ninjette.org

Go Back   ninjette.org > General > Riding Skills

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 26th, 2018, 07:16 PM   #1
BlueNinjaF18
ninjette.org member
 
BlueNinjaF18's Avatar
 
Name: Mike
Location: Bennettsville
Join Date: Mar 2018

Motorcycle(s): 2004 Kawasaki Ninja 250r

Posts: 25
Input from instructors and veteran riders

Hey all!
First I want to say that as a new rider, I am very thankful for the help that I have received from the members of this site. It means a lot as I have no friends locally who ride.

I would like to ask input from those of you who are instructors and veteran rides on throttle control. It is the one issue that creates fear in me, as I have had two crashes my first week because of it. I can't afford to take the MSF course, so I'm uncertain how to proceed.

It's been a month since I've ridden after my second accident, and I want to know what techniques I can use to learn not to over throttle while riding or if I panic? I've scoured the web for resources, however I've not found anything to help.

I'm confident that if I can control the throttle, I'll be able to ride into the sunset, and not the Emergency room.
BlueNinjaF18 is offline   Reply With Quote




Old March 26th, 2018, 08:00 PM   #2
Z1R rider
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Z1R rider's Avatar
 
Name: Roger
Location: Mitchell, South Dakota
Join Date: Apr 2014

Motorcycle(s): 1978 Z1R, 1999 EX250

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Oct '16
I guess I'm curious how fast you were going and what gear you were in when you lost it. I would guess that the street you were riding on was dirty or gravely or wet if the rear end spun up and you went down. Or maybe because your a new rider it took off faster than your comfortable with and lack of skills took you down, could the problem be poor clutch accutation. A lot of us are self taught and a lot of us learned to ride in the dirt (on a dirt bike) before we ever rode on the street. Take your time and find a parking lot of some other open area to practice take offs and stopping without putting the extra pressure on yourself of holding up traffic or going down in traffic and possibly hitting someone or being hit by traffic.
__________________________________________________
top of the day to ya Unregistered
Z1R rider is offline   Reply With Quote


Old March 26th, 2018, 08:17 PM   #3
BlueNinjaF18
ninjette.org member
 
BlueNinjaF18's Avatar
 
Name: Mike
Location: Bennettsville
Join Date: Mar 2018

Motorcycle(s): 2004 Kawasaki Ninja 250r

Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z1R rider View Post
I guess I'm curious how fast you were going and what gear you were in when you lost it. I would guess that the street you were riding on was dirty or gravely or wet if the rear end spun up and you went down. Or maybe because your a new rider it took off faster than your comfortable with and lack of skills took you down, could the problem be poor clutch accutation. A lot of us are self taught and a lot of us learned to ride in the dirt (on a dirt bike) before we ever rode on the street. Take your time and find a parking lot of some other open area to practice take offs and stopping without putting the extra pressure on yourself of holding up traffic or going down in traffic and possibly hitting someone or being hit by traffic.

I was traveling around twenty miles an hour, practicing downsizing. I observed a large pothole, swerved right to miss it, and saw a crapload of loose gravel. I panicked and twisted the throttle. Back tire spun and I went down.
BlueNinjaF18 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old March 26th, 2018, 08:57 PM   #4
Z1R rider
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Z1R rider's Avatar
 
Name: Roger
Location: Mitchell, South Dakota
Join Date: Apr 2014

Motorcycle(s): 1978 Z1R, 1999 EX250

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Oct '16
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueNinjaF18 View Post
I panicked
There's the key, you just need to put yourself at ease.
Get comfortable with the controls and the feel of the bike and you should do better. Just takes time and practice in most cases. Some people never do get the hang of it and give up, my brother-in-law comes to mind, he never could get his hands to do what he'd always done with his feet. He doesn't even try to ride anymore.
__________________________________________________
top of the day to ya Unregistered
Z1R rider is offline   Reply With Quote


Old March 26th, 2018, 09:14 PM   #5
BlueNinjaF18
ninjette.org member
 
BlueNinjaF18's Avatar
 
Name: Mike
Location: Bennettsville
Join Date: Mar 2018

Motorcycle(s): 2004 Kawasaki Ninja 250r

Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z1R rider View Post
There's the key, you just need to put yourself at ease.
Get comfortable with the controls and the feel of the bike and you should do better. Just takes time and practice in most cases. Some people never do get the hang of it and give up, my brother-in-law comes to mind, he never could get his hands to do what he'd always done with his feet. He doesn't even try to ride anymore.

I almost did give up, but in the ER laying on that bed I decided that walking away afraid wasn't the answer. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't afraid, however I want to learn to ride, even if I have to learn by reading books, forums, and watching YouTube videos. I keep thinking back to the fact that I was afraid of the power of the bike even though it's a 250.

I'm new, with no experience, and eager to learn.
BlueNinjaF18 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old March 26th, 2018, 10:45 PM   #6
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Practice throttle control while upright in a straight line.

I made my wife go back and forth in parking lot while adjusting speed:

5s @ 14mph
4s @ 17mph
6s @ 13mph
3s @ 21mph
Turn around
5s @ 16mph
3s @ 22mph
4s @ 19mph
Etc.

Wax on, wax off
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old March 26th, 2018, 11:29 PM   #7
BlueNinjaF18
ninjette.org member
 
BlueNinjaF18's Avatar
 
Name: Mike
Location: Bennettsville
Join Date: Mar 2018

Motorcycle(s): 2004 Kawasaki Ninja 250r

Posts: 25
Thanks guys.
BlueNinjaF18 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old March 27th, 2018, 06:19 AM   #8
jkv45
Rev Limiter
 
jkv45's Avatar
 
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013

Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
Sorry to hear about your accidents, glad you are OK.

At this point I would take a break from riding and enroll in a MSF course. The cost is not minimal, but neither are hospital or repair bills.

You need solid basic instruction in order to continue riding safely. That will help you know what to do when you are taken by surprise and need to react quickly and correctly.

Right now you aren't sure what to do, or how to do it, and that is leading to a panic reaction. You need to learn basic riding skills so you can react quickly and appropriately to avoid losing control.

Dirt bikes are another excellent learning tool. On the dirt you are constantly correcting and reacting, which leads to learning what to do when the cycle starts to get out of control. Plus speeds are low and traffic isn't an issue.
jkv45 is offline   Reply With Quote


2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
Old March 27th, 2018, 07:23 AM   #9
adouglas
Cat herder
 
adouglas's Avatar
 
Name: Gort
Location: A secret lair which, being secret, has an undisclosed location
Join Date: May 2009

Motorcycle(s): Aprilia RS660

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 6
MOTM - Jul '18, Nov '16, Aug '14, May '13
A few things to think about:

1) Look at the big picture of cost and safety. @jkv45 has it exactly right. How much did that visit to the ER cost? Invest your money wisely. Plus the MSF course gives you a discount on insurance....

Someone who "cannot afford" something that only costs a couple of hundred bucks to begin with isn't really prioritizing that expenditure IMHO. You can save that much if you try.

2) You swerved to avoid a pothole and THEN you saw the gravel. So, you panicked. If you'd seen the pothole and the gravel sooner, would you have panicked, or would you have been able to avoid the situation entirely? Common beginner mistake is to not look far enough ahead. Lift your vision... everything will slow down and you'll have more time to react. Far less likely to panic that way.

3) Think ahead too. Have a plan. You reacted to something sudden and unexpected without thinking. Think through the operation of the motorcycle before you get into those situations. That's what practice is for. You can visualize too, when you're not on the bike. Think a lot about this stuff... the more time you spend in your head thinking about riding, the easier riding becomes.

4) Simplify your workload. You were practicing downshifting and had to swerve to avoid a pothole at the same time. See above... if you'd seen the pothole sooner by lifting your vision, you wouldn't have been trying to do too much at once. Chances are, since you're new, your downshift wasn't smooth. So you had an upset bike, distraction, sudden appearance of another complicating factor (gravel)... it all adds up to mental overload.

5) When you do your parking lot practice, try doing some throttle roll-on practice at the same speed but in different gears. You'll notice that in lower gears, the throttle feels snatchier. Aim for smoothness first, vs. being in the "right" gear. It's not a crime to be in too high a gear... and as you gain experience, you'll gain smoothness and be banging those downshifts like a pro.

6) A little goes a long way. You don't need to move the throttle much at all. Think in little increments, like a ratchet. Same with brakes... pop quiz: What's the most powerful thing on a motorcycle? Answer: The front brake. With two fingers you can literally stand a sportbike on its nose. Gentle, smooth, never big and abrupt.

7) You don't need to be on a bike to practice riding skills. I do it in my car all the time. Downshifting (I drive a stick), throttle roll-on and roll-off, line selection, braking markers, traffic awareness... even a dull commute can become a learning opportunity. Sometimes I run laps in my head to relax... ever seen an Olympic skier, skater or bobsled driver zoning out and visualizing the course? Like that. Close your eyes and visualize throttle control. What does it feel like to just crack the throttle open a little bit? How much do you move your hand? What do you feel the bike doing?

8) On panic: You panic because you've exceeded your ability to handle a situation. Think of it like this.... you've got $10 worth of attention. Everything you need to deal with at any given moment costs. If you're spending $8 just trying to control the bike, that leaves only $2 to handle everything else. That pothole took up another $1.50. But then you saw that patch of gravel. It costs $5 all by itself, and now you're broke. What did you have to give up? That's right... your ability to control the bike, specifically the throttle. And down you went.

Point is, do what you can to reduce the routine "costs" (e.g. look farther ahead, slow down, think ahead, have a plan, practice, etc. etc.) so you have more left to deal with the unexpected.



Recommended book: Twist of the Wrist II, by Keith Code. The video is also excellent.
__________________________________________________
I am NOT an adrenaline junkie, I'm a skill junkie. - csmith12

Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est.
Heri historia. Cras mysterium. Hodie donum est. Carpe diem.
adouglas is offline   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old March 27th, 2018, 07:29 AM   #10
CC Cowboy
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
CC Cowboy's Avatar
 
Name: Whodat
Location: Ware Is.,MA
Join Date: Jan 2009

Motorcycle(s): I pass the wind!

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Mar '13, Jun '14
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueNinjaF18 View Post
Hey all!
I can't afford to take the MSF course, so I'm uncertain how to proceed.

It is my opinion that you can't afford not to take the MSF course. It is cheaper than a new motorcycle and hospital bills (or death).
__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control; you're just not going fast enough!
CC Cowboy is offline   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old March 27th, 2018, 07:37 AM   #11
csmith12
The Corner Whisperer
 
csmith12's Avatar
 
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track)

Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
Hi Mike,

I am a MSF RiderCoach and PTR coach (track day) at Mid-Ohio. If I understand your current riding status, you are here.



I know exactly what you are talking about from teaching my own kids and wife to ride. The panic simply freezes the rider in place. Frankly put, stay off public streets until you move past this.

You have some options...
1. Stop riding until you can complete the MSF course (best course of action)
2. Find a friend with a small scooter or dirt bike (50cc), learn basic throttle control/braking on that
2. Find yourself a trusted friend that can help you with the basics on the bike at silly slow speeds in a parking lot (until brake, clutch, throttle is understood)

You might say, "But I have no friends?" I will tell you hogwash... Find a local bike night in your area and go make some new ones or just post on facebook. I got a $10 spot that says one of your facebook friends can ride. Having met soooooooooo many riders over the years, I would have a hard time believing that you couldn't find one person that would be willing to help you get started.

We all start somewhere and it's nothing to be ashamed of or fear. In fact, it's imho... one of the best times in riding because everything is so fresh and new. Having said that though, we have even taken track riders OFF the track and put them in the parking lot to work on a skill or address a safety concern. It removes many risks and ensures a dry and debris free environment so the rider can focus on THEMSELVES without other distractions.

Just to share that your not alone. My wife still freezes up due to panic, my kids had it really bad too. I started their riding careers... on 4wheelers (with throttle tube mods vs thumb throttle). I also angled their wrist DOWN a little, so it was harder for them to "over accelerate." Hitting the fence at 7mph is better than hitting it at 50mph. :\ After a while, my son now drags pegs with me.

Good luck and keep at it, once you get over the hump, a whole new world of riding is coming your way.

Be safe out there!


ps... Now is the best time to get in the habit of gearing up. Despite what you might hear, good quality, well fitting gear actually makes the ride BETTER! The added confidence will also serve you very well while learning.
csmith12 is offline   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old March 27th, 2018, 07:39 AM   #12
BlueNinjaF18
ninjette.org member
 
BlueNinjaF18's Avatar
 
Name: Mike
Location: Bennettsville
Join Date: Mar 2018

Motorcycle(s): 2004 Kawasaki Ninja 250r

Posts: 25
Mr Douglas I really appreciate your input. I am currently reading Proficient Motorcycling and Twist of the Wrist volume one. I completely agree with your thoughts on my training, and I have reached out to an instructor for help, as I am out of a job right now and cannot afford the MSF course at this time.
BlueNinjaF18 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old March 27th, 2018, 07:47 AM   #13
adouglas
Cat herder
 
adouglas's Avatar
 
Name: Gort
Location: A secret lair which, being secret, has an undisclosed location
Join Date: May 2009

Motorcycle(s): Aprilia RS660

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 6
MOTM - Jul '18, Nov '16, Aug '14, May '13
TOTW I is more about racing (I'm reading it myself right now, as a matter of fact). TOTW II talks a LOT about panic.

Proficient Motorcycling is also really good and full of smart street strategies.

Listen to sensei @csmith12. He knoweth that of which he speaketh.
__________________________________________________
I am NOT an adrenaline junkie, I'm a skill junkie. - csmith12

Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est.
Heri historia. Cras mysterium. Hodie donum est. Carpe diem.
adouglas is offline   Reply With Quote


Old March 27th, 2018, 07:49 AM   #14
BlueNinjaF18
ninjette.org member
 
BlueNinjaF18's Avatar
 
Name: Mike
Location: Bennettsville
Join Date: Mar 2018

Motorcycle(s): 2004 Kawasaki Ninja 250r

Posts: 25
@csmith12 I really appreciate the input. I do have two friends from bible college that ride, in addition to the guy that sold me the bike. All of them have helped by giving me input.

I'm waiting on a response from the local MSF instructor to see if he can recommend a local rider that would be willing to help me until I can afford to take the course. It's been my desire to take it since I learned about it it's existence, however I am currently unemployed.

I spend hours every day reading articles,and watching videos of other riders to try to gain as much understanding of this as I can.
BlueNinjaF18 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old March 27th, 2018, 07:58 AM   #15
adouglas
Cat herder
 
adouglas's Avatar
 
Name: Gort
Location: A secret lair which, being secret, has an undisclosed location
Join Date: May 2009

Motorcycle(s): Aprilia RS660

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 6
MOTM - Jul '18, Nov '16, Aug '14, May '13
Check your pm. And when you can, do the right thing.
__________________________________________________
I am NOT an adrenaline junkie, I'm a skill junkie. - csmith12

Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est.
Heri historia. Cras mysterium. Hodie donum est. Carpe diem.
adouglas is offline   Reply With Quote


Old March 29th, 2018, 11:02 AM   #16
CaliGrrl
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
CaliGrrl's Avatar
 
Name: Kerry
Location: Ventura, CA
Join Date: Jan 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja650

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Apr '18, Apr '17, Apr '16
Sounds like you need to get a feel for both clutch and throttle so do it in an empty parking lot or similar. It felt like a stupid thing to do, at the riding course, to walk the bike using the clutch friction zone, but in retrospect, it was a good thing. I figured, I've ridden dirtbike before, I know this, but it was still good to do it.

Once you have a handle on that, you can add just a tiny bit of throttle. Get a feel for it. The bike doesn't actually need any throttle to move. It's slow, but that's ok.

It's good that you've reached out to an instructor and please do take the training course. Totally worth the cash.
CaliGrrl is offline   Reply With Quote


Old March 29th, 2018, 11:19 AM   #17
michvin
ninjette.org member
 
michvin's Avatar
 
Name: Michael
Location: Northern NJ
Join Date: Nov 2014

Motorcycle(s): 2015 Honda CB 500x

Posts: 120
Sounds like you have to understand what problem(s) are you trying to solve: break the big one into smaller ones.
I'd start by asking myself if my basic skills (throttle/clutch/brake/shift) are ok and every basic action on a bike can be performed smoothly and safely.
Practice in safe environment without environmental hazards. After these are mastered, think about SEE strategy (more in the MSF course).
You really can't afford not to take it.

Newly certified RiderCoach here
michvin is offline   Reply With Quote


2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
Old March 29th, 2018, 02:21 PM   #18
BlueNinjaF18
ninjette.org member
 
BlueNinjaF18's Avatar
 
Name: Mike
Location: Bennettsville
Join Date: Mar 2018

Motorcycle(s): 2004 Kawasaki Ninja 250r

Posts: 25
Thanks @CaliGrrl and @michvin I appreciate the advice.
BlueNinjaF18 is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[RoadRUNNER] - Female Riders: We Need Your Input! Ninjette Newsbot Motorcycling News 0 December 1st, 2016 02:20 PM
[RoadRUNNER] - Zero Motorcycles Offering Discount for Student Riders, Instructors, Mi Ninjette Newsbot Motorcycling News 0 August 19th, 2016 05:21 AM
[RoadRUNNER] - DirtDAZE to Welcome Award-winning Riders and Instructors Ninjette Newsbot Motorcycling News 0 March 18th, 2016 12:10 PM
[topix.net] - Sea to Sea riders arrive home for Veteran's Salute Monday at Fair Ninjette Newsbot Motorcycling News 0 August 12th, 2012 02:00 AM
[roadracingworld.com] - USBA Looking For Independent Riding Schools, Instructors To O Ninjette Newsbot Motorcycling News 0 December 22nd, 2010 10:50 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Motorcycle Safety Foundation

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:26 AM.


Website uptime monitoring Host-tracker.com
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Except where otherwise noted, all site contents are © Copyright 2022 ninjette.org, All rights reserved.