ninjette.org

Go Back   ninjette.org > 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R > 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 23rd, 2012, 01:57 PM   #1
Jiggles
Jigglin' your Jiglets
 
Jiggles's Avatar
 
Name: Sean
Location: San Jose, Ca
Join Date: Jun 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2009 K1300S, 2013 Ninja 300, 2011 Ninja 250R, Faster than Unregistered's ninjette

Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 1
MOTM - Apr '13
Ecotrons Install Thread

All questions and issues regarding installation of the ecotrons kit should be dealt with in this thread.
__________________________________________________
If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it.
AFM #676
Supersports are for n00bs
Jiggles is offline   Reply With Quote




Old February 23rd, 2012, 03:34 PM   #2
flynjay
ninjette.org guru
 
flynjay's Avatar
 
Name: Jason
Location: Houston, TX
Join Date: Nov 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 (sold), '06 Ninja 650R

Posts: 455
Subscribed.

I put my MAP sensor diaphragm together last night. I probably won't get to try it out until Saturday.
flynjay is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 23rd, 2012, 04:38 PM   #3
lgk
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: Jason
Location: Norfolk, VA
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2012 EX250, 2014 EX300

Posts: A lot.
got my bike apart and getting ready to install.
lgk is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 23rd, 2012, 07:03 PM   #4
n4mwd
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
n4mwd's Avatar
 
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by flynjay View Post
Subscribed.

I put my MAP sensor diaphragm together last night. I probably won't get to try it out until Saturday.
That sounded like a clever design. I'd definitely like to know how well it works.

The only thing I am worried about is that in all the solutions posted, the fuel still gets into the line, but is blocked from getting to the sensor. The presence of fuel may interfere with the sensor's operation because fuel is harder to move than air. IDK.

I was thinking that a more permanent solution would be to get a short piece of brake line and thread one end. Then screw that into a drilled and threaded hole in the TB at the 4 O'clock position. (Using JB-Weld as a thread sealer). That way, you significantly reduce the probability of gas getting into the port. This is especially true for people who mounted upside down.
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog
Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED!
n4mwd is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 23rd, 2012, 07:30 PM   #5
EMSRacer07
ninjette.org sage
 
EMSRacer07's Avatar
 
Name: Byron
Location: Reno, NV
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): Ninja ex250 1990

Posts: 761
Quote:
Originally Posted by n4mwd View Post
That sounded like a clever design. I'd definitely like to know how well it works.

The only thing I am worried about is that in all the solutions posted, the fuel still gets into the line, but is blocked from getting to the sensor. The presence of fuel may interfere with the sensor's operation because fuel is harder to move than air. IDK.

I was thinking that a more permanent solution would be to get a short piece of brake line and thread one end. Then screw that into a drilled and threaded hole in the TB at the 4 O'clock position. (Using JB-Weld as a thread sealer). That way, you significantly reduce the probability of gas getting into the port. This is especially true for people who mounted upside down.
Well from idk who said Matt might be able to stop that certain amount of fuel from entering the tube. Maybe the system is running a bit rich somewhere?

But having my MAP sensor attached right under my gas tank has not failed me yet. but still want to put something in it to, like u said, make sure its not reducing the sensor operation.
__________________________________________________
1990 250F. ex300 motor swap, 15/42 gearing, flush side markers, newgen intergrated front fairing, rear integrated turn signals, DB Touring Bubble, zx600 rear shock, Custom DanMoto Exhaust
EMSRacer07 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 23rd, 2012, 07:33 PM   #6
flynjay
ninjette.org guru
 
flynjay's Avatar
 
Name: Jason
Location: Houston, TX
Join Date: Nov 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 (sold), '06 Ninja 650R

Posts: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by n4mwd View Post
That sounded like a clever design. I'd definitely like to know how well it works.

The only thing I am worried about is that in all the solutions posted, the fuel still gets into the line, but is blocked from getting to the sensor. The presence of fuel may interfere with the sensor's operation because fuel is harder to move than air. IDK.

I was thinking that a more permanent solution would be to get a short piece of brake line and thread one end. Then screw that into a drilled and threaded hole in the TB at the 4 O'clock position. (Using JB-Weld as a thread sealer). That way, you significantly reduce the probability of gas getting into the port. This is especially true for people who mounted upside down.
From my experience the fuel in the line hasn't affected the MAP sensor reading. I thought about just putting a brass tube inside the map sensor tube so that it pulls from further off the wall of the throttle body. That is the next iteration.

I tend to try not to make permanent change unless I have to. There is always a solution.
flynjay is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 23rd, 2012, 09:57 PM   #7
setasai
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
setasai's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Location: Detroit, MI
Join Date: Jun 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Green

Posts: A lot.
Same. Matt thinks it has to do with a timing issue for me because mine is coming from the top. He's got a few ideas for me to test out this weekend. I'll keep you all posted.
__________________________________________________
2009 Ninja 250R SE Green Sport Touring Style:
ZG ST; Symtec heated grips; RAM GPS w/ mUSB; DIY reshaped seat; DIY Givi E21 Sidecases; 15T sprocket
setasai is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 23rd, 2012, 10:11 PM   #8
EMSRacer07
ninjette.org sage
 
EMSRacer07's Avatar
 
Name: Byron
Location: Reno, NV
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): Ninja ex250 1990

Posts: 761
Quote:
Originally Posted by setasai View Post
Same. Matt thinks it has to do with a timing issue for me because mine is coming from the top. He's got a few ideas for me to test out this weekend. I'll keep you all posted.
good deal. maybe it will help us upside down guys
__________________________________________________
1990 250F. ex300 motor swap, 15/42 gearing, flush side markers, newgen intergrated front fairing, rear integrated turn signals, DB Touring Bubble, zx600 rear shock, Custom DanMoto Exhaust
EMSRacer07 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 23rd, 2012, 10:19 PM   #9
setasai
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
setasai's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Location: Detroit, MI
Join Date: Jun 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Green

Posts: A lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EMSRacer07 View Post
good deal. maybe it will help us upside down guys
Or maybe we can figure out a way to turn all you upside down guys to right side up guys... haha

Assuming it all works out that is.
__________________________________________________
2009 Ninja 250R SE Green Sport Touring Style:
ZG ST; Symtec heated grips; RAM GPS w/ mUSB; DIY reshaped seat; DIY Givi E21 Sidecases; 15T sprocket
setasai is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 23rd, 2012, 10:22 PM   #10
choneofakind
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: .
Location: .
Join Date: Feb 2011

Motorcycle(s): .

Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14
Quote:
Originally Posted by setasai View Post
Or maybe we can figure out a way to turn all you upside down guys to right side up guys... haha
solved

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia
choneofakind is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 23rd, 2012, 10:28 PM   #11
Scattcatt
ninjette.org sage
 
Scattcatt's Avatar
 
Name: Zach
Location: Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2003 Honda CBR600RR

Posts: 721
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by choneofakind View Post
LOL! I haven't laughed that hard since the Hitler video!
__________________________________________________
ATGATT
Scattcatt is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 23rd, 2012, 10:30 PM   #12
setasai
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
setasai's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Location: Detroit, MI
Join Date: Jun 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Green

Posts: A lot.
Hahahahahahah NICE!!!
__________________________________________________
2009 Ninja 250R SE Green Sport Touring Style:
ZG ST; Symtec heated grips; RAM GPS w/ mUSB; DIY reshaped seat; DIY Givi E21 Sidecases; 15T sprocket
setasai is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 23rd, 2012, 10:31 PM   #13
EMSRacer07
ninjette.org sage
 
EMSRacer07's Avatar
 
Name: Byron
Location: Reno, NV
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): Ninja ex250 1990

Posts: 761
lol haha
__________________________________________________
1990 250F. ex300 motor swap, 15/42 gearing, flush side markers, newgen intergrated front fairing, rear integrated turn signals, DB Touring Bubble, zx600 rear shock, Custom DanMoto Exhaust
EMSRacer07 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 24th, 2012, 07:52 AM   #14
flynjay
ninjette.org guru
 
flynjay's Avatar
 
Name: Jason
Location: Houston, TX
Join Date: Nov 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 (sold), '06 Ninja 650R

Posts: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by setasai View Post
Same. Matt thinks it has to do with a timing issue for me because mine is coming from the top. He's got a few ideas for me to test out this weekend. I'll keep you all posted.
It is interesting that you are having this issue with the "injectors on top" install. I was assuming some puddling of fuel was occuring since the MAP sensor inlet is towards the bottom of the TB in the "injector on bottom installs.

But you having the problem means the injector pulse is continuing past the point where the cylinder is creating a vacuum in the TB therefore allowing the vacuum in the MAP sensor line to injest fuel when it equalizes to atmospheric.

Advancing the injector pulse timing should fix this. Basically you want a little airflow before and after the injector pulse so no residual fuel remains in the throttle body.
flynjay is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 24th, 2012, 09:18 AM   #15
n4mwd
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
n4mwd's Avatar
 
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by flynjay View Post
It is interesting that you are having this issue with the "injectors on top" install. I was assuming some puddling of fuel was occuring since the MAP sensor inlet is towards the bottom of the TB in the "injector on bottom installs.

But you having the problem means the injector pulse is continuing past the point where the cylinder is creating a vacuum in the TB therefore allowing the vacuum in the MAP sensor line to injest fuel when it equalizes to atmospheric.

Advancing the injector pulse timing should fix this. Basically you want a little airflow before and after the injector pulse so no residual fuel remains in the throttle body.
It may be both, but I think its obvious that puddling is occurring.

Example: If you took a garden hose with a spray nozzle and shot it through a 12" hole in a board from 3 feet away, most of the water stream would go through the hole, but some of the spray is going to land on the board itself and start trickling down. That is what is happening with the throttle bodies.

In both kinds of install, the vacuum port is too close to the injector. But with the upside down installs, it does imply that the injector is drowning in trapped gas. One way to find out (for upside down people only) is to go for a ride, then remove one of the injectors to see if gas runs out.
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog
Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED!
n4mwd is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 24th, 2012, 08:20 PM   #16
setasai
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
setasai's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Location: Detroit, MI
Join Date: Jun 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Green

Posts: A lot.
Did any of you have the issue of when you're riding at 7k+ rpms and then want to brake fast so you pull the clutch in, close the throttle completely, and when the engine drops it just goes straight to zero and stalls? It's as if idle settings didnt exist and fuel gets cut off when i abruptly close the throttle. I'm going to test it out with the fuel decel cutoff higher. I was on stock settings which was 3000rpms for the -30 and then the rest were 2000rpms.
__________________________________________________
2009 Ninja 250R SE Green Sport Touring Style:
ZG ST; Symtec heated grips; RAM GPS w/ mUSB; DIY reshaped seat; DIY Givi E21 Sidecases; 15T sprocket
setasai is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 24th, 2012, 08:26 PM   #17
setasai
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
setasai's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Location: Detroit, MI
Join Date: Jun 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Green

Posts: A lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flynjay View Post
It is interesting that you are having this issue with the "injectors on top" install. I was assuming some puddling of fuel was occuring since the MAP sensor inlet is towards the bottom of the TB in the "injector on bottom installs.

But you having the problem means the injector pulse is continuing past the point where the cylinder is creating a vacuum in the TB therefore allowing the vacuum in the MAP sensor line to injest fuel when it equalizes to atmospheric.

Advancing the injector pulse timing should fix this. Basically you want a little airflow before and after the injector pulse so no residual fuel remains in the throttle body.
Well I have the MAP sensor on the 2nd cylinder because that is what you'd need it to be on if your injectors were on coming from the bottom. So instead of swapping the MAP sensor, it's on the 2nd cylinder. Matt's going to send me new firmware that will put the sensor back on the 1st cylinder which is more accurate and maybe that will fix the timing issue.

I suspect most my issues is because of that swap since nobody else is having stalling issues and Matt cant recreate the gas in the sensor issue either.

We shall find out.

Btw, the emptied fuel filter is working great. No gas got past it. I'll do a few more rides this weekend to confirm. My setup is I used, 2inches of stiff 1/4inch fuel line to go from PORT to FILTER then 1foot of blue fuel line to the MAP sensor. Since my PORT is on top, it stands the FILTER up vertically so gas can drop back down.

Pictures to follow after I jump out of a plane tomorrow morning. Wish me a cushy landing.
__________________________________________________
2009 Ninja 250R SE Green Sport Touring Style:
ZG ST; Symtec heated grips; RAM GPS w/ mUSB; DIY reshaped seat; DIY Givi E21 Sidecases; 15T sprocket
setasai is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 24th, 2012, 08:44 PM   #18
flynjay
ninjette.org guru
 
flynjay's Avatar
 
Name: Jason
Location: Houston, TX
Join Date: Nov 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 (sold), '06 Ninja 650R

Posts: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by setasai View Post
Did any of you have the issue of when you're riding at 7k+ rpms and then want to brake fast so you pull the clutch in, close the throttle completely, and when the engine drops it just goes straight to zero and stalls? It's as if idle settings didnt exist and fuel gets cut off when i abruptly close the throttle. I'm going to test it out with the fuel decel cutoff higher. I was on stock settings which was 3000rpms for the -30 and then the rest were 2000rpms.
I do have this issue as well. When I changed the fuel cutoff to 15000 it completely went away, but the throttle doesn't drop off as fast.

I have set it at 3000 across the board and it works better but if I'm coming off a high throttle setting ~7000+ and pull the clutch it will die. I'm going to increase the setting to 4000 and see how that reacts. If that doesn't correct it enough then I will set it up high again which effectively eliminates the feature.
flynjay is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 24th, 2012, 09:54 PM   #19
setasai
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
setasai's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Location: Detroit, MI
Join Date: Jun 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Green

Posts: A lot.
@flynjay Ok good. At least we eliminated that as a injector on top or on bottom issue and it's a universal issue. Universal issues are easier to confirm and fix.
__________________________________________________
2009 Ninja 250R SE Green Sport Touring Style:
ZG ST; Symtec heated grips; RAM GPS w/ mUSB; DIY reshaped seat; DIY Givi E21 Sidecases; 15T sprocket
setasai is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 26th, 2012, 08:30 AM   #20
n4mwd
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
n4mwd's Avatar
 
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
Thoughts about the fuel filter

I was looking at the injectors and I noticed the little orifices that the gas comes out of. They are really small - 60 microns.

The kit has a pre-filter. Those are typically 150 micron or bigger so the fuel can flow through them by gravity to the fuel pump. I've seen no data as to how fine the kit filter actually is. Based on what I've been reading, a 150 micron particle will clog the injectors.

I've heard some people refer to the different filter types as high pressure and low pressure. That really refers to where they are installed - the high pressure side of the fuel pump or the low pressure side - and not actually that they can handle higher pressures (which all of them can). The EFI "high pressure" filters are typically 10 micron as far as I can tell.

So for those of you that have the kit installed, if you haven't done so already, you might want to look at installing a 10 micron filter after the fuel pump and before the injectors. I looked online and the prices are all over the place, but here is one that looks reasonable. What do you think?
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog
Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED!
n4mwd is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 26th, 2012, 07:42 PM   #21
setasai
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
setasai's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Location: Detroit, MI
Join Date: Jun 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Green

Posts: A lot.
@EMSRacer07, @Scattcatt Little update with my tests.

I tried out some new firmware that Matt sent me and here are the results... summary, very successful.

I installed firmware that put the MAP sensor on the correct cylinder, C1, and a CAL file, and set fuel decel cutoff to 4000rpms at all values.

1) So far I see no gas going to my MAP sensor. Not sure if it'll take longer but at the moment, I didnt see anything.

2) Stalling from 12k rpms straight to zero by pulling in the clutch and closing the throttle did not occur but like you said, rpms dropped slower. Might be the 4000rpm cutoff point.

3) Idle is much much more stable. I had a bucking issue as well and that seemed to disappear as well.

First test ride seems pretty positive. I'll be doing a few more test rides the following week. Lets hope I dont get stranded. Also, I sent Matt logs on my ENTIRE test ride. Hopefully that will help him refine the firmware and CAL settings.
__________________________________________________
2009 Ninja 250R SE Green Sport Touring Style:
ZG ST; Symtec heated grips; RAM GPS w/ mUSB; DIY reshaped seat; DIY Givi E21 Sidecases; 15T sprocket
setasai is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 26th, 2012, 08:18 PM   #22
EMSRacer07
ninjette.org sage
 
EMSRacer07's Avatar
 
Name: Byron
Location: Reno, NV
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): Ninja ex250 1990

Posts: 761
Quote:
Originally Posted by setasai View Post
@EMSRacer07, @Scattcatt Little update with my tests.

I tried out some new firmware that Matt sent me and here are the results... summary, very successful.

I installed firmware that put the MAP sensor on the correct cylinder, C1, and a CAL file, and set fuel decel cutoff to 4000rpms at all values.

1) So far I see no gas going to my MAP sensor. Not sure if it'll take longer but at the moment, I didnt see anything.

2) Stalling from 12k rpms straight to zero by pulling in the clutch and closing the throttle did not occur but like you said, rpms dropped slower. Might be the 4000rpm cutoff point.

3) Idle is much much more stable. I had a bucking issue as well and that seemed to disappear as well.

First test ride seems pretty positive. I'll be doing a few more test rides the following week. Lets hope I dont get stranded. Also, I sent Matt logs on my ENTIRE test ride. Hopefully that will help him refine the firmware and CAL settings.
Thats good news. maybe it will help us out. And i do get a bit of bucking at low rpms and picks right up after like 4k rpms. But overall good news
__________________________________________________
1990 250F. ex300 motor swap, 15/42 gearing, flush side markers, newgen intergrated front fairing, rear integrated turn signals, DB Touring Bubble, zx600 rear shock, Custom DanMoto Exhaust
EMSRacer07 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 26th, 2012, 08:58 PM   #23
Scattcatt
ninjette.org sage
 
Scattcatt's Avatar
 
Name: Zach
Location: Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2003 Honda CBR600RR

Posts: 721
Blog Entries: 1
Glad to hear it! That's excellent news! How did the MAP sensor tubing look after your ride? (How much gasoline accumulated) I took mine out for another hard ride today in the twisties, never let the RPM's get below around 9k and was WOT for the majority of the time. The bike handles wonderfully. The only issue that I've run into is if we all stop for a short while and I key the bike off then turn the bike back on a short time later. It seems the ECU thinks that the bike is starting from a cold start and then runs rough for a little bit. Almost as if it takes the ECU a little while to realize, "Oh, wait. The engine is already hot, no need to do warm up procedures" or whatever. Once it gets over it things run great. One potential hazard and warning to you guys though that I noticed today, I can't confirm the cause of this as it's only happened once but I had an issue of the throttle dragging out after blipping at low RPM after a warm start. As if the throttle was sticking (which very well could be the case as that's happened before. The throttle sync screw has rubbed against the MAP sensor tubing before which I suspected may have been the problem) the small issue went away within a couple of miles. This rough running after a warm start also has made it more inconvenient for me regarding my headlights as well. I've had issues with my headlights cutting out ever since I've had the bike and the problem is most apparent during high speed twistie riding (go figure...) The most effective way for me to turn them back on in the past was to cycle the key quickly. With the fuel injection kit this is a bit trickier now though so I tend to just leave them off when they cut. Not that big of a deal, they come back on over time plus I'm in a group of +-8 riders when we tear up the twisties anyway and I never lead as I always have the smallest bike. My MSF instructor says it's probably the headlight relay as I'm running HID lights (also not something I put on the bike, came with it) which I'm NOT familiar with. I'll check this out during the 15,000 inspection which I'll probably hit in a couple of weeks. I just hit 14,000 today.

Also I apologize if this post doesn't make much sense. I typically edit my posts like 5 or 6 times within the first few minutes of me posting lol... I'm just wiped tonight. I'll get to it later
__________________________________________________
ATGATT
Scattcatt is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 26th, 2012, 09:11 PM   #24
setasai
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
setasai's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Location: Detroit, MI
Join Date: Jun 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Green

Posts: A lot.
No gasoline in the tube after the ride at all. I will go for a longer ride in the next few days to confirm but I was basically doing 40mph circles around my neighborhood and stopping hard at stop signs and accelerating as fast as I thought reasonable.

Weird thing about the startup. I'll have to look into that. How long do you wait for the pump to initialize before you hit the starter? It's hard to hear after I have my gear on so I dont actually know when it stops. I guess I could make it a habit to wait 3 seconds everytime.

Maybe there's something loose with your HID's or possibly a power issue?
__________________________________________________
2009 Ninja 250R SE Green Sport Touring Style:
ZG ST; Symtec heated grips; RAM GPS w/ mUSB; DIY reshaped seat; DIY Givi E21 Sidecases; 15T sprocket
setasai is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 26th, 2012, 11:26 PM   #25
Scattcatt
ninjette.org sage
 
Scattcatt's Avatar
 
Name: Zach
Location: Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2003 Honda CBR600RR

Posts: 721
Blog Entries: 1
Great that you have no gas in the MAP line! I have very little as well, over the past 1200 miles or so I've only gotten a tiny puddle in the lines, not even enough to bother draining.

As far as the amount of time I wait I totally vary it. Sometimes it's a nearly instantaneous key-on and start, other times I key on and end up waiting for well over a full minute before I actually crank the engine. I'll have to keep note of this, if anything it would make sense if my instant starts cause the rough initial riding.

My MSF instructor thinks the problem with the HID's is a power one for sure. I've personally never dealt with this relay that he's talking about though. Only one I've modified is for the blinkers after I installed LEDs on everything. It's a truly strange problem. I rarely have a problem on streets commuting to and from class. They cut at high speeds and high RPMs after hitting a bump. So it's shock related but it doesn't make sense if it was a wire that disconnected or something because they ALWAYS instantly come right back on after cycling the key.
__________________________________________________
ATGATT
Scattcatt is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 27th, 2012, 01:24 AM   #26
setasai
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
setasai's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Location: Detroit, MI
Join Date: Jun 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Green

Posts: A lot.
That is weird. Cutting out at high speeds and bumps indicates a mechanical failure but the fact that you can bring them back every time by cycling the key means its a software issue. Maybe the ballasts are being funky (no better word to describe something I'm not sure of). Like the high speeds and bumps cause a small short or surge that trips an electronic safety and then the key cycle is like a form of reset cycle.

FYI about the MAP sensor, the empty fuel filter works well as a chamber to keep the gas at bay. If you find the puddle shifts around up and down the tube, it might be worthwhile putting one of these in the line angled so that gas can never get past it. Just another safety. It's not a big deal but being stranded because of a wet sensor stinks since it takes hours for it to dry.
__________________________________________________
2009 Ninja 250R SE Green Sport Touring Style:
ZG ST; Symtec heated grips; RAM GPS w/ mUSB; DIY reshaped seat; DIY Givi E21 Sidecases; 15T sprocket
setasai is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 27th, 2012, 01:38 AM   #27
Scattcatt
ninjette.org sage
 
Scattcatt's Avatar
 
Name: Zach
Location: Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2003 Honda CBR600RR

Posts: 721
Blog Entries: 1
I'll let you know what's up if I ever figure out the mystery behind my headlights. Anyway a fuel bubble! That's exactly the term I was trying to think of earlier... I just was thinking way too technical. Anyway, line to the map sensor hasn't even collected enough fuel to come remotely close to forming a bubble. That's why I haven't been too concerned about it. If it ever does form a bubble though, then for sure, I'll add in a filter or something. I have a couple laying around still from the carbs.
__________________________________________________
ATGATT
Scattcatt is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 28th, 2012, 08:29 PM   #28
setasai
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
setasai's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Location: Detroit, MI
Join Date: Jun 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Green

Posts: A lot.
Good good. Confirmation that with my current setup, there is zero gas getting into the MAP sensor tubing. I can probably shorten mine soon.

I am having a different issue though. After closing the throttle all the way from almost WOT, RPM drops too slowly.

I think I am also going to be remaking the throttle pulley and throttle cable bracket at some point to incorporate the decel cable. I'll let you all know if I come up with something that works and is easy to fabricate.
__________________________________________________
2009 Ninja 250R SE Green Sport Touring Style:
ZG ST; Symtec heated grips; RAM GPS w/ mUSB; DIY reshaped seat; DIY Givi E21 Sidecases; 15T sprocket
setasai is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 28th, 2012, 09:08 PM   #29
EMSRacer07
ninjette.org sage
 
EMSRacer07's Avatar
 
Name: Byron
Location: Reno, NV
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): Ninja ex250 1990

Posts: 761
Quote:
Originally Posted by setasai View Post
Good good. Confirmation that with my current setup, there is zero gas getting into the MAP sensor tubing. I can probably shorten mine soon.

I am having a different issue though. After closing the throttle all the way from almost WOT, RPM drops too slowly.

I think I am also going to be remaking the throttle pulley and throttle cable bracket at some point to incorporate the decel cable. I'll let you all know if I come up with something that works and is easy to fabricate.
what did u set ur decel fuel cut off at?
__________________________________________________
1990 250F. ex300 motor swap, 15/42 gearing, flush side markers, newgen intergrated front fairing, rear integrated turn signals, DB Touring Bubble, zx600 rear shock, Custom DanMoto Exhaust
EMSRacer07 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 28th, 2012, 09:33 PM   #30
n4mwd
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
n4mwd's Avatar
 
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scattcatt View Post
I'll let you know what's up if I ever figure out the mystery behind my headlights.
The lights should not come on when the bike is not running. If they do, then someone has been messing with the wiring. Normally, power from the alternator trips an electrically latching relay to make the lights come on only after starting. In short, your problem is probably a bad headlight relay or a bad diode in the latching circuit. At least that's how it works with a pregen.

Here's a link to other people with similar problems.
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog
Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED!
n4mwd is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 28th, 2012, 11:01 PM   #31
setasai
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
setasai's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Location: Detroit, MI
Join Date: Jun 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Green

Posts: A lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EMSRacer07 View Post
what did u set ur decel fuel cut off at?
Elaboration:

Fuel decel cutoff set at 4k symptoms are as follows: Blipping causes bogging instead of instant rise in rpms for rev matching (major issue). Opening throttle to maintain at any RPMs causes a slow decrease of RPMs back to idle. No stalling at stoplights.

Fuel decel cutoff set at 2k (stock) symptoms are as follows: Stalling at stop lights for sure. Under 4k rpms drop past idle and comes close to stalling. Over 4k rpms are slow to return to idle. Blipping still causes bogging instead of instant rise in rpms for rev matching.

Weird. Now that I have fixed the MAP issue, it's strange that I have actual performance issues. I wonder what is the cause of this. Hopefully, Matt can figure it out. I sent him logs for both settings.
__________________________________________________
2009 Ninja 250R SE Green Sport Touring Style:
ZG ST; Symtec heated grips; RAM GPS w/ mUSB; DIY reshaped seat; DIY Givi E21 Sidecases; 15T sprocket
setasai is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 29th, 2012, 11:50 AM   #32
EMSRacer07
ninjette.org sage
 
EMSRacer07's Avatar
 
Name: Byron
Location: Reno, NV
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): Ninja ex250 1990

Posts: 761
Quote:
Originally Posted by setasai View Post
Elaboration:

Fuel decel cutoff set at 4k symptoms are as follows: Blipping causes bogging instead of instant rise in rpms for rev matching (major issue). Opening throttle to maintain at any RPMs causes a slow decrease of RPMs back to idle. No stalling at stoplights.

Fuel decel cutoff set at 2k (stock) symptoms are as follows: Stalling at stop lights for sure. Under 4k rpms drop past idle and comes close to stalling. Over 4k rpms are slow to return to idle. Blipping still causes bogging instead of instant rise in rpms for rev matching.

Weird. Now that I have fixed the MAP issue, it's strange that I have actual performance issues. I wonder what is the cause of this. Hopefully, Matt can figure it out. I sent him logs for both settings.
From what i noticed setting mine at 3k for all the settings that when i drop rpms from up high it will catch at 3k or little less bc thats when it flows fuel again. Its possible u might be running a bit rich possibly why its hanging up on u. But i could only see taht for ppl that set the fuel decel cutoff super high like scattcat did.

Bogging sounds like a MAP sensor issue or maybe running rich or lean. Did u download the map that Matt sent about the fuel enrichment factor at opening the throttle fast? I had that issue but that map he sent a while back fixed it for the most part.

I get a bit of bogging when i pull the throttle but i havent put anything between the tb and MAP sensor like u guys yet. I jsut put a little filter in last night and im going to see how that works today. Ill let u guys know.
__________________________________________________
1990 250F. ex300 motor swap, 15/42 gearing, flush side markers, newgen intergrated front fairing, rear integrated turn signals, DB Touring Bubble, zx600 rear shock, Custom DanMoto Exhaust
EMSRacer07 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 29th, 2012, 01:53 PM   #33
n4mwd
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
n4mwd's Avatar
 
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
Where are you guys getting all these new maps. I checked my inbox and there was nothing from matt there.
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog
Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED!
n4mwd is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 29th, 2012, 05:55 PM   #34
setasai
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
setasai's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Location: Detroit, MI
Join Date: Jun 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Green

Posts: A lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EMSRacer07 View Post
From what i noticed setting mine at 3k for all the settings that when i drop rpms from up high it will catch at 3k or little less bc thats when it flows fuel again. Its possible u might be running a bit rich possibly why its hanging up on u. But i could only see taht for ppl that set the fuel decel cutoff super high like scattcat did.

Bogging sounds like a MAP sensor issue or maybe running rich or lean. Did u download the map that Matt sent about the fuel enrichment factor at opening the throttle fast? I had that issue but that map he sent a while back fixed it for the most part.

I get a bit of bogging when i pull the throttle but i havent put anything between the tb and MAP sensor like u guys yet. I jsut put a little filter in last night and im going to see how that works today. Ill let u guys know.
Hmmm I guess that's possible with the MAP sensor. Maybe I'll shorten it now that I dont have the gas issue.

So you dont have a blipping issue? Like when you blip it totally feels like it did in carbs? It's no joke that when I blip fast, it just goes putt putt putt... not vroom vroom... haha

I'll ask Matt about it and hopefully he has an idea.

@n4mwd Matt sends out new cal files depending on the setup and the issue. Some issues are specific to our setup. Like for example, since i'm the only one with MAP sensor on cylinder 1 AND the injectors on top, he's not going to send it out to everybody.
__________________________________________________
2009 Ninja 250R SE Green Sport Touring Style:
ZG ST; Symtec heated grips; RAM GPS w/ mUSB; DIY reshaped seat; DIY Givi E21 Sidecases; 15T sprocket
setasai is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 29th, 2012, 06:29 PM   #35
n4mwd
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
n4mwd's Avatar
 
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by setasai View Post
@n4mwd Matt sends out new cal files depending on the setup and the issue. Some issues are specific to our setup. Like for example, since i'm the only one with MAP sensor on cylinder 1 AND the injectors on top, he's not going to send it out to everybody.
I have the injectors on top version and there is only one MAP port on cylinder #1.
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog
Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED!
n4mwd is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 29th, 2012, 06:35 PM   #36
setasai
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
setasai's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Location: Detroit, MI
Join Date: Jun 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Green

Posts: A lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by n4mwd View Post
I have the injectors on top version and there is only one MAP port on cylinder #1.
That's good. That setup works better anyways. I have a throttlebody with ports for MAP sensor on either cylinder. This way I could either use it with injectors on top or bottom. My first throttlebody that was crooked had only one port. The replacement that Matt sent me later had two.

If you end up installing it, ask Matt to see if there is a necessity of an updated Cal file.

@EMSRacer07 Matt said my MAP has the same fuel enrichment settings as everybody elses. So this isnt the issue.
__________________________________________________
2009 Ninja 250R SE Green Sport Touring Style:
ZG ST; Symtec heated grips; RAM GPS w/ mUSB; DIY reshaped seat; DIY Givi E21 Sidecases; 15T sprocket
setasai is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 29th, 2012, 09:41 PM   #37
n4mwd
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
n4mwd's Avatar
 
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by setasai View Post
If you end up installing it, ask Matt to see if there is a necessity of an updated Cal file.

@EMSRacer07 Matt said my MAP has the same fuel enrichment settings as everybody elses. So this isnt the issue.
The last file I got was on Jan 29 called "NA_Ninja250cc_SE2B1361_4T2C2IG-2.0_Cr898_10k_misfire_fix.cal". I think I'm out of date.

So was your new TB straight or crooked like the original? Mine is crooked too and that's why my fuel rails would not fit. But my understanding is that the crooked ones are the newer ones.
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog
Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED!
n4mwd is offline   Reply With Quote


Old February 29th, 2012, 11:07 PM   #38
setasai
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
setasai's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Location: Detroit, MI
Join Date: Jun 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Green

Posts: A lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by n4mwd View Post
The last file I got was on Jan 29 called "NA_Ninja250cc_SE2B1361_4T2C2IG-2.0_Cr898_10k_misfire_fix.cal". I think I'm out of date.

So was your new TB straight or crooked like the original? Mine is crooked too and that's why my fuel rails would not fit. But my understanding is that the crooked ones are the newer ones.
You might be one cal file behind. Only because I had a few issues he wanted me to test on the new cal file. Our cal files are not the same as the rest of them because of the injectors on top firmware. So at the moment I should be the only one with this type of beta test cal file.

My new TB wasnt bad. It wasnt perfect but it was definitely much better than the original. I dont think there is much of a way to go around this just because of the source of the TB.
__________________________________________________
2009 Ninja 250R SE Green Sport Touring Style:
ZG ST; Symtec heated grips; RAM GPS w/ mUSB; DIY reshaped seat; DIY Givi E21 Sidecases; 15T sprocket
setasai is offline   Reply With Quote


Old March 2nd, 2012, 06:21 AM   #39
n4mwd
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
n4mwd's Avatar
 
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by setasai View Post
You might be one cal file behind. Only because I had a few issues he wanted me to test on the new cal file. Our cal files are not the same as the rest of them because of the injectors on top firmware. So at the moment I should be the only one with this type of beta test cal file.

My new TB wasnt bad. It wasnt perfect but it was definitely much better than the original. I dont think there is much of a way to go around this just because of the source of the TB.

Did you ever install your O2 sensors?

I guess he is waiting to get the bugs out of your CAL file before he sends it to everyone.

In my case, the OEM throttle bodies are in short supply at the moment so it looks like I might have to make another attempt at getting the fuel rail working on mine. Maybe in a month or two if I don't find an OEM or sell the kit first.
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog
Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED!
n4mwd is offline   Reply With Quote


Old March 2nd, 2012, 11:05 AM   #40
setasai
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
setasai's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Location: Detroit, MI
Join Date: Jun 2010

Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Green

Posts: A lot.
Possibly. I do have the O2 sensors installed. He said most of my issues could possibly be a autotune/time thing and work itself out. I am actually going to spend the day trying to make a new pulley and cable bracket. I want to use the decel cable. It's just safer and faster to have the decel cable installed.

I also want to swap out the idle setting screw to a nice allen type screw. It's this dumb star pattern and Matt says the screw comes with the throttle body when manufactured so he's not even sure what the thread specs are on it.
__________________________________________________
2009 Ninja 250R SE Green Sport Touring Style:
ZG ST; Symtec heated grips; RAM GPS w/ mUSB; DIY reshaped seat; DIY Givi E21 Sidecases; 15T sprocket
setasai is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ecotrons tech questions. bigbadbob 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 1 April 17th, 2015 10:50 AM
Ecotrons map swarfman64 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 2 January 15th, 2015 06:09 AM
WTB:Ecotrons petcock crimsondragon Items Wanted 2 September 21st, 2014 06:54 AM
Ecotrons kit garth285 Items Wanted 0 June 17th, 2014 05:09 PM
Ecotrons Gen2 FI Kit Install Terminal 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 85 October 15th, 2012 02:02 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Motorcycle Safety Foundation

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:06 AM.


Website uptime monitoring Host-tracker.com
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Except where otherwise noted, all site contents are © Copyright 2022 ninjette.org, All rights reserved.