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Old November 9th, 2017, 03:36 PM   #41
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Except this is a 1996 Suzuki GS500E.
Ha! So it is!

Well, maybe they do too...
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Old November 9th, 2017, 06:26 PM   #42
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Excessive internal wear, probably. Possibly related to low oil. You might try and see if you can get a rough idea of connecting rod bearing clearance. If you can get a dial indicator on the piston through the spark plug hole, and a degree wheel on the crank, you can see how much you can turn the crank back and forth without moving the piston. If you do it around top dead center, that number can be converted into bearing slop. If you don't have those tools, you can still put something like a wood dowel in the plug hole and rest it on the piston, and turn the crank back and forth to feel for slop. There should be precious little, like hard to tell if there is any at all.
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Old November 9th, 2017, 06:33 PM   #43
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There is significant metal Dust in the oil filter, as well as, bronze flakes in the oil. What does that mean?

Here’s the video
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nRLPcKki1Fk
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Old November 9th, 2017, 06:42 PM   #44
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Quote:
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You can find out by swapping the coils.
I will try this tmrw noon because it’s too late right now(old neighbors).

I will also check to see if there’s is any bearing slop.
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Old November 9th, 2017, 07:28 PM   #45
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STOP!!! DO NOT RUN THE ENGINE!!! It may already be done for anyway, but at least take off the oil-pan and inspect the rod-bearings.

You've worn through rod and/or crank bearings and into their steel backings!!!


Your rod-bearings may look like this:



And your rod-journals may look like this!!!


Depending upon how badly scored rod-journal is, you may be able to get away with some polishing and rebuilding. May even need to grind down a little and use next size tighter bearing. And rod-end may need resizing and polishing too. All depends upon how much damage has been done.

AGAIN, DO NOT RUN ENGINE UNTIL YOU TAKE APART BOTTOM END AND TAKE A LOOK!!!
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Old November 9th, 2017, 08:04 PM   #46
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As much as he's run it so far, it's not going to hurt to swap coils and run it for ten seconds to see if there's a change, but I agree that it's most likely that there's internal damage, and hoping it's just a bad coil is grasping at straws.
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Old November 9th, 2017, 08:42 PM   #47
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....oh god
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Old November 9th, 2017, 08:47 PM   #48
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Ok....I can do this....I believe...she’s hurting but I will fix her up
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Old November 9th, 2017, 08:47 PM   #49
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First things first should I or should I not test the ignition coils?
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Old November 9th, 2017, 09:03 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by TrickyTriggs View Post
First things first should I or should I not test the ignition coils?
Up to you. As Jim said, an extra 10-seconds after all this time isn't going to add up to much more damage. Most likely terminal as it is.
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Old November 9th, 2017, 09:29 PM   #51
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I just realized how stupid I am��. I didn’t replace the oil filter��. It probably has over 10,000 miles on it....

Having said that, did that create low oil pressure? If so, how does the whole system work if anybody knows? (The oil routing)
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Old November 9th, 2017, 09:54 PM   #52
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In systems I'm familiar with, a clogged filter won't reduce pressure, but it will cause the bypass valve to open, and allow oil to bypass the filter. That's not good, but isn't disastrous. Riding with a quart less oil than it's designed to have could make the pump draw air, and air doesn't lubricate very well. Follow the suggestions above to see if you learn anything. If not, some disassembly is needed.

In the worst case, you may find that a good used engine is not very expensive compared to a full rebuild.
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Old November 9th, 2017, 10:16 PM   #53
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Time for Chevy V8 swap...
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Old November 9th, 2017, 10:22 PM   #54
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Pretty sure the frame would bend under the weight alone lol.

Ok I’ve got a lot of work cut out for me. Good thing it’s winter so I won’t feel so bad not being able to ride. Having said that, anyone that has done an engine rebuild before I would gladly appreciate your support and patience.

Before I even take out the engine what kind of tools, liquids, grease, etc do I need to embark on this journey?
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Old November 10th, 2017, 07:18 AM   #55
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I would check E-bay and Craigslist before I even attempted to open that motor. You can buy a crashed bike that runs for $200 and just swap in the motor. This is way less work than splitting the case, removing the head and all the other things necessary to get the motor you have fixed up. You only need the motor and I would bet there are lots of late 90's GS motors out there for cheap. Sorry your motor is bad--I am currently rebuilding 2 Ducati motors- it is usually much cheaper and faster to just swap in another motor than to disassemble, refresh and reinstall your motor. Since you ran it low on oil there may be other damage that is not obvious at this time. You may be better off with a different motor all together, unless you are like me and love to tear things apart and make them better.


Best of luck

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Old November 10th, 2017, 07:20 AM   #56
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There is significant metal Dust in the oil filter, as well as, bronze flakes in the oil. What does that mean?

Here’s the video
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nRLPcKki1Fk
Ya - that's bad news...

Toasted bearings.
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Old November 10th, 2017, 09:18 AM   #57
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I think I will rebuild the engine because I have an RF900R I’m rebuilding; the experience and know how would be very valuable. In addition, I will have to rebuild it at some point anyways.

Having said that, what will I need to do this. I have....

Repair Manuel
Micrometer
Air compressor
Wrench

What else do I need; Tools, Parts, liquids, etc?
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Old November 10th, 2017, 09:21 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrickyTriggs View Post
There is significant metal Dust in the oil filter, as well as, bronze flakes in the oil. What does that mean?

Here’s the video
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nRLPcKki1Fk
Oops, I missed the link to the video. No need to swap coils or measure bearing slop, you found the problem. Ruined bearings, probably caused by lack of oil.
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Old November 10th, 2017, 09:24 AM   #59
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Quote:
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Oops, I missed the link to the video. No need to swap coils or measure bearing slop, you found the problem. Ruined bearings, probably caused by lack of oil.

Lol story of my life
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Old November 12th, 2017, 04:18 PM   #60
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Anyone have any tips they can give me? Past mistakes?
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Old November 12th, 2017, 05:03 PM   #61
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I mentioned my only tip above: A decent used engine is probably the way to go.
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Old November 15th, 2017, 12:26 AM   #62
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Ok I’ve got a lot of work cut out for me. Good thing it’s winter so I won’t feel so bad not being able to ride. Having said that, anyone that has done an engine rebuild before I would gladly appreciate your support and patience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrickyTriggs View Post
Anyone have any tips they can give me? Past mistakes?
I’m in accord with other suggestions: get used engine for $2-300 and spend 5-6 hrs swapping it in.

I’ve rebuilt about 10 bike engines and around 20 auto engines of my own. For customers, I performed about 50 engine-upgrades on Porsche engines in my shop. I’ll estimate rebuilding that engine’s going cost you at least $500 in parts, if they’re even available. And about $500 in machine-shop services to cut & polish crank (or line-bore cases with new crank), resize rod-end, hone bores and fit pistons and rings. And you’ll be spending about 40-60 hrs of your own time disassembling and ferrying pieces of that engine around to various machine shops.

Here’s my first bike that I rebuilt after 10-yrs. Cost me about $1000 for spare engine and rebuild parts along with $600 in machine shop services (a little hot-rodding with larger valves, radiused seats and higher compression).





Took about a year to build up this car for Open Track Challenge

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Old November 15th, 2017, 06:11 AM   #63
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Sounds like you may have thrown a rod. I would suggest stop running the bike, but the damage is probably already done. Gotta get that engine apart ASAP.
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Old November 17th, 2017, 09:25 AM   #64
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I plan to polish the crank myself then replace the bearings. Since I won’t be replacing the crank or the pistons, etc. Would this be a viable and cheap solution?
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Old November 17th, 2017, 09:47 AM   #65
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Crankshaft journal clearances are critical, so accurate measurement is required. Plastigage is a good way for someone to check the clearances.
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Old November 17th, 2017, 09:57 AM   #66
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Yes I will get the clearance measuring tools, will that be enough to make the bike run?
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Old November 17th, 2017, 11:09 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrickyTriggs View Post
I plan to polish the crank myself then replace the bearings. Since I won’t be replacing the crank or the pistons, etc. Would this be a viable and cheap solution?
Quote:
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Yes I will get the clearance measuring tools, will that be enough to make the bike run?
It really depends upon how bad the damage is. If it's anywhere close to photos I posted above (probably worse given your video), you cannot simply smooth out scratches on journals. They must be machine milled to be perfectly circular so that bearing-clearance is precisely even all way across and all way around circumference. You'll also need accurate bore gauges:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BB10LCO
https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/75127936

This is NOT an ordinary rebuild where you can just touch up journals, replace bearings and rings. That would only be case if you've got engine that's running perfectly but is just tired. This engine most likely will require machining pretty much every contact surface inside due to bearing shrapnel that's been circulating around. Running low on oil and spinning rod-bearing is enough to destroy crank, but having no oil-filtering and sending those bearing-shards through every part of engine pretty much guarantees complete destruction and annihilation. You most likely will need at least new crank, rods, pistons+rings, cylinder sleeves, valve-guides & seals, cams and followers, maybe even oil-pump. Spending $1000+ and 60-hrs of your time simply is not worth it for results.

Start with taking apart existing engine and assessing level of damage and how much work it'll need to repair.
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Old November 17th, 2017, 11:21 AM   #68
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If you really plan to try to repair the engine, the first step is to take it apart and see what's going to be required. Only than can you know. At this point it's all speculation.

You can avoid having to buy expensive tools by letting automotive machine shops do the journal and cylinder measuring. Plastigage is not expensive, and is very accurate, if you want to measure bearing clearances.
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Old November 23rd, 2017, 07:12 PM   #69
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm6GNhUi-bA

I think that you were 100% correct.
The right piston rods and bearings are scorched and annihilated!!!
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Old November 23rd, 2017, 07:16 PM   #70
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Say I just wanted it to run, not well but run. So that I can sell it and be done with it. Is this salvageable? (crank, rods)
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Old November 23rd, 2017, 10:44 PM   #71
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You want to sell someone an engine that doesn't run well?
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Old November 23rd, 2017, 11:33 PM   #72
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No I want to sell the bike as a whole. I just need to know if it needs a new crank.
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Old November 24th, 2017, 07:31 AM   #73
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Well, if you sell a bike with a engine that doesn't run well, you're selling someone an engine that doesn't run well.

I'd say you should take it to an automotive machine shop and get them to evaluate it. Most engines have undersized bearings available so you can get the crank journals ground and effectively have a new crank, but I haven't checked the availability for that engine.
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Old November 24th, 2017, 07:43 PM   #74
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I recently sold a low-mileage pregen engine in great condition for $250.

Swapping an engine will usually be a lot less expensive and quicker than going through a blown engine and rebuilding it.

There's always one more thing than need to be done or replaced, and the cost estimate at the beginning is never the final cost.
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Old November 24th, 2017, 07:57 PM   #75
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Yeah, you've got to crunch numbers and see what the final results will be. Sure, you want out of this mess, you've got rough!y three paths:

1. Sell as-is with blown motor. You'll get maybe $500-800

2. Rebuild existing engine and sell for $2000 minus $1000-1500 repair costs = $500-1000. Don't forget the opportunity-cost of 40-60hrs of your time. How much could you have earned in that time if you spent it working instead of messing with engine? Factor that in and you've lost at least a grand on this deal.

3. Swap in used engine gives best return. You can sell bike for $1800 minus used engine $300 =
$1500. Not a bad return for just 5-hrs time to swap engine. You'll get most money for very little time spent.
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Old November 24th, 2017, 10:01 PM   #76
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Engines that I have found cost like $700, if you’ve seen a cheaper one send me a link please.
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Old November 24th, 2017, 11:30 PM   #77
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Here's one near me for $400
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/mpo...398619671.html

Unadvertized ones tend to be cheaper. Call around to various breakers and they may have one on shelf they want to clear out.
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Old November 28th, 2017, 04:16 PM   #78
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At this point I have already disassembled the entire engine, I also bought a complete engine gasket kit for $100, as well as 3; 0-3” micrometers to measure the crank diameter. My next step is to take a few hours and sand down the rough grooves on the right crank surface. Not sure how much will be needed to sand down to a shiny finish but I hope it will be small enough to fit a thicker bearing. I had a queastion about that, what is thethe thickest bearing there is and if there’s a place that I can get custom thickness bearings?

I’m also wondering what the complete procedure would be from sanding the crank and polishing it, to a finished bearing, crank, rod assembly. Thanks a lot for the help!!!

Also, any idea about which brand plasti guage I should buy?
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Old November 28th, 2017, 04:43 PM   #79
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You can't sand down a journal and expect the engine to function properly in the long term. The crank has to be ground very accurately to the next standard undersize, and matching bearing inserts have to be used. Crankshaft grinding doesn't cost an arm and a leg at an automotive machine shop. I don't know if undersize bearing inserts are available for this engine.

The maximum allowable big end journal to rod bearing clearance according to the manual is 0.059mm, which is 0.0023 inches, or about two thousandths of an inch.

edit: It looks like you can get undersize inserts through AliExpress, so maybe others have them too.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4pcs...285009865.html
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Old November 28th, 2017, 04:46 PM   #80
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Quote:
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Yeah, you've got to crunch numbers and see what the final results will be. Sure, you want out of this mess, you've got rough!y three paths:

1. Sell as-is with blown motor. You'll get maybe $500-800

2. Rebuild existing engine and sell for $2000 minus $1000-1500 repair costs = $500-1000. Don't forget the opportunity-cost of 40-60hrs of your time. How much could you have earned in that time if you spent it working instead of messing with engine? Factor that in and you've lost at least a grand on this deal.

3. Swap in used engine gives best return. You can sell bike for $1800 minus used engine $300 =
$1500. Not a bad return for just 5-hrs time to swap engine. You'll get most money for very little time spent.
You I keep going over this and I keep thinking; yes, if I replace my engine with a used one, I then have no idea what it’s been through or how she’s worn. The upside is I get to ride immediately but for how long???? For all I know this used engine could be a lemon, it’ll work for a 1000 miles then it’ll blow.

Where as if I rebuilt my own engine;
- I know her top to bottom
- I know how much longer she will last
- I know how to rebuild an engine
- it doesn’t cost $1000 to rebuild
- $110 for gasket kit
- $10 oil filter
- $40 oil
- $15 assembly lube
- $20 liquid gasket
- $64 8x bearings
- $60 box’o’rags, mechanics rags, wd-40, microfiber towel
- $62 0-3” micrometers
- $50 tonque wrench
- $50 micrometers caliper
- $15 plasti-gauge
- $30 mineral oil
_______________
Total = $526

Let me know if I missed anything. Note that some of these are tools I didn’t have. So for further rebuilds it will cost less money.
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