Octane, Money and You??? What do you run in your 250 and why?

[NathanUc]

Originally Posted by TFKninja

excuse me for being nieve, but what is 87, in australia we have 91, 95, 98. 91 being the standard and 95 and 98 being the premium, before they started putting ethenol in I never had a problem using standard in my 4x4 which has fuel injection. until lately now it gets valve ping all the time, so I found I have to use premium where ever I can, (my wife keeps putting the cheap stuff in) drives me mad. But I am presuming that because the ninja is still on carbs that may be why we dont have problems with standard fuel. I did get told not to use BP because they add a lubricant to the fuel which is good for cars but not for bikes. Our measuring system may be different because we are metric and that may be what the stickers mean if it is labeled by Kawasaki. I laugh hearing the argument of fuel efficiancy for a motorbike here because I have only just started riding because the price of fuel in my 4x4 has just been getting too expensive so the savings I have now are just huge compared to what we are talking about here.lol

Just different ratings of gas. RON vs PON really.

Someone posted this already, but here's the link again:
http://www.btinternet.com/~madmole/R...RONMONPON.html

[TFKninja]

Ah Bugger it now I'm even more confused who is what, I was hoping for some kind of conversion table but that says america is PON and we may be RON but 87 is in MON. What should I use if u recommend 87 what would be our equivilant. Ive been through asia and europe, in UK last I was there, they had the different octane fuels but no difference in cost, they just said use what your vehicle manufacturer recommends. Upsetting to know we pay extra for higher octane fuels.

[NathanUc]

Originally Posted by TFKninja

Ah Bugger it now I'm even more confused who is what, I was hoping for some kind of conversion table but that says america is PON and we may be RON but 87 is in MON. What should I use if u recommend 87 what would be our equivilant. Ive been through asia and europe, in UK last I was there, they had the different octane fuels but no difference in cost, they just said use what your vehicle manufacturer recommends. Upsetting to know we pay extra for higher octane fuels.

There was a conversion chart at the bottom.

I think almost everyone here has been using PON ratings. I think Aus. uses RON according to the wiki page.

91 RON is what you'd use I think. My fuel sticker says 91ron min.

[TFKninja]

That sounds like what I was reading but I thought I'd clarify it, It makes it easier for me that is what I buy for my lawnmowers so I always have a jerry can of it in my Garage if I can't be bothered running past a fuel station. And I think the wife will like that, she hates paying the extra $$ for the higher octane, but she may have to for the 4x4 which has long range tanks on it too. looking at about $180 to fill her up, my bike- lucky if I squeeze $20 in her.

[kkim]

take a good look ate the gas pumps in Australia. They must have the octane rating displayed somewhere on the pump. It will tell you what rating method they use there. I'm pretty sure it's RON.

If it is, you should be using 91.

[TFKninja]

Will do. next time I'm there I'm curious now.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Then I let the auto-shutoff determine the level of the gas.

Yeah, stop that.

Originally Posted by Jiggles

The auto shutoff will take it to the same level as long as you place the pump in the same position.

However it cuts off nearly a half gallon short so I'll just fill it myself

Again, stop that.

Fill it until the gas hits the bottom of the metal lip, and do the same the next time.

[NathanUc]

Originally Posted by Alex

Yeah, stop that.



Again, stop that.

Fill it until the gas hits the bottom of the metal lip, and do the same the next time.

Also, after you 'fill it up' wait like 30 seconds because I know on mine, the level seems to go down a bit.. or maybe I'm just crazy

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by NathanUc

Also, after you 'fill it up' wait like 30 seconds because I know on mine, the level seems to go down a bit.. or maybe I'm just crazy

but ive already spent an entire minute at the pump, I dont want to keep people waiting

[NathanUc]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

but ive already spent an entire minute at the pump, I dont want to keep people waiting

Lol I sit there and wipe my whole bike down with those free paper towels they have for wiping off windscreens :P

[stealth250]

I use Shell 92 octane fuel in my bike. It's what I prefer. Some people will argue that it is totally unnecessary and that's fine with me. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to use. We are all adults here (well, most of us) and can make our own decisions. But one of the biggest arguments about it is how much more it costs to run 92 octane vs. 87 octane in our beloved Ninja 250's. I know people will say it's a waste of money to run anything more than 87, (believe me, they will!), but I decided to do a little math and figure out just how much more it does cost.
So here's the skinny:
@ 3.59/gal x 4 gallons = $14.36 (87 octane)
@ 3.79/gal x 4 gallons = $15.16 (92 octane)
Now I have never personally been able to squeeze 4 gallons into my tank when it's on empty, usually about 3.8, but I figure it's easier to use round numbers for this.
Typically, I get around 225 miles to a tank.
14.36/225 = $.0638/mile
15.16/225 = $.0674/mile
I've ridden my bike 8900 miles in the 3 years that I've owned it.
.0638 x 8900 = $567.82
.0674 x 8900 = $599.86
That's a 3 year difference of $32.04. Which is $10.68/year or $0.21/week.
Now this is assuming I've paid the same price for gas for the last 3 years. As we all know it's gone up and down throughout that time and has been as low as around $2.75 and as high as $4.29. So, $3.59 and $3.79 are a pretty good average over 3 years.
I'm not going to go into which gas is better, or necessary, or whatever, because everyone has their own opinion and preference. But as far as cost difference between the two, there's hardly any. So am I wasting money on premium fuel? Some will say yes, but it's not much when you do the math!

[alex.s]

if it serves no purpose, then it is a waste. also i'd like to point out some people drive a lot more than 9k miles in 3 years

[Alex]

/merged with main octane thread

[Alex]

As for the math, it's 20 to 30 cents a gallon difference for every gallon one uses in the bike. Example numbers of 10,000 miles per year at 50 mpg = 200 gallons, so $40 - $60/year extra. That would go up or down depending on how many miles one runs, and the mileage they typically get. It's not a lot of money one way or the other. But whatever it costs, it's providing zero benefit. People certainly waste money on even sillier things, so this probably isn't the topic to have a knock-down drag-out debate over whether it's "worth it".

[Kanestar]

i use shell 87 because its right by my house if i use anything higher my bike seems to get sluggish

[MotoED]

I use Chevron premium(91)

[Alex]

Originally Posted by MotoED

I use Chevron premium(91)

[mdsmith]

Someone mentioned the key... Ninjas have an 11.5:1 compression ratio. Lower octane gas will pre-ignite at that ratio and the engine will exhibit "spark knock".... bad, bad, bad for the engine. So use gas with the recommended octane number or higher. Here's the caveat; octane content deteriorates with storage time. Since fewer customers use premium gas, it can be (and often is) "stale" from setting in the station's tanks and no longer has the posted octane rating.

[Kevin2109]

So you mean I should have spent the last 13k miles putting in premium and my bike would be running better then it already is? Thats not right

[Alex]

Originally Posted by mdsmith

Someone mentioned the key... Ninjas have an 11.5:1 compression ratio. Lower octane gas will pre-ignite at that ratio and the engine will exhibit "spark knock".... bad, bad, bad for the engine.

No, the ninjette engine is rated for 87 octane, and when running correctly will not knock or pre-ignite using the recommended fuel. While 11.5 was once considered a high compression ratio, nowadays it's not particularly high at all. More importantly, which such small cylinders and non-aggressive valve timing, the effective compression ratio in the ninjette engine isn't anywhere close to knocking using regular fuel.

Originally Posted by mdsmith

So use gas with the recommended octane number or higher.

Right. Which is 87 AKI for our bikes.

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

So you mean I should have spent the last 13k miles putting in premium and my bike would be running better then it already is? Thats not right

No, don't be confused. You're fine.

[Kevin2109]

I know, I was being a smart ass

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

So you mean I should have spent the last 13k miles putting in premium and my bike would be running better then it already is? Thats not right

I'm not sure what he's trying to say. IMHO, using anything over 87 is a waist of money unless you are running map #2 on the BRT TIS advanced timing controller.

I have high performance vehicles that require premium fuel to avoid spark knock. I don't think the fuel stations are carrying "stale" gas that's not the posted octane.... wouldn't I have spark knock in those vehicles and wouldn't each of us be able to sue for false advertisement?

[Kevin2109]

Originally Posted by dubojr1

I'm not sure what he trying to say. IMHO, using anything over 87 is a waist of money unless you are running map #2 on the BRT TIS advanced timing controller.

I have high performance vehicles that require premium fuel to avoid spark knock. I don't think the fuel stations are carrying "stale" gas that's not the posted octane.... wouldn't I have spark knock in those vehicles and wouldn't each of us be able to sue for false advertisement?

I was being a smart ass btw

And speaking of BRT TIS, I'll be ordering mine soon

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

And speaking of BRT TIS, I'll be ordering mine soon

[stealth250]

Just a friendly observation, not a knock down, drag out!
But, as for your math vs. mine, yours assumes one is using the bike 52 weeks out of the year. Which may be true in sunny California, but here in Indy, I have no interest in riding in the rain, 6 inches of snow, or 25 degree weather for 1/2 of the year. I use mine as a fun economical alternative way to get around besides my Suburban. When I fill up the tank in my bike, it might last me 2-3 weeks. And to spend $16.00 on a tank full for it is nothing compared to the 42 gallon capacity Suburban. $16.00 of any gas doesn't even register on the gauge in that thing! So when I leave the station after filling up the bike, I have a big smile inside my helmet knowing that it's still WAAAY cheaper than the big red pig that sits in my driveway on nice days!
So I guess it will be more expensive based on total use, but my point was that it isn't some insane amount of money to use one versus the other. Maybe I'm just old school, stubborn or set in my ways when it comes to fuel, but I'm a Drag Racer/Hot Rodder too, and when I see 10:1 compression on anything, it just makes sense to me to use higher octane just to eliminate the possibility of detonation. Maybe it doesn't happen with these bikes, but I've seen the result of detonation and pre-ignition and it's not pretty.
This subject is no different than the type of oil people prefer to use. In the end it's all just oil and it lubricates. Some use conventional cheap stuff, some use synthetic. The manual doesn't say anything about using synthetic, but yet people do. So other than longevity, is there any real advantage to using synthetic? Probably not. Are synthetic users wasting money? Maybe. Do I feel better when I put synthetic oil and premium gas in my bike? Yes. And that's all that matters to me.

[Alex]

It has similarities to the oil discussions in that it is seemingly never resolved. But the oil debate has some technical merit attached to it, as different oils do have different properties that over time can affect an engine in different ways. To your point, the synths can last longer before breaking down, but if the oil is changed enough that breakdown isn't an issue, then its advantage might be nebulous. Even though there really is a difference, and certain types of oils do have intrinsic benefits.

The octane discussion is slightly different. There is no advantage in using a fuel that has a higher octane rating than is required for the bike. That's just not a debatable point. What is debatable, is if it makes people feel better to buy something that is marked "premium", based on old-time biases, or the fact that the difference in cost is so minor that who really cares anyhow. But the answer is still clear. Putting in any higher octane fuel into a vehicle that does not require it has no advantage whatsoever, whether in performance, reliability, mileage, emissions, or ability to attract the opposite sex. It's just spending a little bit extra for no benefit.

(P.S. Years from now, a large portion of my retirement benefits will be funded by those who chose to pay oil companies more than necessary, so I'm really shooting myself in the foot here )

[stealth250]

Well my wife will be glad to know that it won't help in attracting the opposite sex! Maybe that's why she won't get on it! And I'm glad I could be a part of what is to be your retirement fund! It all balances out anyway. I prefer to drink coffee from Speedway or Dunkin Donuts rather than Starbucks!

[stealth250]

Originally Posted by Alex

Wait...where's my cookie?! See there is an advantage, you get cookies!!!

[blink]

i dont understand this argument, they arent high compression motors and dont need it...DONE

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by blink

i dont understand this argument, they arent high compression motors and dont need it...DONE

+1

[Lil_Green_Demon]

I was speaking to a couple of members from this site earlier today and they assured me that 87 octane fuel would be all right for this bike. I've been running 91 the entire time.
I'm planning on sticking with 91, but it's nice to know I can run 87 if I need to.
I'm curious now, though. What octane rated fuel do you guys fill your bikes up with? Are you strictly 91+ octane or is 87 all right with you?

[Lil_Green_Demon]

@ the thread title. I meant "fuel," not "oil." Sorry if that causes any confusion.

[WhiteRice]

Mom says 87...

[Trailerboy531]

There is literally no benefit to running 91 in these bikes. Octane is the resistance to explosion of the gasoline if you will, 91 simply resists more and our bikes don't need that. To give a brief/vague explanation.

[noche_caliente]

Octane, Money and You??? What do you run in your 250 and why?

[Alex]

/merged

[Heed]

Whatever the owners manual says.

[jnninja250r]

I use 89, but only because it's typically cheaper than 87 in this area.

[Brittas]

I use super unleaded here in the U.K ..99 octane. Costs more seems to rev better and MPG is good.

[n4mwd]

This is a super old thread. We are necroposting for sure. The first post is from 3 years ago. In any event, I use the 87 because the higher octane has more alcohol in it and is bad (worse) for the bike. They weren't putting as much alcohol in three years ago when this thread was started.