The Ninja 300 will fail

[psych0hans]

I don't like CBRs...

/thread

[JA-Moo]

this IS the scenario.........

how much a month for the Kawi over the Honda.......

12 bucks..........

I'll take the Ninja........

[psych0hans]

Originally Posted by JA-Moo

this IS the scenario.........

how much a month for the Kawi over the Honda.......

12 bucks..........

I'll take the Ninja........

Dude, forget 12 bucks, A Ninja 250 in India costs twice as much as the CBR 250r... It still sells...

CBR 250r - 2760$
Ninja 250r - 5520$

People still buy Ninjas... No doubt the CBR sells way better, but you can't beat the price.

[Major_Paine]

Originally Posted by ninjaone

Do you find that surprising when your sample population is the people who approach a green colored motorcycle wanting to talk to the rider?

whats your sample population. most people have heard of what a motorcycle is, and kawasaki has always marketed hard to the US. If i was to go out right now and ask a random person on the street to name a motorcycle, its likely the first response would be ninja, not honda

[Jiggles]

When I first started to look at motorcycles all I knew was that there were yamahas and ninjas

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Whiskey

Lets play the bike paternity test...
The baby


The rest of the family

Originally Posted by Major_Paine

What we dont know is that the OP is actually working for kawasaki.. and gauging our interest in the bike by starting a crazy flaming thread with a ridiculous title

well played kawasaki. well played.

[ninjaone]

Originally Posted by Major_Paine

whats your sample population. most people have heard of what a motorcycle is, and kawasaki has always marketed hard to the US. If i was to go out right now and ask a random person on the street to name a motorcycle, its likely the first response would be ninja, not honda

I think you're wrong. Of course everyone on this forum is going to say they heard of Kawasaki first, that's probably a big reason why you are riding a Kawasaki now and is the whole point of marketing in general. But if we are really talking about what the general population knows about motorcycling, Honda is by far the Japanese brand with the most name recognition.

Just because you had posters on your wall of a Ninja doesn't mean anyone else did. Marketing is about understanding the whole demographic, not the slice you happen to see.

[Jiggles]

I'm going to test this

My money is on everyone at least knowing harley

[gt_turbo]

trolls GTFO!

[Racer x]

If you ask people that have never look twice at a motorcycle and have never wanted a motorcycle and are never going to buy a motorcycle. Thay probably have never heard of Kawasaki and they think Yamaha makes pianos. But no one cares about them. They are not going to purchas either a Honda or a Kawasaki.
But if you ask anyone that has taken any interest in motorcycles. They will know about Kawasaki or at least knows there name

[ninjaone]

Originally Posted by Racer x

If you ask people that have never look twice at a motorcycle and have never wanted a motorcycle and are never going to buy a motorcycle. Thay probably have never heard of Kawasaki and they think Yamaha makes pianos. But no one cares about them. They are not going to purchas either a Honda or a Kawasaki.
But if you ask anyone that has taken any interest in motorcycles. They will know about Kawasaki or at least knows there name

Companies marketing entry level beginner motorcycles care, because once they wake up and decide to buy one they will already have a company in mind. I'm very curious how many Honda motorcycle owners previously owned Civics or Accords. From my experience in the real world, there is a shocking amount of overlap and without Honda's passenger car popularity in this country, I bet they would be far far behind Kawasaki in terms of sales.

[choneofakind]

I drove a civic. Thing ran like a clock. Never needed anything. Then my parents sold it. My family has owned many civics and accords over the years, and I plan to look at them when it's time for me to buy a car.

But I ride a ninja

[Boom King]

Thread's kinda going around in circles here with all the anecdotal evidence and rebuttals with more anecdotal evidence...

Whatever the actual case might be, with all the resources available with a few keystrokes and mouse clicks, I find it shocking that anyone would be wiling to throw all that cash towards something without doing some research. Unless you're a squid... around here the only motorcycle that exists in the universe is the Gixxer 600.

[Racer x]

Honda has only been making the 250 for two years. It is not even a player yet.

[arnoldc6]

Have you ever seen a CBR 250? That thing is ugly. just ****ing ugly. And weirdly skinny too.
Although i do agree with the pricing part..Plus dealer fees, tax and everything a ninja 300 costs well over 8grand in my state.
I aint paying anything beyond 5.5k...with that price 30% more and you can get a zx6r already.

[arnoldc6]

Originally Posted by Racer x

....they think Yamaha makes pianos.....

you made my day

[choneofakind]

You know, Yamaha makes all kinds of instruments.

[Racer x]

Ya but the ridiculousness of this thread deserves it. Did you know Yamaha sold there motorcycle division

[choneofakind]

I did not actually.

[Racer x]

I think it was in 2009. The family felt it was to big for them to manage. I will look for a link.

[arnoldc6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_Motor_Company

Funny how they says "piano gives them inspiration for making sport bikes".

[DennyV]

most idiots who dont know crap will say harley, Ask an idiot about honda and they'll think you're talking about cars, lawn mowers, or generators. The ninja is one of the most iconic sports bikes along with gsxrs, kawi and suzuki has made a name for themselves with those two sport bikes, when talking to my dads friends who dont know anything about mikes, i mention a sport bike and first thing they as is, like a ninja?

[Heed]

Originally Posted by arnoldc6

Have you ever seen a CBR 250? That thing is ugly. just ****ing ugly. And weirdly skinny too.
Although i do agree with the pricing part..Plus dealer fees, tax and everything a ninja 300 costs well over 8grand in my state.
I aint paying anything beyond 5.5k...with that price 30% more and you can get a zx6r already.

$8,000 for a Ninja 300 in Honolulu!? damn, and I thought I felt bad for people in California.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by arnoldc6

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_Motor_Company

Funny how they says "piano gives them inspiration for making sport bikes".

Good read

I liked how Yamaha helped develop the engines in the Ford Taurus SHO in the 90's Normally, fords version of making a vehicle make more power has been to stuff an F150 engine in it

[arnoldc6]

Originally Posted by Heed

$8,000 for a Ninja 300 in Honolulu!? damn, and I thought I felt bad for people in California.

price quote was done by someone else on this forum.
I think I might be better off buying it in another state and ship it here for about $500
a 2012 was about 6k when I was thinking about getting one. Glad I didn't.

[Timr]

i think the 300 is hot as hell but the biggest problem i see with it (which is also the reason i won't be buying one) is it is no longer eligible for 250 race classes.
i know that this might be minority sales but it is still a big number.
here in aus we have a 250 production class with 3 eligible bikes, the ninja 250, the meggeli 250 and the cbr 250. since this class was introuduced to run with the australian super bikes the ninja sales took off (can't remember the figure) because not only did people want them to race but as the saying goes "win on sunday, sell on monday"
so with the ninja no longer able to compeate i can see sales falling off.
it won't fail but i think it might end up being a bit of a miss calculation on their part.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by Timr

i think the 300 is hot as hell but the biggest problem i see with it (which is also the reason i won't be buying one) is it is no longer eligible for 250 race classes.

i seriously doubt kawasaki didn't have a plan for this.

[Timr]

Originally Posted by lgk

i seriously doubt kawasaki didn't have a plan for this.

i hope so but i am yet to see any evidence of it. the rules can be changed. for eg the 675 daytona can race in the 600 classes but if they don't change the rule to include it, it will suck.

[thurt88]

I would love Yamaha to get into this. That R4 would be nice.

[JA-Moo]

My guess there is such a small percentage of Ninja's racing, I don't think Kawasaki would even consider that as a factor..............

[csmith12]

When you say Ninja around my parts most people think of 2 things. A guy in a black costume with a sword and one of "dem der crotch rockets" and then the old the old farmer goes back to cuttin' hay.

My area's knowledge of bikes is tainted by the 100+ sport bikes that ride (or race depending on who you ask) through local roads every weekend there is good weather. To the average person, they all are crotch rockets first and if you ask them what kind... they say they all are ninjas or they look at me funny.

[Timr]

Originally Posted by JA-Moo

My guess there is such a small percentage of Ninja's racing, I don't think Kawasaki would even consider that as a factor..............

ok so just did a bir of research

first half of 2012 there where 1257 nija 250's sold in aus
since the 250 class was introduced ninja sales increased (on average) 15.4% per yer
the 5 years previous to its introduction sales increased (on average) 5.2% per year
there are 21 riders in the asbk (national series) on ninjas and most have 2 bikes

qld and has a ninja 250 series and has around 20 riders (can't find exact numbers)
wa also has a ninja 250 series which is smaller with only 14 riders.
tas has 2 r/r clubs
wa has 2 r/r clubs
nt has 2r/r clubs (maybe more but i don't know of any more
qld has 4 r/r clubs
nsw has 5 r/r clubs
sa has 6 r/r clubs
vic has 6 r/r clubs

it would be a low guess to say that each club has at least 1 ninja 250 (there are 4 between 2 clubs here in tas where road racing is on of the smallest forms of racing (particapant based)
so froom those numbers alone

so that is AT LEAST 103 bikes which is 8.19% of sales which comes really close to fitting perfectly.
i stick by a previous comment, racers are a minority but that is still close to 10% of sales. that in my book is still a big hit in sales
also might be worth noting that the ninja has been the biggest selling 250 here in aus for a LONG time.
i also know that this is only 1 country and other places might be different.
i still think the 300 will be a big seller but i think that a whole new 250 would be better (here) as long as it still had that sexxy body on it.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by csmith12

When you say Ninja around my parts most people think of 2 things. A guy in a black costume with a sword and one of "dem der crotch rockets" and then the old the old farmer goes back to cuttin' hay.

My area's knowledge of bikes is tainted by the 100+ sport bikes that ride (or race depending on who you ask) through local roads every weekend there is good weather. To the average person, they all are crotch rockets first and if you ask them what kind... they say they all are ninjas or they look at me funny.

its either a cruiser or ninja around here too.

who ever came up with the ninja brand is a genius.

[JA-Moo]

I think if you looked at worldwide sales, the % would drop quite a bit. Add in the (most likely) sales increase from the redesign, that % would be even smaller.

You have to take into consideration the the little bikes are not real money makers for the factories, they are basically for building brand loyalty. Then flip new riders onto the bigger models.

[miss_syn]

Aside from the power increase, I think the biggest offering the 300 has is the digital gauges, FI, and larger-CC styling. Everything the people wanted on the 500 in a bigger package.

Perhaps Kawasaki looked at the cost of putting these on the 250, saw it would make it X number of dollars more than the CBR250 and said "let's try something else."

[Alex]

Originally Posted by JA-Moo

You have to take into consideration the the little bikes are not real money makers for the factories, they are basically for building brand loyalty. Then flip new riders onto the bigger models.

I'm not as sure of this. The thinking has always been, design them to be profitable in year one, amortize the tooling by year 5, and then there is a surprising amount of profit for the next 5 or more years with almost no R&D or other investment. There might be less profit by segment where they do need to redesign every 2 or 3 years if they want to sell any bikes at all.

[Timr]

Originally Posted by JA-Moo

I think if you looked at worldwide sales, the % would drop quite a bit. Add in the (most likely) sales increase from the redesign, that % would be even smaller.

You have to take into consideration the the little bikes are not real money makers for the factories, they are basically for building brand loyalty. Then flip new riders onto the bigger models.

compleatly agree that they are used for creating brand loyalty for when people upgrade to bigger bikes but i think the are a big money maker because acording to the same reference kawasaki sold 4882 bikes in the same time period. that 25% of their total sales.

i personally think a large conrtibutor to this is also with fuel prices constantly rising and new laws that have made it stupid hard to get a car licence young people are just getting bikes instead. we also have whats called the "L.A.M.S." (learner aproved motorcycle scheme) rule for bikes here which restricts what bikes people can ride on their learner and provisional licence. the lams scheme restricts people to a 250 with the exception of the rgv250, rs250 and other race replica 2 stroke 250's anthing over that has to be aproved by the government. if they dont then sales will take a Huge dive dive here to almost nothing... man i hope not just.

i am agreeing that its a great little thing but i think it might be harder for it here in aus compared to other bikes.

i also agree that without these rules in other countries that this will massively change the % world wide but still its a big hole. also

[Numbersix]

The 300 will succeed; for the $, it's a great piece of machinery. It's a great improvement and obviously targets the buyer who wants the sportbike experience. It takes EFI (finally) and many of the most common Ninjette mods and builds them into the as-delivered bike.

Honda's entry is obviously tailored at the urban rider who is doing *some* highway miles but more downtown, suburban, or other not-interstate riding.

Thing is, in those environments, if the buyer isn't made insecure by a scooter, their PCX150 is even better.

I popped over to Honda's site and noted that 2013 model year is TBD. Should be interesting to see how everything lines up $ to $.

[Old Lemon]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

When I first started to look at motorcycles all I knew was that there were yamahas and ninjas

the only thing i knew was that hondas were red, yamahas were blue, kawasakis were green, and didnt know suzuki existed. i had to have a green bike so my choice was obvious

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Numbersix

It takes EFI (finally) and many of the most common Ninjette mods and builds them into the as-delivered bike.

What? Who is adding slipper clutches, webbed wheels, supersport fairings, ugly quiet exhausts and boring the engine?