January 15th, 2012, 04:19 PM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Sam
Location: Ohio
Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2005 HON CBR1000RR Repsol, 2012 KAW Ninja 250R Posts: 131
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Metal piece under stock front fender
I'm replacing the stock bodywork with race bodywork. Today when I removed the stock front fender I see a fairly large metal brace that runs underneath the fender. It bolts to each fork tube and also holds the cable management brackets on each side. The OEM fiche calls this "BRACE-ASSY,FRONT."
I think I can remove this brace and save weight, but I thought I'd ask here. It may even interfere with my race bodywork, I haven't test fit it yet. Can I remove this brace? |
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January 15th, 2012, 04:53 PM | #2 |
ninjette.org member
Name: David
Location: Arvada
Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Ninja 250r Track bike, Honda CRF250r Dirt bike Posts: 137
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I dont think you can, the fender bolts onto the brace, so unless you dont want a front fender, i dont think it would be possible. i guess you could always make a new one that is lighter. And it will not interfere with race bodywork, the fender is the same as the stock one.... just lighter.
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January 15th, 2012, 08:18 PM | #3 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Sam
Location: Ohio
Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2005 HON CBR1000RR Repsol, 2012 KAW Ninja 250R Posts: 131
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Thanks Zyconic ! If the fender bolts to the brace, I guess it stays on the bike.
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January 16th, 2012, 11:00 AM | #5 |
CMRA Mini Endurance #6
Name: Randy
Location: Paradise, Tx
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): CBR954, CBR600RR, EX250 Posts: 108
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We cut it horizontally on both sides just above the mounting bolts, so that the "crossover" piece was removed. We removed the cable management stuff on the left side since we also removed that cable (speedometer).
The fender is only attached using the side bolts. |
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January 18th, 2012, 12:29 PM | #6 |
L8APEX
Name: CRA#33 EXPERT
Location: Mankato, MN
Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): 07 KTM 950SMR, 06 KTM 450SMR, 99 KTM 300MXC, 00 Derbi GPR 50, 09 Ninja 250 racebike, race with www.cra-mn.org! Posts: 233
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That "fender mount" is a fork brace. Designed to keep the front end from twisting up like a pretzel on the track. It adds a substantional amount of stiffness to the front of the bike, especially on the brakes. Leave it alone! I'm trying to wrap my head around a way to make a stiffer one that looks stock!
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January 25th, 2012, 12:26 AM | #7 |
R&T Suspension
Name: K Hertell
Location: San Antonio, TEXAS
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 175
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The EX's handle better at speed w/o a fork brace. Believe it or not.
The little advantage was under braking, but you can deal w/ the twisting under braking. The binding up/chatter fast sweeper runing off track problem sucks. Better w/o it if you are a front runner |
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January 25th, 2012, 05:25 AM | #8 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Sam
Location: Ohio
Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2005 HON CBR1000RR Repsol, 2012 KAW Ninja 250R Posts: 131
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I've been thinking about this. I haven't ridden the ninjette yet so I don't have any experience with it, but I've never raced a bike with a fork brace. The Honda CBR250R I raced last year has the same size forks too. I haven't gone as far as try to compare frame/fork construction or geometry...
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January 31st, 2012, 08:34 PM | #9 | |
Avid enjoyer of life.
Name: Sheldon
Location: Studio City
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2011 EX250 2010 R6 2008 ZX6R 2010 EX650R Posts: 110
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Quote:
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February 2nd, 2012, 09:11 PM | #10 | |
L8APEX
Name: CRA#33 EXPERT
Location: Mankato, MN
Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): 07 KTM 950SMR, 06 KTM 450SMR, 99 KTM 300MXC, 00 Derbi GPR 50, 09 Ninja 250 racebike, race with www.cra-mn.org! Posts: 233
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Quote:
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www.joemillersmoderngarage.com www.starr-cycle.com ***The most important concept of science isn't memorizing facts, it's observation of phenomena.*** |
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February 2nd, 2012, 11:25 PM | #11 |
Avid enjoyer of life.
Name: Sheldon
Location: Studio City
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2011 EX250 2010 R6 2008 ZX6R 2010 EX650R Posts: 110
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I am running 5 weight oil for now and it seems to be doing just fine, I set it at 10mm below stock since i set my emulators a bit stiffer for racing, I also modified my dampening rod to accomodate more equal flow.
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February 3rd, 2012, 12:05 PM | #12 |
R&T Suspension
Name: K Hertell
Location: San Antonio, TEXAS
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 175
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You are either on a slow track or not going fast enough.
They WILL chatter, mainly on very fast sweepers. |
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February 5th, 2012, 10:08 PM | #13 | |
L8APEX
Name: CRA#33 EXPERT
Location: Mankato, MN
Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): 07 KTM 950SMR, 06 KTM 450SMR, 99 KTM 300MXC, 00 Derbi GPR 50, 09 Ninja 250 racebike, race with www.cra-mn.org! Posts: 233
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Quote:
The 3.1-mile Donnybrooke Road Course has 10 turns and is considered wide – the main straight is 60 feet wide. There is essentially no elevation change. BIR is a very high-speed course; vehicles can reach speeds of nearly 160 mph and take the slowest corners around 80 mph. There are wide runoff areas at most of the corners, which makes BIR’s road course extremely safe. Whether they were Superbike riders, professional Trans-Am drivers or car club members, household names in road racing have challenged the road course’s 10 turns, including Turn 1, a banked right-hand 60-degree turn that continues to be the fastest turn on any road course in the country. So I must be slow? LOL
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www.joemillersmoderngarage.com www.starr-cycle.com ***The most important concept of science isn't memorizing facts, it's observation of phenomena.*** |
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February 5th, 2012, 11:25 PM | #14 | |
Avid enjoyer of life.
Name: Sheldon
Location: Studio City
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2011 EX250 2010 R6 2008 ZX6R 2010 EX650R Posts: 110
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Quote:
+1
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February 6th, 2012, 08:37 AM | #15 | |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
This is somewhat true. Stock geometry will cause the bike to chatter if 1) you're entry speed is fast and 2) depends on the turn/corner. Mid way through the season I started to experience really bad chatter in certain corners...not all but there were two corners that caused the front to chatter like crazy. Once I changed the setup the chatter completely disappeared.
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February 6th, 2012, 10:04 AM | #16 |
Avid enjoyer of life.
Name: Sheldon
Location: Studio City
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2011 EX250 2010 R6 2008 ZX6R 2010 EX650R Posts: 110
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Yes! good catch Nemesis, I guess my "1" grew legs , it is 15w.
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February 6th, 2012, 10:11 AM | #17 |
CVMA / AFM / M1GP #250
Name: Steve
Location: Los Angeles
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r, 2011 Zero S, 2009 KLR 650 Posts: A lot.
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February 6th, 2012, 10:53 AM | #18 |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
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Yes.
I don't understand why the brace would make such a huge difference under braking. Could someone please explain this to me? Someone w/experience that is.
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February 6th, 2012, 11:46 AM | #19 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Sam
Location: Ohio
Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2005 HON CBR1000RR Repsol, 2012 KAW Ninja 250R Posts: 131
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Based on the feedback in this thread, I think i'll start with the fork brace on, but as I get used to the bike, experiment with taking the brace off. I think results will vary based on riding style, track layout and surface, etc.
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February 6th, 2012, 05:58 PM | #20 |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
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I don't understand this...by "fork brace" are you referring to the metal piece under the front fender?
It's not a fork brace...it's just there to stabilize the front fender from bouncing around.
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February 7th, 2012, 12:01 AM | #21 |
L8APEX
Name: CRA#33 EXPERT
Location: Mankato, MN
Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): 07 KTM 950SMR, 06 KTM 450SMR, 99 KTM 300MXC, 00 Derbi GPR 50, 09 Ninja 250 racebike, race with www.cra-mn.org! Posts: 233
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Come on, Nem you really think they would build a fender mount that beefy. That's not very cost effective. It's a fork brace too.
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www.joemillersmoderngarage.com www.starr-cycle.com ***The most important concept of science isn't memorizing facts, it's observation of phenomena.*** |
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February 7th, 2012, 12:34 AM | #22 |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
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Maybe you guys are right but I seriously think you guys are reading into this way too much. A fork brAce for a 250? LOL
But out of curiousity I'll ask my contact (design engineer) @ kawi. Can't wait to hear the answer. Haha
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February 7th, 2012, 08:02 AM | #23 |
CVMA / AFM / M1GP #250
Name: Steve
Location: Los Angeles
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r, 2011 Zero S, 2009 KLR 650 Posts: A lot.
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hey they make them for dirtbikes! and its probably cheaper to make a fork brace than put real front forks on these bikes
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February 7th, 2012, 08:20 AM | #24 |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
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Dirt bikes I can understand but a street bike like our 250s? Oh, thanks for reminding me to send an email. LOL
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February 7th, 2012, 11:08 AM | #25 |
R&T Suspension
Name: K Hertell
Location: San Antonio, TEXAS
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 175
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Nem and Smoke, the things WILL chatter when you go faster.
Even w/ geo. changes. |
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February 7th, 2012, 11:16 AM | #26 | |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
And define "when you go faster"?
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February 7th, 2012, 11:46 AM | #27 |
R&T Suspension
Name: K Hertell
Location: San Antonio, TEXAS
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 175
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W/ or w/o the brace they will chatter.
In our experience it chatters at a higher speed on our tracks w/o the brace. So we don't run the brace. If you aren't feeling it then you aren't going fast enough. I'm not being a jerk, it is just that simple. Last futzed with by ROADandTRACK; February 7th, 2012 at 11:47 AM. Reason: I'm talking about an actual fork brace. the fender mount doesn't do much. |
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February 7th, 2012, 12:02 PM | #28 | |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
And here's the key word "on our tracks". And since we all race on different tracks not all of us may experience what you have experienced. Also, after I eliminated the chatter I ran 2 seconds faster. Then in the last round 3 seconds faster and still no chatter. So what exactly am I doing wrong if I'm going faster but am not experiencing chatter. Sorry not trying to be a jerk.
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February 7th, 2012, 12:04 PM | #29 |
R&T Suspension
Name: K Hertell
Location: San Antonio, TEXAS
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 175
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February 7th, 2012, 12:14 PM | #30 |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
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Okay, go faster so I can feel chatter again even after eliminating it. Then what shall I do once I eliminate the chatter. Go even faster? I like the way this guy thinks. At this rate, I'll be doing 2:05s in no time.
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February 7th, 2012, 12:19 PM | #31 |
R&T Suspension
Name: K Hertell
Location: San Antonio, TEXAS
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 175
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That's what you are supposed to do.
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February 7th, 2012, 12:21 PM | #32 |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
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February 7th, 2012, 03:11 PM | #33 | |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
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This just in:
Quote:
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February 7th, 2012, 03:27 PM | #34 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Justin
Location: FL
Join Date: Nov 2009 Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja 250r Posts: 16
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Here is a fork brace my buddy and I built. Its based on one he made for his bike, just a little smaller. It changes the way my bike handles for the positive. Think of it as an anti- sway bar on a car. That thing under the fender, I don't know what thing is suppose to "Brace". BTW, I ride on the street only. I know the track is different, but it works great on the street.
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February 7th, 2012, 03:43 PM | #35 |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
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^^^
Why? Makes no sense whatsoever. Struts on cars vs on motorcycles?? Apples & oranges, my friend. Apples & oranges.
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February 7th, 2012, 06:29 PM | #36 |
R&T Suspension
Name: K Hertell
Location: San Antonio, TEXAS
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 175
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I agree, take that off.
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February 7th, 2012, 06:47 PM | #37 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Justin
Location: FL
Join Date: Nov 2009 Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja 250r Posts: 16
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February 7th, 2012, 07:00 PM | #38 |
L8APEX
Name: CRA#33 EXPERT
Location: Mankato, MN
Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): 07 KTM 950SMR, 06 KTM 450SMR, 99 KTM 300MXC, 00 Derbi GPR 50, 09 Ninja 250 racebike, race with www.cra-mn.org! Posts: 233
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I still don't understand why Kawi would build a piece that big to just "hold the fender" . It makes no sense to have the loop of metal over the wheel if that is the case. Keep in mind we don't have pinch bolts at the bottom of the fork legs keeping torsion forces off of the axle.
And who is being quoted here?
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www.joemillersmoderngarage.com www.starr-cycle.com ***The most important concept of science isn't memorizing facts, it's observation of phenomena.*** |
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February 8th, 2012, 09:07 PM | #39 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Sam
Location: Ohio
Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2005 HON CBR1000RR Repsol, 2012 KAW Ninja 250R Posts: 131
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Interesting thread here
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February 9th, 2012, 12:08 PM | #40 |
R&T Suspension
Name: K Hertell
Location: San Antonio, TEXAS
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 175
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And it looks silly
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