems to have fixed it? I mean I can understand why that would be true but I'm afraid the K&N pod isnt going to be that much more restrictive when I get it compared to no filters like right now
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Old January 13th, 2022, 12:38 PM   #220
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Now I see why everyone complains about filter pressure and tuning these carbs on this bike. the box pretty much sucks it self almost sealing off the intake of the carbs at full throttle and its revving hard and fine. I might have to go to a 40 pilot when the filter arrives. I might have found the problem after all this time. I have tuned all my other carbs without filters before and then once I am in the ballpark finish tuning with them on but I guess not this bike
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Old January 13th, 2022, 12:40 PM   #221
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Also the CDI seems to have finally dried out. I was not going to be very happy if I had to buy a new one. The timing seems to be back also. its not firing weird and knocking when trying to start it
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Old January 13th, 2022, 01:13 PM   #222
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Also the CDI seems to have finally dried out. I was not going to be very happy if I had to buy a new one. The timing seems to be back also. its not firing weird and knocking when trying to start it
You mean a used one as new Igniter is not cheap $475 there one on eBay
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Old January 13th, 2022, 01:24 PM   #223
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Now I see why everyone complains about filter pressure and tuning these carbs on this bike. the box pretty much sucks it self almost sealing off the intake of the carbs at full throttle and its revving hard and fine. I might have to go to a 40 pilot when the filter arrives. I might have found the problem after all this time. I have tuned all my other carbs without filters before and then once I am in the ballpark finish tuning with them on but I guess not this bike
It not that seal up it just way the air box is build and how draw air in which should be on bike any way for tuning then yes you may have go up in pilot and main jet with open K&N Pod filter vs the stock box and it filter by next size or one more size above it all just depend.
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Old January 13th, 2022, 01:27 PM   #224
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I bought this igniter on eBay for $20 a few months back

I bought the K&N single pod. Just waiting on it, still
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Old January 13th, 2022, 01:39 PM   #225
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I bought this igniter on eBay for $20 a few months back

I bought the K&N single pod. Just waiting on it
Look for a NoN CA 21119-0010 or CA 21119-0012
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Old January 13th, 2022, 03:25 PM   #226
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The one I bought back in July was the 21119-0012 from a 2004
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Old January 13th, 2022, 03:26 PM   #227
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do you know what the difference between the 21119-0010 and the 21119-0012 is?
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Old January 13th, 2022, 03:53 PM   #228
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do you know what the difference between the 21119-0010 and the 21119-0012 is?
That I don't know my guess is that are the same but there may be a small in diff in tuning timing for the Calif model
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Old January 14th, 2022, 02:12 PM   #229
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do you know what the difference between the 21119-0010 and the 21119-0012 is?
Ignition-curve is slightly tamer on CA version to lower NoX emissions. Not enough to notice any differences.
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Old January 14th, 2022, 03:10 PM   #230
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Since I’m still waiting on the air filter. I just stopped by the Harley dealership and got them to order new 38 pilots snd 40. even if I stick with 38 at least all new jets will be new. they had one emulsion tube but since I need 2 they went ahead and ordered 2 new ones for me. Just in case I compared them like y’all recommended and they’re the same. 4x-38 and 4x-40 pilots and two new emulsion jets were only $24. I wasn’t going to get the emulsion ribs but they were authentic Keihin ones and $9 each so I went ahead and got them. I don’t want there to be a reason that something is worn out. I’m tired of chasing problems one after another.
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Old January 17th, 2022, 02:26 AM   #231
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Okay everyone I am going to have to take a week break I started work back a few days ago and we are swamped. I have been working upwards of 13 hours to help out. I will give more updates when all the stuff arrives. I the filter came in but now I am waiting on the carb replacement parts.
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Old January 17th, 2022, 02:40 AM   #232
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ok no problem remember us when ya start working on her again !
have a good one and don't be a stranger !
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Old January 28th, 2022, 05:46 AM   #233
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Very exciting news, at least to me. Tomorrow I will have all day to work on the bike. I have all the new carb parts and the filter now. So if everything is right it should be running tomorrow evening. Fingers crossed.

I have a question to everyone in the meantime. It's about my Triumph. Ever since I have had it the choke is either on all the way or not at all. as soon as you adjust it down from full choke its like it isnt choked anymore. full choke or no choke once adjusted down any. any thoughts on that? the choke works fine because its been in the 20sF when I have got off work. so its obvious it works. It's always been this way. when I have taken the carbs apart before the choke mechanisms seemed to look fine.
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Old January 28th, 2022, 09:27 AM   #234
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yup, same with Ninjette too. That last 1/4" of travel to max is where all action is. Then to reduce choke as it warms up, you reduce lever by 1mm at a time.
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Old January 28th, 2022, 11:26 AM   #235
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yep like Danno says it's the last 1/4" of that lever movement that does all the work....
I had a hell of a time with my T140's idle , could not get that big beast started
and if i did and lucked out and got it running it would not idle and this was after cleaning the carbs mutable times ...
I found out that on the Amal Carbs the 930's the pilot jet is not removable
and discovered that the left side pilot jet was completely plugged so I got tired of messing with them and ordered 2 new Amal 930 carbs with removable pilot jets... just before the new carbs arrived I finally got through the blockage in that one pilot jet and tried it... and it started and ran and even idled ...
i put on the new carbs anyway and got them all tuned in and now the bike starts with one kick usually...
the secret I've found with my 1977 Triumph T140 750cc classic in starting is
a starting procedure... you tickle the carbs turn on the choke fully turn on the key and kick it and it roars to life and then you let it idle for about 2 minutes
till it sounds like it is loading up ( running fat) then you slowly take off the choke while keeping the rpms up slightly then when the choke is fully off your ready to go....
usually starting after that is just tickle the carbs and kick it ,,, with no choke....
......
if you look at the choke lever it's easy to see what way is on or off but you gott'a look at it when the cable is fully pulled out the choke is off with the cable as short as it can be it's fully on....
the manual doesn't tell you that I guess your supposed to figure it out yourself ! LOL
.....


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Old February 7th, 2022, 04:33 PM   #236
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@Bob KellyIII I would hate non removable jets. why that was ever a thing is beyond me.

So I think I got it running. I know I said I was going to get a chance to work on it a while back but helping out at work which I shouldn't even be has had me around 70 hours a week so I haven't had the energy to work on the bike.

I threw the 40 pilots in and put the K&N unipod on and it seems to rev and return to idle. I think its running lean on the stock mains though. at first it was doing the same thing as before but I realized after a few minutes of it running that its because of how cold it is here. it finally warmed up and it revs and returns with no hanging at all. but, it does kind of dip down at idle on return but only barely. I also feel like it could rev up faster but there I think its running lean on the mains. I just need to swap those and test. I really cant fool around with it anymore today because the band clamps that came with the K&N filter are too wide and it keeps squeezing the boots of the filter off the flange of the intake on the carbs.

Any idea on what to do about the band clamps squeezing the pod off? I removed all the filter oil from the boots and that helped some but not completely. I think I need narrow band clamps
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Old February 7th, 2022, 05:19 PM   #237
Bob KellyIII
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don't put them on so tight ! just to the point you can see the rubber start to swell under the clamp and stop !
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Old February 7th, 2022, 06:08 PM   #238
marshallsmith27
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@Bob KellyIII it's weird the pod doesn't want to stay on the carbs even without the clamps. its like the boots are just a fraction too small. I have to really force the pod on and hold it in place as I tighten the clamps. I'm not sure how this pod is supposed to be.

On a side note I got the Triumph running great again on the interstate. It definitely was a perished intake boot. I replaced both and the spitting went away.

I've now replaced the intake boots on both of these bikes. the ones on the Kawasaki were very bad though. not anymore though. now I just need to sort this pod staying on

The K&N pods are singles on my Triumph and they stay on just fine. theyre perfectly easy to get on and they stay and just as equally to take off. thats specifically why I bought the single pod for the Kawasaki because of how easily they are serviced
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Old February 7th, 2022, 07:08 PM   #239
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Not the greatest video but its like the bodies of the carbs are slightly wider apart (?) than the filter is? I think thats what it is. Since its hard to get on I ended up slightly wrinkling the filter!! its brand new too fresh out of the box

after rewatching the video I think I might have an idea why but I need to check it out. I will either look at it again tonight or tomorrow.

Last futzed with by marshallsmith27; February 8th, 2022 at 01:48 PM.
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Old February 7th, 2022, 07:34 PM   #240
Bob KellyIII
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Umm what video ???, the link took me to vintage gas tanks on ebay !
LOL....
sounds like the filters are the wrong size !
back in my dirt bike days I had a "Green weeny" as we called them keep wanting to fall off so I took some bailing wire and went a full revolution around the front of the carb and then back to under the hose clamp on both sides 180 degrees apart... it never fell off again.... kind'a a stop-gap solution and it's ugly but maybe you could use stainless steel wire and keep it shinie ??? LOL
..... anything's better than having the air filters fall off going to town and loosing them ! (been there done that one)
....
I'm really surprised at how well the Ninja ran today.... i finally got the rt. carb airscrew turned out a little more and what a difference that has made !
I think I'll try it in the morning when it is cold in the shop though before I call it fixed ! HAHAHAH
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