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Old October 7th, 2017, 05:16 PM   #41
Ram Jet
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For car tires it's the same equipment I use for motorcycle tires, two irons and my bead breaker. Same for the tractor tires. The biggest pain with the tractor tires is the 35 gallons of antifreeze to take out and put back in. You've seen my slide hammer bead breaker, haven't you?
Man, you cats in the Carolinas celebrate Xmas early! Up here they used to use calcium and water to fill the rear tires. You use real live anti freeze - the engine coolant type? Pretty expensive I would say.

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Old October 7th, 2017, 05:37 PM   #42
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No, I think it's alcohol and water. I just take it out and put it back in. A previous owner bought the stuff. I got the slide hammer bead breaker in 2011, after the local tire guy loaned me his to do the tractor tire. After using it once, I knew I had to have one of my own.

I hope the folks you knew used calcium chloride and not calcium! The problem with using calcium chloride is it's very corrosive, so a small leak will rust through a rim before long.
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Old October 7th, 2017, 05:55 PM   #43
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No, I think it's alcohol and water. I just take it out and put it back in. A previous owner bought the stuff. I got the slide hammer bead breaker in 2011, after the local tire guy loaned me his to do the tractor tire. After using it once, I knew I had to have one of my own.

I hope the folks you knew used calcium chloride and not calcium! The problem with using calcium chloride is it's very corrosive, so a small leak will rust through a rim before long.
I have no idea what kind of calcium they used I only heard them talk about it. Alcohol? That's a hell of a waste of good moonshine.

I know about the type of calcium they used on 1/4 mile dirt tracks to keep down the dust. The stuff used to corrode the hell out of the magnesium wheels on my dad's V-8 Ford powered midget race car.

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Old October 7th, 2017, 08:06 PM   #44
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Calcium is a metal that reacts violently when exposed to water.
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Old October 8th, 2017, 07:36 AM   #45
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Thanks, I didn't hear him say Gorilla tape. Yes, I hope it's not a spoof. I wish he had an easy way to get the old tire OFF. Well, if it doesn't work I'm only out a roll of Gorilla tape - I use Dawn anyway.

Bill
Easy way to get the old tire off: The cable-tie method is similar to the Gorilla tape method, except you can use it to get the tire off as well. After breaking the bead, thread the cable tie between the tire and rim, pull it tight and take the tire off. If this is not in one of the videos in this thread, google on YouTube. I think I'm going to try it.
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Old October 8th, 2017, 07:40 AM   #46
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Since I live alone an 8" "C" clamp is my friend. The first bead isn't too hard but even though I have rim protectors the second bead is a bee-ach. I worry about mucking-up the rim and having to install a tube.

Bill
I saw a C-Clamp video where a piece of wood was on one side of the RIM, and two clamps were used (although I think he only actually tightened up one of them. Then you could just flip the rim and tire over and do it the same way. If the video isn't on this thread, google on YouTube.
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Old October 8th, 2017, 08:00 AM   #47
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Another question for all of you: If I put a different back tire on the back, do I need to have the same type tire on the front?

(The wear indicators say I need a new back tire, while the front tire looks relatively new. The old tires are Dunlop K630; I'm thinking about going to Shinko SR740,741.)
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Old October 8th, 2017, 09:13 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by isuoboe View Post
Another question for all of you: If I put a different back tire on the back, do I need to have the same type tire on the front?

(The wear indicators say I need a new back tire, while the front tire looks relatively new. The old tires are Dunlop K630; I'm thinking about going to Shinko SR740,741.)
Not necessarily, but you need to think about it a bit and don't go overboard with the mismatch. I have a front Bridgestone BT45 on my Guzzi, but am still wearing out the rear Avon AM26 Roadrider. I just took a round trip on VA route 16, "The Back of the Dragon" and no odd handling traits showed up. If there were any, that's where they would have surfaced.
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Old October 8th, 2017, 07:52 PM   #49
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Another question for all of you: If I put a different back tire on the back, do I need to have the same type tire on the front?

(The wear indicators say I need a new back tire, while the front tire looks relatively new. The old tires are Dunlop K630; I'm thinking about going to Shinko SR740,741.)
No need for same tyre model, but they should be of similar construction and grip. So both should be bias-ply or both radials. And similar target for riding type: touring, dual-sport, sport-riding, track DOT, race-slicks, etc.

The Dunlop K630 are basic OEM tyres, and Shinko SR740/741 should be similar enough to use together. New tyre will always be grippier than old one, even of same model. Has to do with how thick rubber is on tread. Thicker layer resists hysteresis forces better internally and generates higher slip-angles.

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Old October 13th, 2017, 07:17 AM   #50
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I changed my first rear tire a month ago and it was a bear (due to inexperience no doubt), but if you're going to do it yourself, I have a few suggestions:

1.) Do not, under any circumstances, try to work your tire off of the rim while it rests on the brake disc. The disc may look resilient but like all metals, it can deform if you apply enough stress to it. Deformations are most likely to occur at the splines, which connect the brake contact area to the mounting points. Put the tire on a set of 2x4s to get some clearance between the disc and the ground. If you are changing a tire for the first time on a newly-purchased used bike, its probably a good idea to check your brake disc once the tire is reinstalled as the prior owner may have made this mistake. Spin the tire and lightly apply the rear brake. If you feel the brake lever "flutter" up and down as the tire spins, your brake disc is garbage and you'll need to replace it (eBay is your friend here but make sure you ask the seller to measure the contact area width with a set of calipers before purchasing. It should be between 4.7 and 5.1mm).

2.) Invest in a heavy-duty adjustable clamp and a set of tire irons. The clamp should be the kind that has a trigger-pull tightening mechanism (I have a Dewalt and it works wonders). To break a bead, place the ends of the clamp just shy of the rim (you don't want to clamp down on the rim at all) and tighten it as much as you can. Then take a tire iron and place one about 3 inches to the right of the clamp with the spoon pointing up. Then take another, spoon pointed down, and place it in between the clamp and the tire iron you just placed. Work it in between the rubber of the tire and the rim. This may take several tries. Once you do that, push down on the first tire iron you placed and pull up on the second. If you did it right, the bead should break with little effort.

3.) Invest in some cheapo knee pads from Walmart or a sporting goods store. When you put the tire back on, you'll need to "walk" you're knees around the tire to keep it on the rim. Even while wearing heavy denim, The treads of the tire will dig into your knees, which can be quite painful. Put knee pads on before performing this step.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 08:03 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LR44 View Post
I changed my first rear tire a month ago and it was a bear (due to inexperience no doubt), but if you're going to do it yourself, I have a few suggestions:

1.) Do not, under any circumstances, try to work your tire off of the rim while it rests on the brake disc. The disc may look resilient but like all metals, it can deform if you apply enough stress to it. Deformations are most likely to occur at the splines, which connect the brake contact area to the mounting points. Put the tire on a set of 2x4s to get some clearance between the disc and the ground. If you are changing a tire for the first time on a newly-purchased used bike, its probably a good idea to check your brake disc once the tire is reinstalled as the prior owner may have made this mistake. Spin the tire and lightly apply the rear brake. If you feel the brake lever "flutter" up and down as the tire spins, your brake disc is garbage and you'll need to replace it (eBay is your friend here but make sure you ask the seller to measure the contact area width with a set of calipers before purchasing. It should be between 4.7 and 5.1mm).

2.) Invest in a heavy-duty adjustable clamp and a set of tire irons. The clamp should be the kind that has a trigger-pull tightening mechanism (I have a Dewalt and it works wonders). To break a bead, place the ends of the clamp just shy of the rim (you don't want to clamp down on the rim at all) and tighten it as much as you can. Then take a tire iron and place one about 3 inches to the right of the clamp with the spoon pointing up. Then take another, spoon pointed down, and place it in between the clamp and the tire iron you just placed. Work it in between the rubber of the tire and the rim. This may take several tries. Once you do that, push down on the first tire iron you placed and pull up on the second. If you did it right, the bead should break with little effort.

3.) Invest in some cheapo knee pads from Walmart or a sporting goods store. When you put the tire back on, you'll need to "walk" you're knees around the tire to keep it on the rim. Even while wearing heavy denim, The treads of the tire will dig into your knees, which can be quite painful. Put knee pads on before performing this step.
Great tips, thanks. 2X4s will work. I used a tire carcass to set my tire and wheel on. You are correct about being careful with the brake disc. I'll try your trick with the two tire irons next time. Jeepers I hate mounting tires as much as a valve adjustment on the pre-gen Ninja!

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Old October 13th, 2017, 08:14 AM   #52
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Great tips, thanks. 2X4s will work. I used a tire carcass to set my tire and wheel on. You are correct about being careful with the brake disc. I'll try your trick with the two tire irons next time. Jeepers I hate mounting tires as much as a valve adjustment on the pre-gen Ninja!

Bill
No truer words have been written.

By the way, the MC Garage has a great video on Youtube about how to reinstall a tire but Ari doesn't elevate the brake disc when he does it. Huge mistake.
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Old November 5th, 2017, 11:13 PM   #53
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Smile Success!

I started this thread when I was stilled deciding whether or not to mount my own tires. I have succeeded in doing it myself. I'm sharing a lot of things here, hoping to help other newbies. (I know, there is nothing earth shattering here!) I'll share what I consider the most important things I learned first, so you don't have to read it all to get something out of it. If you haven't seen the same videos or read the same posts I have, some of this may seem pretty obtuse, so please don't hesitate to ask for any clarification.

The most important things to me, learned from lots of research including all the helpful input from ninjette members:
1. Use a HAIR DRYER on low blowing inside the new tire to soften it up. (It's too cold here now to get any benefit from sitting in the sun. Taking the old tire off wasn't that big a deal.)

2. Use PIECES OF A MILK JUG AS RIM PROTECTORS. On my pregen rims, this material is fine for preventing scratching the rims up, and it's really easy to slip through the smallest gap between tire and rim. In addition, the 4 pieces I got from cutting up the 4 corners of a 1/2 gal. jug, is way better than only having the 2 "real" rim protectors I got in a set.

3. I bought TIRE LUBE CONCENTRATE at Theisen's for $3.49. It makes a gallon, enough for my whole life. (I know everyone uses dish soap, but others say the grease fighting ingredients are bad for rubber.)


More details. I decided to stick with the tires "made for this bike" (2006 ninja 250), Dunlop K630's which I was replacing. Therefore, it was easy enough to leave the old front tire on with lots of tread left. Other tires I was looking at are more sport bike design which isn't necessary for me; I will never ride on a track and I occasionally ride on gravel (lots of potential for that with my exploring around central Iowa).

One person mentioned that replacing the Dunlops with Shinkos got rid of the grooved pavement issues. Actually, I had not had that issue for a while. Now with the new rear tire I have it again. Maybe the combination of a tread groove around the middle of the tire, and the more flexible, thicker, new tread creates the squirreliness. I decided to live with it for the limited amount of grooved pavement riding I do.

I was prepared to try any and all tricks (zip ties, gorilla tape, etc.), but I thought I'd like to try my hand at conventional "spoon" mounting. I bought a set of 3 spoons and 2 rim protectors for about $15 on Ebay. Some reviews told of potential bending problems with these spoons; I don't think that would ever be a problem with these tires.

Someone in this thread mentioned that tires on the small ninjas are harder to mount than bigger tires. Having never mounted bigger tires, I can't speak to that, but having viewed videos of other people mounting a variety of tires, I am convinced that different tires are very different to mount. The fact that the tire I was mounting has beads very close together, actually makes it harder to push on the first bead on, the way some did in the videos using no spoons at all.

BREAKING THE BEAD: I used a bench vise to break the first bead. It worked fine except I chose to use a pipe on the vise handle as it got harder to turn! I broke the second bead with a C-clamp: I used a 2x4 on the rim under the tire with the clamp on it and then screwed the clamp down next to the rim on the top bead that that was still sealed.

REMOVING THE OLD TIRE: Heeding warnings about damage to the brake disc, I chose to take it off. I put 2 2x4's under the wheel. Removal of the old tire was accomplished easily with spoons on the first bead. The second bead was removed with 2 spoons inserted about a foot apart to start the bead over the rim, then, with the rim vertical, I put my weight on the part of the tire that was over the rim until the whole thing came off.

INSTALLING THE NEW TIRE: I used spoons and moderate lube on both beads. The multiple milk jug rim protectors, mentioned at the beginning of this post, made a huge difference on this. I had failed on my first try without them.

SEALING THE BEAD: At first I had not "bounced" the tire enough to spread the beads. I attached a bicycle pump and had no seal. I bounced it some more (turning the tire to hit all around it) and then got pressure. I think I could have gotten the bicycle pump to work. (I pump my bicycle tires to around 130 lbs. with it.) However, as I pumped, starting around 20 lb., the pressure gauge wasn't moving. I didn't feeling like working as hard as it looked like would be necessary so I took the tire/wheel to a gas station with a real compressor (not the typical low pressure ones so common now days). The bead sealed fairly quickly; the pressure measured only about 44 lb. once this was accomplished.

TIRE BALANCING: I used the jack stands method with the wheel on the axle between the jack stands. As per someones suggestion, I found the heavy place on the wheel WITHOUT THE TIRE. That point is where I put the yellow circle on the tire which normally would go by the valve. (Some people will now think I didn't know what that yellow circle was for) I don't know if this really makes any difference. I ended up with the same amount of weight as the previous tire (4 --1/4 oz stick-on black weights which look very unobtrusive on the black wheels).

VALVE: I used an angle valve which I hope will make it much easier to check and fill the rear tire.

ALIGNMENT: before I took the wheel off, I checked the alignment using the string method. It was way off. The string ran along one side of the front tire, and was over an inch away from the other side. When I put the wheel back on after the tire change, I started by lining up the marks on the chain adjusters. I also had one of the motionpro chain alignment tools that fastens to the sprocket. This tool is a great idea, but I see 2 problems: 1. I had a hard time sighting along the bar to see if it was really lined up with the chain (perhaps a trifocal-eye issue). 2. The bar isn't nearly long enough; a slight variation in the length of the bar would result in a huge variation at the front of the front wheel. Proceeding from here to the string method, I could see I had more work to do. This proved quite tedious; it would have been much easier if I'd had a little brother, grandson, etc. around at the time to help me move the strings! I ended up with what must be a pretty good alignment. However I have some questions. 1. What difference does it make? (after all, my alignment was way off before I started, and I thought the previous tire mounting must have had good alignment since I had no wobble when I released the handle bars; and the bike seemed to handle fine.) 2. The string alignment is done on the tire, not the rim as auto alignment is done. If you spin the wheel, the outside edge of the tire does show movement, while the rim is pretty darn steady! 3. my tires don't show weird wear. I got about 7,500 miles out of the back tire which people seem to think is pretty good, and the front tire has significant tread left to the wear indicators. 4. Do dealers actually use the marks on the chain adjusters and swing arm? If so, and the "alignment" they achieve is OK, then it DOESN'T REALLY MATTER. I say this because the marks are too far apart for precise measurements, and really, don't they just plain look crude? Here's where my marks end up when the string method shows the alignment is correct: (I would not say the two sides look the the same! Click the pictures to enlarge them.)

IMG_7287.jpg
IMG_7289.jpg

CLEANING AND ADJUSTING THE CHAIN: During the current tire change, while the wheel was off, I used the opportunity to soak the chain, a section at a time, in kerosene. Otherwise--DUH--in case anyone else is as dumb as I've been for 5 years of chain cleaning and lubing on the Ninja--Take the chain guard off to give great visual and reachable access to the chain! The picture below shows 1. the wash bottle (bought at the chem store at the local university) I use to put Kerosene on the chain for cleaning without spraying all over everything; 2. My gauge (2 paint stirring strips and a mini C clamp) I use to measure chain slack. I adjust the length of the gadget so when resting on the ground, the end of it is even with the top of the chain when pushed up; if adjusted properly, the bottom reaches between the 35 and 40 mm marks.

IMG_7283.jpg
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Old November 6th, 2017, 08:14 AM   #54
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Congratulations! You'll find that it gets much easier as you do more and more sets of tires. My very first set of tires (almost ten years ago) was changed by a shop. I've since been doing every other set by hand. It typically takes about an hour at this point to remove both wheels, change tires, and reinstall / adjust the chain.

A useful skill you may want to learn is how to break the bead of a tire with tire irons. Much more useful to those who ride off road, as you don't always have a good way to break a bead on the road.... But also very useful if you have a stubborn bead on an old tire. (Has saved me before.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSOFqH3Wk9Y
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Old November 6th, 2017, 08:24 AM   #55
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In my experience, it helps quite a bit to put some good tire mounting lube where you're working on breaking the bead. As you're working, it gets into the tire-rim interface. Even if it doesn't get everywhere, it reduces the fight.
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Old November 6th, 2017, 08:25 AM   #56
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Congratulations! You'll find that it gets much easier as you do more and more sets of tires. My very first set of tires (almost ten years ago) was changed by a shop. I've since been doing every other set by hand. It typically takes about an hour at this point to remove both wheels, change tires, and reinstall / adjust the chain.

A useful skill you may want to learn is how to break the bead of a tire with tire irons. Much more useful to those who ride off road, as you don't always have a good way to break a bead on the road.... But also very useful if you have a stubborn bead on an old tire. (Has saved me before.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSOFqH3Wk9Y
I find an 8" "C" clamp helps a-lot. Also, I wouldn't set the tire and brake disc on the rug. I always use the new replacement tire to place underneath the tire/wheel I'm working on.

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Old November 6th, 2017, 08:53 AM   #57
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Hey, good job on your 1st tyre change!!

Yeah, I tried it with bicycle-pump too my first time. Just couldn’t get air in fast enough to force that last section of bead to seal. So I ended up using ratcheting strap down centre of tread to squeeze beads apart.
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Old November 14th, 2017, 06:41 AM   #58
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I find an 8" "C" clamp helps a-lot. Also, I wouldn't set the tire and brake disc on the rug. I always use the new replacement tire to place underneath the tire/wheel I'm working on.

Bill
Oh for sure. (The person in that video is not me.) Putting all that weight on the rotor like the guy is doing in that video is certain to bend the rotor. Why wasn't he just working on the other side? You're not putting irons near the rotor, so who cares? Who knows what he was thinking...

Regardless, it's a sound tactic to break a bead when other options have failed, or when you have *just* spoons available.
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Old November 14th, 2017, 08:43 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
Congratulations! You'll find that it gets much easier as you do more and more sets of tires. My very first set of tires (almost ten years ago) was changed by a shop. I've since been doing every other set by hand. It typically takes about an hour at this point to remove both wheels, change tires, and reinstall / adjust the chain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSOFqH3Wk9Y
I know it will be easier. I'll never get near as fast as you describe. (I'm retired and this is my fun so no hurry.) I can't wait for my front tire to wear out!
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Old November 14th, 2017, 11:57 AM   #60
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I know it will be easier. I'll never get near as fast as you describe. (I'm retired and this is my fun so no hurry.) I can't wait for my front tire to wear out!
You may not have to wait. The age of a tire can be more important than the amount of thread it has.

Check the date - it's 4 numbers in an oval on the sidewall like "2408". The first two numbers are week (24th week) the second are the last digits of the year (2008).

Most people tend to agree that 5 years is about as long as you want to run a cycle tire. I've replaced tires before that. The rubber will slowly lose its ability to provide traction over time. Any signs of crack inside the tread or on the sidewall and it's past due.
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