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Old June 20th, 2014, 08:32 PM   #1
CZroe
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Took tank off and disconnected many things, now bike won't stay on.

I ran the bike for 30 minutes today just because it's been sitting a LOOONG time and, though I don't recall revving it, it seemed fine. Later, I disconnected seemingly everything in an effort to get my birdcage off (upper fairing stay). Now I'm having problem revving. Yes, it's been sitting a long time, but last time I ran it due to sitting was less than a month earlier and it idled and revved fine.

I needed the birdcage off so that I could take the entire upper fairing with windscreen, gauges, etc inside where I could start zip-tying my HID ballasts and wire harness, but it forced me to disconnect everything from the handlebar controls to the ignition to the fuel tank. My tank was leaking fuel like crazy when I lifted it to get at the ignition plug so I went ahead and drained the tank and replaced the petcock (already ordered/had a new spare).

I'm pretty sure I reconnected everything to the tank but it died when I revved it and now the bike just dies when I try to start (shouldn't be too cold yet). I turned up the idle speed and it ran better so I walked away to leave it running for a few minutes and it was off again when I came back. I started it again and it died when I revved it, after which it was now really hard to start. I put the petcock in Prime and it still wouldn't stay on. Eventually I just had to pack it up under threat of rain.

Unless I'm missing something or did something wrong, these are the only differences from when it ran fine earlier today:
Throttle cables left disconnected from grip controls
Choke cables left disconnected from carbs
Clutch cable left disconnected from lever
Brake switch left disconnected from wire harness
Gauges left disconnected from wire harness

Now, as far as I can tell, it shouldn't require any of those to stay running when I started it up the second time. It seemed to be fine at idle before I revved it and then it wouldn't even idle right. Even when I got it to idle fine it would almost die when I played with the throttle cables even though I could rev it before disconnecting all that other stuff.

Could it be because I only test-fitted the tubing without the hose clamps? I didn't redo those yet because they were a pain to disconnect and I knew I was just going to have to undo them again when finalizing my HID wiring.

Edit: Solved! It's almost certainly something gumming the carbs after messing with the tank but I burned it out without taking the carbs apart. Fresh E0 fuel and almost a whole can of Seafoam didn't seem to be doing anything at first (fully warmed; would still die with throttle). It wasn't until I increased the idle up to the point that made it almost die and then left it there that things began to slowly improve (engine would speed up and slow down every few seconds). About ten minutes later, I was hitting the rev limiter and it was totally clear.

Last futzed with by CZroe; July 2nd, 2014 at 02:39 PM.
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Old June 23rd, 2014, 01:21 AM   #2
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I ran into a similar problem when I removed all of the clean air stuff due to capping the vent line on the tank by mistake. Pop the gas cap and see if it stays running, that will let you know you have the wrong tubing on the vent port. Otherwise, sounds like a vacuum issue or dirty fuel system.
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Old June 23rd, 2014, 05:18 AM   #3
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I ran into a similar problem when I removed all of the clean air stuff due to capping the vent line on the tank by mistake. Pop the gas cap and see if it stays running, that will let you know you have the wrong tubing on the vent port. Otherwise, sounds like a vacuum issue or dirty fuel system.
Yeah, I tried that too. Because I've had the tank form a vacuum on the road a few times I am always quick to try that.

Yesterday I ran it again and it idled great. When I left it last I was having trouble even getting it started again after it died while revving it, so I don't know what changed. Anyway, I let it idle and it idled fine for 30+ minutes until I played with the throttle cables again. Like before, it died and then refused to stay running, even at idle. Several minutes later, after playing with the idle speed, I finally got it to start and stay running again. For a little while it didn't run well and would die if I put the idle speed back down unless I slowly lowered it as the speed increased, as if it were burning out something bad which was disturbed from the revving.

I think it's really strange that it would run fine and let me blip the throttle a few weeks ago and then run like crap now. I did notice a huge puddle of water around the fuel door when I opened it and I am beginning to suspect the gas. It's stabilized but old gas and perhaps stabilization finally failed when I drained and refilled the tank with it the other day. Next I'll try new gas and Seafoam just in case.

Last futzed with by CZroe; July 2nd, 2014 at 02:30 PM.
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Old June 23rd, 2014, 06:06 AM   #4
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.... Next I'll try new gas and Seafoam just in case.
Fresh gas and Star Tron may do the trick!
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Old June 23rd, 2014, 11:08 AM   #5
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Yeah, I tried that too. Because I've had the tank form a vacuum on the road a few times I am always quick to try that.

Yesterday I ran it again and it ran fine for 30+ minutes until I played with the throttle cables. Like before, it died and refused to stay running again. Several minutes later after playing with the idle speed I finally got it to start and stay running again. It didn't run well and would die if I put the idle speed back down unless I slowly lowered it as the speed increased, as if it were burning out something bad.

I think it's really strange that it would run fine and let me blip the throttle a week ago and then run like crap now. I did notice a huge puddle of water around the fuel door when I opened it and I am beginning to suspect the gas. It's stabilized but old gas and perhaps stabilization finally failed when I drained and refilled the tank with it the other day. Next I'll try new gas and Seafoam just in case.
When I tore my carbs apart, I found the seafoam didn't clean them very well. Good old carb cleaner did the trick. I pulled mine apart simply because the bike was a 2011 and only had 1100 miles on it. I was surprised at how much gunk was in them. SO, you might want to pull your carbs and give them a cleaning, they'll love you for it!
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Old June 23rd, 2014, 11:47 AM   #6
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Thanks.

I plan to if it comes to that, but it revved fine last month despite sitting for over a year (parked with stabilized Seafoam-treated Ethanol-free E0). I spent a month getting a new battery and charging it (order battery, order charger, activate, wait for a day off) but I don't see how it could suddenly get gunked up in only a fraction of the time that it made it through with flying colors already. If it's a process that can be suddenly triggered by moisture exposure or something then I can understand, which is why I'm going out to buy some more E0 today.

Draining the fuel to change the petcock I saw that it looked clear, maybe slightly cloudy, but not bad at all. Not green, separated, opaque, or lumpy. If anything, the cloudiness looked white. I guess I'm going to be mixing it for the lawnmower.

Last futzed with by CZroe; July 2nd, 2014 at 02:32 PM.
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Old June 23rd, 2014, 01:52 PM   #7
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The gunk could have been in the lines and then when you started it moved into the carbs. It doesn't take much to plug one of the many tiny little passage ways. If the bike has sat for that long, I would give it a good clean and save yourself a bunch of headache. It will take you about 4 hours and you'll be glad you did.
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Old June 23rd, 2014, 02:05 PM   #8
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try with fresh gas
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Old June 24th, 2014, 05:43 PM   #9
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Drained it and threw in fresh E0 with a large dose of Seafoam. The fuel that came out looked almost as good as the fuel going in and, well, it isn't doing much better. :/

Before I dig in the carbs I'm going to reconnect everything to make sure that it's not some strange electrical quirk like that "brake lever makes the engine rev!" problem a couple people have had on the F bike.
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Old June 24th, 2014, 05:58 PM   #10
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Oh! And can anyone tell me where exactly the in-hose fuel filter is supposed to be? I know which hose it belongs in (first fuel hose from the tank) and which orientation, but it clearly wasn't supposed to be where it was (slipped all the way down and interfered with the connection to the carbs).

One more thing: is the engine supposed to run faster when I disconnect the vacuum hose from the petcock?
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Old June 25th, 2014, 07:55 AM   #11
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Oh! And can anyone tell me where exactly the in-hose fuel filter is supposed to be? I know which hose it belongs in (first fuel hose from the tank) and which orientation, but it clearly wasn't supposed to be where it was (slipped all the way down and interfered with the connection to the carbs).

One more thing: is the engine supposed to run faster when I disconnect the vacuum hose from the petcock?
Don't think the newgens have inline fuel filters.

If you disconnect the vacuum line then the bike will die. The vacuum tells the petcock to open and flow fuel.
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Old June 25th, 2014, 08:06 AM   #12
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Don't think the newgens have inline fuel filters.

If you disconnect the vacuum line then the bike will die. The vacuum tells the petcock to open and flow fuel.
They do. It's not in line with the hoses, it's literally INSIDE the hose.

Yes, it will die eventually, but why does the engine speed up as soon as I disconnect it?
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Old June 25th, 2014, 08:51 PM   #13
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They do. It's not in line with the hoses, it's literally INSIDE the hose.

Yes, it will die eventually, but why does the engine speed up as soon as I disconnect it?
SO if you disconnect it, it speeds up but then dies shortly after? If this is the case, my guess is when you disconnect the line there is no back pressure allowing the fuel to flow freely putting more into the carbs until the hose is empty. That's my best guess
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Old June 25th, 2014, 09:09 PM   #14
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SO if you disconnect it, it speeds up but then dies shortly after? If this is the case, my guess is when you disconnect the line there is no back pressure allowing the fuel to flow freely putting more into the carbs until the hose is empty. That's my best guess
Yes, but it doesn't die "quickly." It'll idle for minutes. It takes a while to burn all the fuel out of the carbs. :P If I plug the hose with my finger it normalizes.
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Old June 25th, 2014, 10:57 PM   #15
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Yes, but it doesn't die "quickly." It'll idle for minutes. It takes a while to burn all the fuel out of the carbs. :P If I plug the hose with my finger it normalizes.
I'm stumped...hopefully one of the more knowledgeable members can help out. Only thing I can think I would do is check all of the vacuum lines, fuel lines, etc to ensure they are routed correctly. You could hook up a separate fuel source into the fuel line and see if that changes anything. Then make sure to sync the carbs. I will think on it more and chime in if anything comes to mind.
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Old June 26th, 2014, 05:25 AM   #16
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Well, as far as I know everyone's bikes will do the same thing so it might be perfectly normal.
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 02:12 PM   #17
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After replacing the gas with fresh E0 and filling it up with almost a whole can of Seafoam, I warmed it up fully a couple times a week and revved it as much as it would let me. Until today, that meant it revved very little before dying. When closing up each day, rather than simply turning the key off, I would kill it by revving just in case that put more treated E0 where the clog happened to be.

It didn't seem to be getting any better. If I ever so slightly touched the throttle cables I could increase the revs but I couldn't hold it for long and pulling it slightly farther would always kill the motor. The idle speed adjustment would increase the speed up to a point but it would slow down after passing that point and I would always back off and return to something much closer to idle when it sounded like it was about to die. Shouldn't have because, as it turns out, that's exactly where I needed to keep it!

Today, I turned the idle speed up to the point where it would begin to die and left it right at that threshold. The speed would vary between faster and slower every few seconds but I noticed that the time it spent "faster" was increasing ever so slightly each time it went through this cycle. Gradually, it seemed to be working! The speed was fine (not racing) but I knew I couldn't just leave it like that because if it truly was working I could come back to find my bike ruined from being revved to the limiter and held there. Well, a watched pot never boils but I kept playing with it for what felt like an eternity (probably about 10 minutes in the hot sun), adding throttle until it would almost choke and then backing off until it settled into the fast/slow idle cycle again. I think my throttle application made it die a few times over the next 10 minutes but soon it was revving with no problem at all right up to the rev limiter!

We're clear.

I guess I really did have something in my carbs even though it revved fine so recently before that. I think my meddling probably loosened some tank gunk that got stuck which is why everything else seemed fine and I was able to clear it without a carb cleaning.
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Old July 4th, 2014, 03:29 PM   #18
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Good to hear you got it figured out. I know you don't want to hear this but.....I'd still pull and clean the carbs. I'm OCD like that, sorry.
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