April 8th, 2014, 11:26 AM | #1 |
King Hamfist
Name: Cameron
Location: NorCal East Bay
Join Date: Oct 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Crf 150R, 2011 Hypermotard 796 Posts: 940
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A Better Car vs Bike Comparison
Lets say we take two similar vehicles in the car and bike world and take them to Laguna Seca for two days and compare the lap times. @rojoracing53 already posted his video of what he was able to do on the 250. Coincidentally, I was flogging a 2000 Miata out there. Which has similar mods to what rojo has on the bike, minus motor enhancing mods. I wish we had video, but what do you think the gap would be? Don't cars brake and go around long sweepers faster than bikes?
Consistent 2.01's and 2.00's. That's all my little car could do. Lets just round it out to 10 seconds slower than a ninja 250 with bolt ons. Where was he killing me? Turns. Turn 2 I'm exiting on the rumble strips at 57 MPH. I know that because I was shoving it into 3rd burying the tach a little past redline. Turn 5 I'm only able to get through there at just over 60 mph. I'm sure he'll chime in with what speeds he was able to exit some of the corners at. According to rojo, the power and speed is pretty similar. If you can ride the bike, there is no better price to lap time ratio with a car. With all the mods and the cost of a used miata you can buy a clean used 600 and be faster than porsche gt3's, nsx, corvettes, and bmw m3s. |
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April 8th, 2014, 11:56 AM | #2 |
Fast-Guy wannabe
Name: Jason
Location: Brentwood, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja250, 2011 RM-Z250, 2004 NSR50, Posts: A lot.
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These are all my best exiting speeds in the corners I was monitoring.
3-68mph 4-81 mph 5-71mph 6-77 mph 11-50 mph Max speed mid straight between turn 6 and corkscrew was only 81. There is no acceleration here because the hill is to steep but most the time I would be stuck at 79 mph. My braking points for both turn 2 and 11 were the three cones and turn 5 was 20' before the two cones. |
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April 8th, 2014, 12:07 PM | #3 |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
Name: Sean
Location: San Jose, Ca
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To get real scientific here you both need to switch vehicles and try again
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April 8th, 2014, 12:11 PM | #4 |
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General difference I'm seeing is tires. You mentioned the tires of your 'lil MX5 were getting greasy when you really pushed them. Would stickier, more track oriented rubber even out that corner speed difference a bit?
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April 8th, 2014, 12:33 PM | #5 |
Fighting Texas Aggie '05
Name: Neil
Location: Hutto, TX
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '07 ZX6R, '08 Versys, '09 250R Track, '93 F2/F3 Track Posts: A lot.
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There is never really a good fair comparison between cars and bikes lol. I mean the biggest potential benefit a car has over a bike is the amount of contact patch creating a place for friction forces to act. Tires make you go stop and turn and a car can simply have more tire.
The biggest potential benefit a bike has is mass, specifically less of it. Less mass means less forces generated for going stopping and turning that mass. In many cases the lighter mass of the bike wins, but given unlimited resources (see MotoGP vs F1) you just can't beat all the rubber. The equalizer is that a tire is bound by its ability to create that friction force and withstand the thermal energy and material degradation involved. Bike tires have less tire but car tires have a greater magnitude of force to deal with.
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April 8th, 2014, 12:34 PM | #6 |
Fighting Texas Aggie '05
Name: Neil
Location: Hutto, TX
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '07 ZX6R, '08 Versys, '09 250R Track, '93 F2/F3 Track Posts: A lot.
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Although I love the comparison, the MX5 is totally the ninjette of the car world. Everyone rags on one until they flog it and then you understand lol.
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April 8th, 2014, 12:40 PM | #7 |
clutch
Name: nameless
Location: Maryland
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Curious, what type of suspension work is done on the Miata?
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April 8th, 2014, 02:20 PM | #8 |
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Cyclecam303 here is a video (not quite what you were talking about) that shows a car and bike on the same track and they over lay the two at the end to show the difference between where each one was at what time. They are not at the same track as you and not quite the same comparison but they do show the different ways the tires handle the loads during braking and accel.
Last futzed with by Ducati999; April 8th, 2014 at 02:24 PM. Reason: Link failed |
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April 8th, 2014, 03:47 PM | #9 |
King Hamfist
Name: Cameron
Location: NorCal East Bay
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Spec miatas are running 1.48s out there. No interior intake header and exhaust and race rubber. Race tires would've made a big difference.
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April 8th, 2014, 03:53 PM | #10 |
King Hamfist
Name: Cameron
Location: NorCal East Bay
Join Date: Oct 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Crf 150R, 2011 Hypermotard 796 Posts: 940
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April 8th, 2014, 05:35 PM | #11 |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
Name: Sean
Location: San Jose, Ca
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I want a smart car. Smart car vs a ninjette, I think that's more accurate
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If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
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April 8th, 2014, 05:40 PM | #12 |
Private Joker
Name: Ben
Location: Towson, MD
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smart car = the performance levels of a harley
miata is a fair comparison |
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April 8th, 2014, 05:46 PM | #13 |
ninjette.org dude
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April 8th, 2014, 05:50 PM | #14 |
Private Joker
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that's the equivalent of a drag bike now, doesn't look like it can corner at speed without spinning. Then again it probably could if you were delicate w/the throttle
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April 9th, 2014, 08:27 PM | #15 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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@CycleCam303 Numbers aside. Which vehicle was more fun to control around the track??
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April 9th, 2014, 08:29 PM | #16 |
Private Joker
Name: Ben
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^ damn good question
I'd bet the bike but a good car is probably boatloads of fun too |
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April 9th, 2014, 08:58 PM | #17 |
King Hamfist
Name: Cameron
Location: NorCal East Bay
Join Date: Oct 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Crf 150R, 2011 Hypermotard 796 Posts: 940
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Eh, it's hard to really compare which one is more fun. Cars and bikes are so different to me that I really can't answer that. I will say that I miss having a street bike everyday. The car is only fun when you're going large. The bike was cool even when just farting around. Although I give it to the car when it's raining. Seriously, driving when it's super wet outside in the canyons is officially the only thing I like about rainy days. I hate riding on two wheels when it's wet out.
The Miata is a hard car to drive fast. You'd have to be in the car with me, but I'm working my hands and balancing the car with the throttle quite a bit to get the car around the track. It's very loose feeling. With that said it's a very very cool car to drive because it's so text book with it's characteristics. All the driving techniques work like they should with that car, yet it's fun because you can really screw it up and still save it. But drive correctly and the car will reward you. It's a great training tool. The ninja 250 and the miata are dead similar on track. In the sense of everything is faster in a straight line. I would get held up and then I couldn't pass because they would just pull away. Unfortunately, car track days are pretty tame compared to bike days. Cars are easier to drive too. So anyone can go decent around a track if they have triple the horsepower you do. Most motorcyclists struggle to make use of a liter bike, but with cars 500hp isn't an unwieldy affair. |
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April 9th, 2014, 10:26 PM | #19 | |
Fast-Guy wannabe
Name: Jason
Location: Brentwood, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja250, 2011 RM-Z250, 2004 NSR50, Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
So in short the motorcycle is more fun but a car has a few things everyone should experience at least once. |
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April 9th, 2014, 10:33 PM | #20 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Jono
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Good answer! I agree that you can't really compare the two. I've decided I need both a bike and a car to be happy. I've never driven my car at a track day just many autocross events and no track days on my bike either. But I can tell that the experience is very different for both.
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April 10th, 2014, 07:13 AM | #21 |
Private Joker
Name: Ben
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I've never had a problem passing kids on corner exit in a car. Then again I haven't tried that bs since high school so it was probably a driving skill/willingness to be reckless difference especially since I was always down on power.
I prefer the bike overall but taking a fun little car to an autocross event is always a blast and it's not ridiculously expensive. For a legit track day I'd imagine that I would prefer the bike though since there's a lot more to cornering fast on a bike than cornering fast in a car imo |
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April 10th, 2014, 07:40 AM | #22 | |
Fast-Guy wannabe
Name: Jason
Location: Brentwood, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja250, 2011 RM-Z250, 2004 NSR50, Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jan '13
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Quote:
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April 10th, 2014, 07:45 AM | #23 |
Private Joker
Name: Ben
Location: Towson, MD
Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): '99/'01 Ninja 250 "sketchy", '13 Ninja 300 "yoshi", '03 GSXR 600 "merlin" Posts: A lot.
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Yea, that reminds me how much I want to get a yoshimura/tbr/etc slip on for my car
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April 10th, 2014, 08:49 AM | #24 |
King Hamfist
Name: Cameron
Location: NorCal East Bay
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@Sirref car track days are way more conservative than bike days. I got yelled at for diving in on someone mid corner for example. You're supposed to give a point by to let a car pass you.you aren't supposed to pass unless given the OK to do so. By Sunday other drivers started recognizing my car and would point me by as soon as I soaked them up.
There isn't a lot of room to pass and most people are on the driving line. You can't compare it to street driving at all. Its a great experience that autocross simply can't provide. There's more technique involved since the speeds are so much higher you have to be more conscience of weight management. In a way it almost feels a lot safer. With the bikes you can do whatever you want and it isn't very micro managed. |
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April 10th, 2014, 12:34 PM | #25 |
Private Joker
Name: Ben
Location: Towson, MD
Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): '99/'01 Ninja 250 "sketchy", '13 Ninja 300 "yoshi", '03 GSXR 600 "merlin" Posts: A lot.
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but half the fun of an I/A level trackday is getting to pass people aggressively, I think if I were to do a car track day I'd build a rwd car up for a drift day and bring a bunch of spare tires but that's all way in the future when I have the funds for such a project.
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