Bearing Life?

dcj13 · February 6th, 2014, 06:14 PM

I'll put the question in the pre-gen section, but it's applicable across the generations, perhaps.

What is the expect life for Ninjette steering head bearings (SHB) and front and rear wheel bearing (WB)?

In the BMW world, front WBs last over 100K miles (provided one is not forging streams) and SHBs can last quite a while, particularly if one tightens up the races when it first starts to clunk. (I've got 83K miles on my K75 and the SHB have been adjusted twice in the last 20 years without cleaning/relubing). The modern BMWs (for last 30 years) have tapered SHBs, which, of course, are far superior to ball bearings in this application. And I know that my Ninjette with 26K miles could stand new SHBs (tapered would be installed, of course).

How many miles are you guys/gals getting out of your SHBs and WBs on your Ninjettes?

Alex · February 6th, 2014, 06:30 PM

You'll find some posters here who believe the lifetime of the stock SHB should be measured in hours instead of years or miles.

dcj13 · February 6th, 2014, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

You'll find some posters here who believe the lifetime of the stock SHB should be measured in hours instead of years or miles.

I admit I don't think ball bearings are appropriate for SHBs, including for bicycles. I'm curious as to why the big four Japanese bike manufacturers use them. Seems a lousy way to save $20 or so. Also, I've always been puzzled as to why tapered SHBs are marketed by a company called "All Balls" (or something to that effect).

My Ninjette has a slight detent at straight-ahead alignment and I know I'll have to deal with it one of these days. But not today.

tc.young · February 6th, 2014, 06:41 PM

depends on how much preventative maintenance has been done, my klr needed new head bearings at 12k because it was notchy and the ballbearings were dry and the PO did nothing.

my xr250l needed wheel bearings at 15k but it was ridden offroad a lot.

if you grease them then they can go for a lot longer. YMMV

dcj13 · February 6th, 2014, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tc.young

depends on how much preventative maintenance has been done, my klr needed new head bearings at 12k because it was notchy and the ballbearings were dry and the PO did nothing.

my xr250l needed wheel bearings at 15k but it was ridden offroad a lot.

if you grease them then they can go for a lot longer. YMMV

Sounds like good advice! But if I'm gonna go to the trouble of taking the steering head apart to grease it, I'm gonna spend the $50 or so to put in proper tapered bearings!

I've got an '05 KLR250 (with exactly 1800 miles! I just checked.) that I bought 6 weeks ago. Fortunately the SHBs still feel great on it. Only bad thing on that bike is the lack of electric starter.

Motofool · February 6th, 2014, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcj13

.............What is the expect life for Ninjette steering head bearings (SHB) and front and rear wheel bearing (WB)?

With proper lubrication and isolation from water, all those bearings should last longer than the bike itself.

The main problem with the SHB is that the play is adjustable, while only one optimal clearance between the balls and the tracks can sustain a film of lubrication.

fast1075 · February 7th, 2014, 03:42 AM

I have been working on motorcycles for over 45 years. The problem is that the bearings used are not REALLY good for the side thrust loads. They are radial ball bearings. The rake of the fork and turning and braking loads put very high thrust loads on them. The pounding from the road surface beats them up. Humidity and water introduced corrode them.

SOME bikes, especially European ones have better engineered designs and are sealed better from environmental factors.

When they wear out install a set of good tapered bears which ARE designed to handle side thrust and enjoy better handling and life from them.

As for why they don't use "good" bearings, simple. Good bearings cost, say, $4.00 more. Build 10,000 bikes. Good bearings will add $40,000.00 to the build cost. 40K is a lot of money to lose on a low profit margin bike.

quarterliter · February 7th, 2014, 07:22 AM

Is there anyone besides all balls who makes the tapered roller bearings for the ninja 250?

dcj13 · February 7th, 2014, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quarterliter

Is there anyone besides all balls who makes the tapered roller bearings for the ninja 250?

All balls probably isn't a manufacturer. They likely buy correct sized standard bearings from FAG, SKF, and other companies and sell them in kits to guys like you and me.

old3 · February 7th, 2014, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

You'll find some posters here who believe the lifetime of the stock SHB should be measured in hours instead of years or miles.

800 miles and mine were wasted. 2013 300.

I love me some SHB talkin!

dcj13 · February 8th, 2014, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old3

I love me some SHB talkin!

Good! Sounds like it may be a recurring thread (hopefully not as disdained as the dreaded oil thread, dreaded tire thread, etc.).

Is replacing pre-gen SHBs a difficult job for an advanced shadetree mechanic? I realize some homemade (or possibly purchased) tooling is in order.

Is it a one or two evening job?

old3 · February 8th, 2014, 10:10 AM

I did the 2013 without removing the fairings in about 2 easy paced hours. I'm sure the older ones are similar. You need a BFH and a long drift or suitable device to pound out the old and gently introduce the new races.

Caveman simple to do. Just drive them back in straight and move the force 90 degrees every tap or get a race press and use that.

I'm a hammer guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x17uzPUNMto

allanoue · February 8th, 2014, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcj13

Good! Sounds like it may be a recurring thread (hopefully not as disdained as the dreaded oil thread, dreaded tire thread, etc.).

Is replacing pre-gen SHBs a difficult job for an advanced shadetree mechanic?I realize some homemade (or possibly purchased) tooling is in order.

Is it a one or two evening job?

this thread may help
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=119551

dcj13 · February 8th, 2014, 12:55 PM

Thank you Jim and Al!

It sounds like a "Heathkit 2 Evening" job (or less) and no more than USD $50.
I like that! I'll take a look at the exploded parts diagram to see what I'm in for. Appreciate very much your responses!

old3 · February 8th, 2014, 05:26 PM

Grab a tub of Bel Ray waterproof grease at the bike shop too. That stuff is great for this job, in your wheel seals, on the axles, linkage bearings. $5.

February 6th, 2014, 06:14 PM	#1
dcj13 Participant Name: Dave Location: South of Seattle Join Date: Oct 2012 Motorcycle(s): '94 K75 std Posts: Too much. MOTM - Aug '15	Bearing Life? I'll put the question in the pre-gen section, but it's applicable across the generations, perhaps. What is the expect life for Ninjette steering head bearings (SHB) and front and rear wheel bearing (WB)? In the BMW world, front WBs last over 100K miles (provided one is not forging streams) and SHBs can last quite a while, particularly if one tightens up the races when it first starts to clunk. (I've got 83K miles on my K75 and the SHB have been adjusted twice in the last 20 years without cleaning/relubing). The modern BMWs (for last 30 years) have tapered SHBs, which, of course, are far superior to ball bearings in this application. And I know that my Ninjette with 26K miles could stand new SHBs (tapered would be installed, of course). How many miles are you guys/gals getting out of your SHBs and WBs on your Ninjettes?

February 6th, 2014, 06:30 PM	#2
Alex ninjette.org dude Name: 1 guess :-) Location: SF Bay Area Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 7	You'll find some posters here who believe the lifetime of the stock SHB should be measured in hours instead of years or miles. __________________________________________________ Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)

February 7th, 2014, 03:42 AM	#7
fast1075 ninjette.org guru Name: harry Location: Central Florida Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250, 2004 Buell XB12s, Honda 110 Elite Posts: 332	I have been working on motorcycles for over 45 years. The problem is that the bearings used are not REALLY good for the side thrust loads. They are radial ball bearings. The rake of the fork and turning and braking loads put very high thrust loads on them. The pounding from the road surface beats them up. Humidity and water introduced corrode them. SOME bikes, especially European ones have better engineered designs and are sealed better from environmental factors. When they wear out install a set of good tapered bears which ARE designed to handle side thrust and enjoy better handling and life from them. As for why they don't use "good" bearings, simple. Good bearings cost, say, $4.00 more. Build 10,000 bikes. Good bearings will add $40,000.00 to the build cost. 40K is a lot of money to lose on a low profit margin bike. __________________________________________________ "They don't pay me enough to ride this thing!" Kenny Roberts after winning the Indy Mile on the TZ750 powered Grand National bike.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Steering stem bearing	justdrew	2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk	3	February 5th, 2015 07:57 AM
Help: Journal bearing replacement	cuong-nutz	2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk	2	February 27th, 2014 09:39 PM
Wheel bearing quality	broken neck	2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk	15	January 18th, 2014 07:34 PM
Bearing or chain?	The_big_dill	1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk	8	August 1st, 2013 08:41 PM
Wheel Bearing?!	RiderOnTheStorm	2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk	3	May 20th, 2012 07:12 PM

February 6th, 2014, 06:41 PM	#4
tc.young ninjette.org member Name: tom Location: nyc Join Date: May 2013 Motorcycle(s): '89 klr 650, '00 250r Posts: 177	depends on how much preventative maintenance has been done, my klr needed new head bearings at 12k because it was notchy and the ballbearings were dry and the PO did nothing. my xr250l needed wheel bearings at 15k but it was ridden offroad a lot. if you grease them then they can go for a lot longer. YMMV

February 7th, 2014, 07:22 AM	#8
quarterliter ninjette.org guru Name: Kevin Location: Madison Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 465	Is there anyone besides all balls who makes the tapered roller bearings for the ninja 250?

February 8th, 2014, 10:10 AM	#12
old3 ninjette.org sage Name: Jim Location: NJ Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300, KTM EXC610SMR Posts: 913	I did the 2013 without removing the fairings in about 2 easy paced hours. I'm sure the older ones are similar. You need a BFH and a long drift or suitable device to pound out the old and gently introduce the new races. Caveman simple to do. Just drive them back in straight and move the force 90 degrees every tap or get a race press and use that. I'm a hammer guy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x17uzPUNMto

February 8th, 2014, 12:55 PM	#14
dcj13 Participant Name: Dave Location: South of Seattle Join Date: Oct 2012 Motorcycle(s): '94 K75 std Posts: Too much. MOTM - Aug '15	Thank you Jim and Al! It sounds like a "Heathkit 2 Evening" job (or less) and no more than USD $50. I like that! I'll take a look at the exploded parts diagram to see what I'm in for. Appreciate very much your responses!

February 8th, 2014, 05:26 PM	#15
old3 ninjette.org sage Name: Jim Location: NJ Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300, KTM EXC610SMR Posts: 913	Grab a tub of Bel Ray waterproof grease at the bike shop too. That stuff is great for this job, in your wheel seals, on the axles, linkage bearings. $5.