Noob Stalling Question

[ajcadoo]

Man I feel nooby so dont bite me in the butt here. The ninja is my first standard transmission I have driven before. I own an automatic car and have never driven manual.

Anyway, for whatever reason, I have been frequently stalling when I start from a dead stop. I think it is because I am SOMETIMES only in 2nd gear from a stop. I dont downshift all the way to first. Mostly because I am a rookie and I dont know which gear I am in at a given moment.

What do you guys do to remember what gear you are in? Do you count as you upshift or something?

Also, When I stall at a dead stop, the ninja will sometimes refuse to start!

Yesterday, I was stuck at an intersection for a good 30 seconds trying to figure out WTF was happening. I was turning the ignition off, adjusted engine cutoff switch, clutch in, starter button. Nothing was STARTING! Finally I put the bike in neutral and then it started.

Is it possible I had the bike in second gear and that is why it refused to start? I just couldnt understand why it was not starting after it stalled.

[Jiggles]

Sometiems you have to pulll the clutch in really far in order for the bike to start

[Jiggles]

Don't be afraid to put your rpms up to 6k when you pull away at lights, better than stalling

[Trailerboy531]

1st gear, to me, has a more obvious clunk when you click down in to it. I dunno - it just feels more final. While you're waiting you can also move around a little bit and try to click down.

As others have said don't be afraid to give the bike gas before you ease the clutch out. Nothing dangerous will happen; it takes a lot of rpms and dumping the clutch to wheelie this bike.

When I stalled as a noob I also had issues starting the bike unless it was in neutral. Either pull the clutch all the way in and see if that works or get in neutral real quick and get going.

[EthioKnight]

Just remember to keep on downshifting before you come to a stop and like it's been said, first gear has a definitive and resounding click to it. If you've come to a stop and aren't sure you're in first, ease off the clutch to the friction zone (just a wee bit until you hear the engine sound change) and then drop gears...the ninjette can be prickly about downshifting from higher gears when stopped.
Practice, practice and practice brother...can't say that enough and stay safe

[Alex]

Make sure you're in first gear, more gas, let clutch out slower and more smoothly.

[loz944]

Every bike is different ............ first you need to find the bite point of the clutch. This is the point in which the engine and transmission is engaged,

sit with your bike on idle...(remove any mp3 player) and slowly release the clutch lever until you hear the engine revs drop and more importantly feel the bike wanting to move .at this point pull in the clutch and try again and again until the bite point becomes natural.

When you feel that you know where the bite point is as you reach that point slowly and smoothly apply the throttle if you hear the revs drop apply more throttle until you are moving away smoothly then apply more gas to accelerate to the desired speed.

after a while it will become so natural that you will wonder why you had any problems in the beginning above all dont try to show of in front of people and ride safe spend time with your bike and practice

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by ajcadoo

Is it possible I had the bike in second gear and that is why it refused to start? I just couldnt understand why it was not starting after it stalled.

No, it should start even if you are pushing the thing in second gear with a dead battery.

Next time crack the throttle open while cranking up.

Originally Posted by Motofool

Congratulations on the new bike and the great save.

#1 skill to polish: stopping in time without disturbing the balance of the bike.

Use only two fingers for the front brake lever, keep both wheels aligned and the bike up and hold your body from sliding forward with the tank rather than with the handle bar.

Best

#2 skill to polish: keep the rpm's in harmony with the speed of the bike, especially while slowing down. For a total stop, gear first just before stopping. Then find neutral once stopped and clutch out (for a long stop or turning engine off) or stay geared in first-clutched in ready to start moving again after a stop at sign or light. Keep the balance of the bike while doing all that.

#3 skill to polish: from a stop, let the clutch out slowly enough as to start dragging the bike without a sudden reduction of engine rpm's. Keep rpm's around 2,500~3,000 (throttle at a fixed position) and practice releasing the clutch level slowly looking for that point at which the engine's rpm's begin to decrease and the bike starts to pull. That is the zone that you have to master. Before and after that "grabbing" point is not that critical. After you master that, then you need to practice the simultaneous (and progressive) opening of the throttle and releasing of the clutch lever. Keep the balance of the bike while doing all that.

Best

[choneofakind]

First gear has a really solid clunk and slightly further throw than the other gears. If you're ever wondering what gear you're in at a stop, just keep the clutch pulled in, and tap the lever down with your foot like you would in any normal down shift. If you're in first, it won't go any further. Also, depending on how quickly you downshift, the downshift to 1st gear will flash the neutral light really quick and it will catch your eye.

The biggest thing to get accustomed to what gear you're in is to just get out there and get riding experience. Eventually, you'll just be able to tell be how the bike feels what gear you're in, and downshifting at stops/shifting around town will be second nature. Just give it time and consciously try to set up as many "good" habits now as you can. Right when you start is when habits sink in the best.

Have you taken the MSF course?

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Then find neutral once stopped.

Not sure if your telling him to shift to neutral at stops but that would be against what the OP learned during the MSF.

On the street - At intersections and stops, shift to first and stay in first in case you need to go unexpectedly.

In parking lot - Whatever you need to do to practice

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Have you taken the MSF course?

He has Chris.

[massacremasses]

Since youre on a 250 you can be pretty silly with what RPMs youre at when you take off...

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Not sure if your telling him to shift to neutral at stops but that would be against what the OP learned during the MSF.

Post #10 has been edited for clarity.

Thanks, Chris

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by csmith12

He has Chris.

oh ok. Just checking because I didn't see that in the first post

[GreenNinja]

I used to rely on hearing the sound of the engine but the problem is if you are parked next to a very loud car or anything else that drowns out the sound of our quiet engine then that method proves to be worthless.

This is what I was taught on how to deal with the bike from a dead stop. It is a VERY boring exercise but it taught me quite a bit. Take about 20 minutes out of your time and do this in a parking lot. Put the bike in 1st gear with the clutch pulled in at a stop. Slowly let the clutch out until the bike moves about 3 feet (without stalling). Pull clutch in again and repeat. This will put muscle memory in your hands so you will know at what point to go from releasing clutch and adding throttle. The point at which your bike will slowly move and not stall is the point where you start adding throttle. I hope this makes sense.

[miss_syn]

The most helpful thing for me was to practice the rocking backwards and forwards with the clutch. Put the bike in first gear, SLOWLY release the clutch until you find the friction zone and roll forward. Grab the clutch again and roll backwards. (Note: you will only be able to roll backwards when the clutch is fully grasped)

IDK, it helped me.

[massacremasses]

I cant say ive really had this problem though. Been driving standard transmissions since I was a little guy, riding quads and such.

[choneofakind]

Neither have I. that's why I'm having a little trouble relating to the problem. Been riding in a stick shift car since I was 2, and been driving that same car since the first week I got my temps. Finally sold that car to a junkyard in the fall. The clutch is just something I can feel at this point without any thought

[alex.s]

the part everyone forgets to mention is holding the clutch in the friction zone until you pick up speed before ccontinuing to let it out. if you go smooth and steady you will stall it almost every time. if you smooth out until you start to go, then PAUSE there until you pick up more speed, then sllllllooooowwwwwly ease out the rest of the way from there, you wont stall.

[ajcadoo]

Thanks for all the responses. I think I should mention, I know the friction zone on the bike like the back of my hand. I have mastered easy and smooth takeoffs. I just had this one exception where the bike stalled on my when I slowly took off. And I think it was because I was in 2nd gear and not first.

I am reading through the owners manual and it looks like the bike HAS to be in neutral for you to start it? MSF taught me to always turn the bike off in 1st as it gives the bike an essential parking brake for hills. I was easily able to start the MSF bike in 1st, but does the ninja refuse to start in first? BTW, when I say refuse to start, I mean the bike does not crank at all.

If I stall, I would like to be able to quickly turn the bike on while still in first, instead of frantically searching for neutral, then turning on, then back to first. Way tooo much work for a lazy ass like me

[massacremasses]

No it doesnt?

[ajcadoo]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

No it doesnt?

No it doesnt? What do you mean? What are you trying to say? I need some tone of voice/punctuation in the sentence or something.

[Jiggles]

You can start it in first but you have to have the clutch pulled in far enough, nearly all the way in

[ajcadoo]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

You can start it in first but you have to have the clutch pulled in far enough, nearly all the way in

Ok it is possible that when I was trying to start it, the clutch wasnt fully pulled in. I will have to check that out next time im out riding.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by ajcadoo

Ok it is possible that when I was trying to start it, the clutch wasnt fully pulled in. I will have to check that out next time im out riding.

Yep

Pull it all the way back to the grips

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by ajcadoo

..........does the ninja refuse to start in first? BTW, when I say refuse to start, I mean the bike does not crank at all.

Only if the sidekick stand is down.

There a safety switch there that kills the engine if you gear-in with the stand down.

[massacremasses]

But you can start it with the clutch in.... I think? Now im questioning myself...

[choneofakind]

You can start it with the sidestand down and in gear as long as the clutch is pulled in. If you want it to idle while on the sidestand though, it has to be in neutral obviously.

[massacremasses]

I think I tested it today and you cant... but I already forgot...

[choneofakind]

...well then I stand corrected. Just put it in neutral when you start it then.

[lc86]

If I stall, I would like to be able to quickly turn the bike on while still in first, instead of frantically searching for neutral, then turning on, then back to first. Way tooo much work for a lazy ass like me

The first thing to learn is to put it back into first gear, just get into the habit of downshifting until you can't anymore before you come to a complete stop, then you know you are in first. At trick to use (which you would do in a manual car) is to always shift into the appropriate gear while slowing down, even if the clutch is in. This isn't much of an issue for me because I usually use the gears to slow me down because the ninja downshifts so smoothly without the clutch (until 2nd, I will always use the clutch to shift into 1st). Just remember if you use the gears to slow down to flash your brake light so cagers don't rearend you. Even if you are in second, you can start, but you need to give it more throttle. If you are having frequent problems stalling you should adjust your idle setting higher, it will use a little more gas, but if its at ~3000 instead of the normal ~1500 you will probably never stall again. (Its the little black knob on the left side of the bike). You can restart the bike in gear, but the clutch has to be pulled in all of the way or it wont start. If you hear it trying to start and its not, give it some more gas (or if its stalling frequency and you are uncomfortable with it, just use the choke to keep your idle high). And lastly, when you are trying to restart it, make sure you weren't being stupid and hit the killswitch, I've done that before and couldn't figure out why it wouldn't start for the life of me :-)

[lc86]

To better clarify, from http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Underst...afety_switches

Short version
A bike can be started:
in neutral with the side stand down and the clutch out
in neutral, with the side stand up and the clutch out
in gear, with the side stand down and the clutch in
in gear, with the side stand up and the clutch in

Also, feel free to give it more throttle before you go, bring it up to 5-6k or so and you will never have this issue. If you are worried about giving it too much throttle and hitting something, you can use your rear brake to regulate your speed by providing artificial resistance.

[Kevin2109]

I stalled mine today Everyone has there noob moments

[Alex]

I believe you can; Justin - I'd check your clutch safety switch. LC86's post is spot-on.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by ajcadoo

Man I feel nooby so dont bite me in the butt here. The ninja is my first standard transmission I have driven before. I own an automatic car and have never driven manual.

Anyway, for whatever reason, I have been frequently stalling when I start from a dead stop. I think it is because I am SOMETIMES only in 2nd gear from a stop. I dont downshift all the way to first. Mostly because I am a rookie and I dont know which gear I am in at a given moment.

What do you guys do to remember what gear you are in? Do you count as you upshift or something?

.

To be honest, yes, as a nube I did count, particularly to keep up with the middle gears. When coming to a stop, you can always snick it all the way down until it stops. You don't even have to count the gears. Then you know you're always starting from 1st. Same thing if you're not sure if you're in 6th. Just try to go up a gear and see what happens. Find a parking lot and practice stopping and starting off without choking. Do it over and over and it will become 2nd nature. Sorry if any of this is repeat advice. I don't have time right now to read all of the other responses. I just wanted you to know, as a fellow rider who started riding with no manual transmission experience, the gears are much harder to figure out among all of the other learning experiences in riding 2-wheels. Count them as long as you need to.

[hybridkid]

Practice practice practice...practice this one thing until you master it...find a parking lot you can practice constantly in an empty business park or somewhere you can practice shifting, hard braking, and down shifting safely... Practice that for a few weeks. Trust me, I have been driving a manual for 14 years....it takes practice on a bike initially. You'll be fine

[Whiskey]

Easiest way when learning is to click it down as far as it will go once stopped, tip it back into neutral (just until the light comes on to be 100% sure) and straight back down into 1st.

That way you know you're in 1st. The ninja will pull away easily in 1st, a bit slower in 2nd, and reluctantly in 3rd (not that I recommend trying it, I did it once or twice at the start to see how each gear pulling away felt)

The downshift through neutral is longer & more substantial than any of the others, you'll learn when it's in 1st quickly enough.

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by trixter

This is not the point of what you are saying but this touches on a safety thing so I wanted to say this anyway. do not rely on that light You may be partially in neutral, enough that the light comes on but not enough to prevent the bike from jumping if you let the clutch go. You should slowly and under full control release the clutch even if that light is on and not rely on it but rather whether or not the bike is going to go forward if you release the clutch more.

And now back to your regularly scheduled program

yeah the check should be done with the clutch in, only bump it up into neutral to see the light come on & straight back into (what he in now 100% sure is) 1st in case he has to avoid the blind cager who wants to occupy the same piece of road as him.

And only do it until he knows what the downshift through neutral feels like, or learns to count...