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Old May 8th, 2014, 10:48 AM   #1
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I think I need to clean my carbs..

(tl;dr at bottom) ****SOLUTION!!!****

Full story-
Well, this is my 3rd time riding my bike ever. I drove to the beach by my house (1 mile away) and I was practicing at the parking lot on how to slow down using down shifting and practicing my up shifting, etc. I must say, I am getting pretty decent at it...

Anyway, I started to go for a run down the street, I stopped at the stop sign and checked for cars, I had already downshifted into first, I was sure of that. The neutral light was not on. I slowly released the clutch and allowed the bike to accelerate slightly and started to pull the throttle just a bit. Well, for some reason the bike started to almost die! I made sure the clutch was fully released and yet my RPM's were only around the 1-2k margin. I even stalled out! I had no idea what had happened!

I turned the bike back on and it seemed fine. so I went on it a little bit, pulling it a little harder, shifting at around 8k rpms, etc. I went around again, back to the beach and it was shifting like a dream all over again, no issues. so I decide it's time to go home, down the road I was going through the same thing! I was moving in 2nd gear and I was going roughly 20 MPH. Some people at a cross walk were trying to let me go, they kept waving their hands as I slowly idled by! How embarrassing!! I down shifted to first and double-triple-quadriple checked that I was in first and I made SURE I was not in neutral...the clutch was fully released. The rpms were not jumping though, I pulled over and turned on the reserve gas, thinking I may be out of gas.

It rode a little better but still seemed hesitant. Once I got home I checked the gas, it seemed fine, there was at least 2 gallons in there. I wasn't sure what to think!

-----------------------

**Some important information**

my dad changed my spark plugs last night (we switched them to NGK, I triple checked the part number and made sure it was completely 100% correct). The old plugs didn't even look that bad, probably original so I'm glad we changed them, but they were just slightly brown. We honestly could of left them in there, so I don't think the engine has any issues.

The bike ever since we got it had a little bit of hesitation problem, so I don't think it's 100% the gas.

I guess I need to run some carb cleaner right? Or should I completely take a part the carbs? My dad does this all the time with snow blowers, old bikes, etc. so he should have little issues helping me out. However, I know he won't want to cause he hates doing them. lol so I need to convince him that carb cleaner won't solve the issue, we have to completely clean it (if that is true).

Also just a side note we drained the old gas and put in 2 gallons of premium gas when we bought the bike.

-The bike is an 03 with just under 3,000 miles. So I guess it had to of been sitting during some spans of it's life time. It sat all winter but was being used last summer.


------------------------

tl;dr - bike hesitates badly when you give it gas, it's inconsistent. Some times when it's acting up when you try to give it a lot of throttle (not WOT, but maybe half) it completely hesitates, it needs to ease... but it was giving me bad issues today where it wouldn't even allow me to ease onto the gas.


any help would be greatly appreciated,

thanks.
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Old May 8th, 2014, 11:41 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Hero Danny View Post
(tl;dr at bottom)

Full story-
Well, this is my 3rd time riding my bike ever. I drove to the beach by my house (1 mile away) and I was practicing at the parking lot on how to slow down using down shifting and practicing my up shifting, etc. I must say, I am getting pretty decent at it...

Anyway, I started to go for a run down the street, I stopped at the stop sign and checked for cars, I had already downshifted into first, I was sure of that. The neutral light was not on. I slowly released the clutch and allowed the bike to accelerate slightly and started to pull the throttle just a bit. Well, for some reason the bike started to almost die! I made sure the clutch was fully released and yet my RPM's were only around the 1-2k margin. I even stalled out! I had no idea what had happened!

I turned the bike back on and it seemed fine. so I went on it a little bit, pulling it a little harder, shifting at around 8k rpms, etc. I went around again, back to the beach and it was shifting like a dream all over again, no issues. so I decide it's time to go home, down the road I was going through the same thing! I was moving in 2nd gear and I was going roughly 20 MPH. Some people at a cross walk were trying to let me go, they kept waving their hands as I slowly idled by! How embarrassing!! I down shifted to first and double-triple-quadriple checked that I was in first and I made SURE I was not in neutral...the clutch was fully released. The rpms were not jumping though, I pulled over and turned on the reserve gas, thinking I may be out of gas.

It rode a little better but still seemed hesitant. Once I got home I checked the gas, it seemed fine, there was at least 2 gallons in there. I wasn't sure what to think!

-----------------------

**Some important information**

my dad changed my spark plugs last night (we switched them to NGK, I triple checked the part number and made sure it was completely 100% correct). The old plugs didn't even look that bad, probably original so I'm glad we changed them, but they were just slightly brown. We honestly could of left them in there, so I don't think the engine has any issues.

The bike ever since we got it had a little bit of hesitation problem, so I don't think it's 100% the gas.

I guess I need to run some carb cleaner right? Or should I completely take a part the carbs? My dad does this all the time with snow blowers, old bikes, etc. so he should have little issues helping me out. However, I know he won't want to cause he hates doing them. lol so I need to convince him that carb cleaner won't solve the issue, we have to completely clean it (if that is true).

Also just a side note we drained the old gas and put in 2 gallons of premium gas when we bought the bike.

-The bike is an 03 with just under 3,000 miles. So I guess it had to of been sitting during some spans of it's life time. It sat all winter but was being used last summer.


------------------------

tl;dr - bike hesitates badly when you give it gas, it's inconsistent. Some times when it's acting up when you try to give it a lot of throttle (not WOT, but maybe half) it completely hesitates, it needs to ease... but it was giving me bad issues today where it wouldn't even allow me to ease onto the gas.


any help would be greatly appreciated,

thanks.
Sounds like valves not carbs to me. Also you messing with all the idle screws did not help.
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Old May 8th, 2014, 11:47 AM   #3
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Sounds like valves not carbs to me. Also you messing with all the idle screws did not help.
It's not alright to adjust the idle on these?

Also what should I do if it is the valves?
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Old May 8th, 2014, 12:11 PM   #4
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It's not alright to adjust the idle on these?

Also what should I do if it is the valves?
Well adjust the valves. If the bike is not running right due to issue (A) playing around with something that is for fixing issue (Z) will not help you.

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Old May 8th, 2014, 12:15 PM   #5
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I'm not really sure what your problem is. It doesn't really sound like carbs to me, as gunked up carbs should be more consistently terrible to ride with. My wild guess is that there could some sort of issue with your shifter, causing you to get some false neutrals, but I'm really not sure. You could also double check that there's enough slack in the clutch cable, and that it's not binding on anything -- if it's occasionally sticking it might cause the issue you've described.

The only ways it would make sense as a carb issue is if you either had an intermittent vacuum leak, if there was some loose debris rattling around in your carbs which was occasionally obstructing the flow of gas, or if the floats were adjusted incorrectly (or not floating properly), keeping the float bowls from filling up with gas properly.

My prescription: ride the bike around the neighborhood a bit more and see how often it happens.

As to the idle: adjusting the idle is fine, but any time you make a change to the bike you'll want to keep track of what you do, and not change too many variables all at once. Also, I think fishdip was referring to adjusting the idle mixture screws on the carbs, rather than the idle speed adjustment knob. I don't see where you said anything about adjusting the idle on the bike, so I'm not really sure what fishdip is talking about either...
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Old May 8th, 2014, 12:23 PM   #6
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I stopped at the stop sign and checked for cars, I had already downshifted into first, I was sure of that. The neutral light was not on. I slowly released the clutch and allowed the bike to accelerate slightly and started to pull the throttle just a bit. Well, for some reason the bike started to almost die! I made sure the clutch was fully released and yet my RPM's were only around the 1-2k margin. I even stalled out! I had no idea what had happened!
Sounds like shifting technique to me... What RPMs are you running as you let the clutch out and give 'er some throttle?
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Old May 8th, 2014, 12:29 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Yarhj View Post
I'm not really sure what your problem is. It doesn't really sound like carbs to me, as gunked up carbs should be more consistently terrible to ride with. My wild guess is that there could some sort of issue with your shifter, causing you to get some false neutrals, but I'm really not sure. You could also double check that there's enough slack in the clutch cable, and that it's not binding on anything -- if it's occasionally sticking it might cause the issue you've described.

The only ways it would make sense as a carb issue is if you either had an intermittent vacuum leak, if there was some loose debris rattling around in your carbs which was occasionally obstructing the flow of gas, or if the floats were adjusted incorrectly (or not floating properly), keeping the float bowls from filling up with gas properly.

My prescription: ride the bike around the neighborhood a bit more and see how often it happens.

As to the idle: adjusting the idle is fine, but any time you make a change to the bike you'll want to keep track of what you do, and not change too many variables all at once. Also, I think fishdip was referring to adjusting the idle mixture screws on the carbs, rather than the idle speed adjustment knob. I don't see where you said anything about adjusting the idle on the bike, so I'm not really sure what fishdip is talking about either...
mixing up this and another thread.
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Old May 8th, 2014, 12:32 PM   #8
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#1 thing to do is get some decent basic training before hitting the streets again. There's too much to learn to do it by trial and error.

#2 thing - don't get overconfident. There's a lot to learn to be a good rider, and things happen quickly that you need to instinctively react to.

Riding a cycle that has running issues, especially as a brand new rider, is asking for trouble.

As far as the running problems, you could have rust in the tank if it wasn't stored properly that may be blocking fuel flow. It's also very possible that the carbs need to be removed and carefully cleaned if the fuel wasn't treated or the floatbowls weren't drained.
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Old May 8th, 2014, 12:47 PM   #9
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Well even my father who is an experience rider (been riding all his life, something like 40 years) says the bike has a hesitation problem.

I'm not an overconfident rider by any means. I am very cautious and over think things often. I just felt a little more confident in my riding, I've probably logged about 6 total ride hours so I think that's enough to know very very basic things such as shifting into first.

I've been trying my absolute best trying to learn how to ride, watching videos, reading articles, listening to my father, etc. And I know I am no where near competent but I do believe 100% this is not user error, this is a fault of the bike. There is no reason at all that the bike should have a hesitation on the gas, I was pulling the throttle back in first gear and it was only going up slightly, very... very slightly (bouncing between 1.5k - 3k rpms before it stalled.) So it was reacting slightly to the gas, but once I tried giving it more gas it just died.


I'll run some carb cleaner and fill it with gas, I will have my dad ride it around for a while to get the stuff through the system and have him give his complete diagnostic of the problem.

I appreciate all the help guys Any other ideas please feel free to shoot me over some.
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Old May 8th, 2014, 12:53 PM   #10
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As far as the running problems, you could have rust in the tank if it wasn't stored properly that may be blocking fuel flow. It's also very possible that the carbs need to be removed and carefully cleaned if the fuel wasn't treated or the floatbowls weren't drained.
The gas tank, [see photo] has some white stuff in there, my dad thinks it was treated for rust before, he says it looks well done actually.

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Old May 8th, 2014, 12:54 PM   #11
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There isn't much rust in other places on the bike, like screws, metal, etc. So i don't think it was stored out side or anything like that.
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Old May 8th, 2014, 01:06 PM   #12
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Side note: I just noticed that there is no hose under my gas tank (the one that goes above the battery which allows the fumes to escape safely.)
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Old May 8th, 2014, 03:05 PM   #13
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Side note: I just noticed that there is no hose under my gas tank (the one that goes above the battery which allows the fumes to escape safely.)
It is the over flow hose. It wont change how the bike is running it will just save you from blowing up since it vents right next to the battery with out it.
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Old May 8th, 2014, 03:16 PM   #14
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It is the over flow hose. It wont change how the bike is running it will just save you from blowing up since it vents right next to the battery with out it.
Yeah.. I'm going to try and get another hose...

as for the issue at hand, my father took it out and filled it with gas (91 octane) and he said he was able to get it to 70 on the way home. We pulled it in the garage poured one cap full of carb cleaner in the full tank, turned the bike off took the dog for a walk then returned. He went to start it once we got back (i was in the house) and he said that the bike was giving some issues when starting, but it did start.

He then wanted to go for a ride, so we went. I noticed the power still wasn't really there and as we rode it seemed to get worse. I had the throttle WIDE OPEN at 30 MPH in 3rd gear and the bike was only inching forward.

We got back and I had him ride it, he concurred that the bike has no power. It's almost as if it's firing on one cyl. But both exhausts were hot and had decent pressure coming from them.

We are both stumped.

On another side note it looks like there is a little bit of smoke coming out of the exhaust, i'm sure it's somewhat normal. Again, it's a very slight amount.


Any ideas?
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Old May 8th, 2014, 03:32 PM   #15
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Yeah.. I'm going to try and get another hose...

as for the issue at hand, my father took it out and filled it with gas (91 octane) and he said he was able to get it to 70 on the way home. We pulled it in the garage poured one cap full of carb cleaner in the full tank, turned the bike off took the dog for a walk then returned. He went to start it once we got back (i was in the house) and he said that the bike was giving some issues when starting, but it did start.

He then wanted to go for a ride, so we went. I noticed the power still wasn't really there and as we rode it seemed to get worse. I had the throttle WIDE OPEN at 30 MPH in 3rd gear and the bike was only inching forward.

We got back and I had him ride it, he concurred that the bike has no power. It's almost as if it's firing on one cyl. But both exhausts were hot and had decent pressure coming from them.

We are both stumped.

On another side note it looks like there is a little bit of smoke coming out of the exhaust, i'm sure it's somewhat normal. Again, it's a very slight amount.


Any ideas?
stop using 91 just put in regular. Also now it sounds like a clogged carb. If you start it and it will rev to 14k with out trouble but as soon as you try to ride it will bog down its clogged.
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Old May 8th, 2014, 06:19 PM   #16
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Yessir, I just cleaned the carb and it rode like a dream, complete night and day.

I am going to throw on an inline filter tomorrow to prevent **** from going inside the carb again.

Thank you
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Old May 8th, 2014, 06:40 PM   #17
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Yessir, I just cleaned the carb and it rode like a dream, complete night and day.

I am going to throw on an inline filter tomorrow to prevent **** from going inside the carb again.

Thank you
It ha 3 filters on the bike 2 on the petcock and one in line be sure to remove the inline one when you put a new one on I like to use the filter you can see the inside of it.
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Old May 8th, 2014, 08:53 PM   #18
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It ha 3 filters on the bike 2 on the petcock and one in line be sure to remove the inline one when you put a new one on I like to use the filter you can see the inside of it.
I don't think there is a filter on the inline right now.
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Old May 9th, 2014, 02:25 AM   #19
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I don't think there is a filter on the inline right now.
Its in side the fuel line going from the petcock to the carbs. its hard to tell its there but if you squeeze the hose you should be able to feel it.
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Old May 9th, 2014, 04:47 PM   #20
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Well I threw on a gas filter, I checked and there was no gas filter on the old one, there was, however, zip ties holding it down. This tells me that it was replaced. So i am guessing that's why the carbs were clogged.

My dad believes the gas tank was kreemed before [see picture above]. What do you think?

The bike is still sputtering, but it is able to at least run, the sputtering is very annoying though. Again, it's ride-able (unlike before) and that's good. my guess is there is still some stuff in the carbs that we didnt get to. My dad is going to bring it on the highway for about 10 miles to clean the crap out.

Any information on the "kreem" in the tank is very much appreciated.

Thanks!
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Old May 9th, 2014, 05:46 PM   #21
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No pic?
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Old May 9th, 2014, 05:48 PM   #22
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No pic?
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Old May 9th, 2014, 07:38 PM   #23
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Drain the floatbowls and look at what comes out.
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Old May 10th, 2014, 12:17 PM   #24
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Drain the floatbowls and look at what comes out.
Already did that when we cleaned the carbs
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Old May 10th, 2014, 12:48 PM   #25
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I rode the bike today, (didn't get to go on the highway though) It seemed alright. The sputtering is clearly still there, it happens around 4-8k RPMS. Especially when you are accelerating or taking off.

When you are going about 50 MPH and just cruising it seems to stabilize and virtually no sputtering (until I slow down for a corner, then it start to sputter as I speed up).

My dad thinks that I just need to run the engine on the highway for a good 20 miles and that should clear up whats ever left in the carbs. I will update you in a day or two once we get the bike rolling..

I hope we don't have to clean the carb again, that was not easy getting it out and cleaning it is very dangerous because the carb cleaner can eat your rubber gaskets very easily.
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Old May 10th, 2014, 01:30 PM   #26
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Already did that when we cleaned the carbs
Do it again and see what comes out now. That will tell you something about the condition of the gas tank and the fuel so you can cross it off the list of possible causes.
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Old May 10th, 2014, 01:52 PM   #27
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We added an inline filter so I doubt the float bowls will have anything in them... If anything it would be in the filter..
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Old May 10th, 2014, 03:55 PM   #28
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Well my dad had the bike on the highway. He went about 20 miles. He told me he got it up passed 90.

He said to me the bike drove beautifully after 70 MPH. He thinks he could have gotten it to over 100, but there were cops around.

Bike is still sputtering but it does seem slightly better. We are going to sea foam the engine tomorrow and he is going to drive it down the highway for 40 miles and see if that does anything. Hopefully we are just working the stuff through the carbs.
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Old May 11th, 2014, 06:58 PM   #29
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Update: well... we topped off the gas tank and then added 5 ounces of seafoam. Ran the bike for about 40 miles on the highway and around time... problem still persists. Maybe we need to keep riding it to work the seafoam out of the gas.

We have another idea, we think one of the hoses are sucking in air... possibly.... I'll keep updating until a solution is found...
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Old May 12th, 2014, 05:43 PM   #30
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Break through! We were messing with the vacuum lines and it seems that one of the lines is the culprit. We swapped the line going from the petcock to the carb to another carb hose to the petcock and tightened them up. (there was zip ties on them!) The bike is ridding MUCH better!

The sputtering is very minimal now but still somewhat there. We are going to replace all the vacuum lines and clamps and hope that will get the bike up to 100%!

Anybody know where I could get some new vacuum lines or clamps? Or even any information on the exact size of the line, etc. would help a lot.

I hope this thread will help anyone who is experiencing the same problem.
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Old May 12th, 2014, 06:30 PM   #31
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Break through! We were messing with the vacuum lines and it seems that one of the lines is the culprit. We swapped the line going from the petcock to the carb to another carb hose to the petcock and tightened them up. (there was zip ties on them!) The bike is ridding MUCH better!

The sputtering is very minimal now but still somewhat there. We are going to replace all the vacuum lines and clamps and hope that will get the bike up to 100%!

Anybody know where I could get some new vacuum lines or clamps? Or even any information on the exact size of the line, etc. would help a lot.

I hope this thread will help anyone who is experiencing the same problem.
Good to hear it's running better.

I would take the lines with you to a local cycle shop that works on Japanese cycles. If there isn't one close, an auto parts store may be able to match the i.d. to something they have.
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Old May 12th, 2014, 07:00 PM   #32
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Yeah, I literally have no motorcycle shops within a 30 minute drive... I tried autozone and they had nothing... It's strange :/

I was hoping to just get them online.
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Old May 13th, 2014, 07:41 PM   #33
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I've purchased OEM parts from Honda of East Toledo. They have better prices on most stuff than anywhere else I've seen online. I was able to get all new coolant hoses for the ninja last year. A couple were on backorder, and they called/emailed pretty quickly to ask what I wanted to do.
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Old June 7th, 2014, 04:27 PM   #34
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Well guys, it looks like my problem is BACK!

I don't understand it, now, the problem never 100% went away, but it was mostly gone and only came around at odd times, never consistent. So I just dealt with it.

Today, I was driving down the road... and I'm not going to lie. I was beating the bike a little bit. I was revving her up to around 10k before shifting... Which is probably too much... anyway... the bike was riding like a DREAM she was shifting perfect, she was pulling hard and fast! I got her up to 70 in NO TIME!

Then I pulled over to help give some directions to some tourists and as I was going back I was beating her again and it was fine, but then I noticed I started losing some power.. I didn't know why, I was driving slower and pulled down a dead end street.. As I turned around I pushed her down to a stop and tried launching her again. At around 4k RPM she sputters like CRAZY! It takes (no lie!) about 0-30 in 15 seconds...

When I pull in the clutch I can rev her and she'll go without any problems, but the second I'm in gear she doesn't want to go past 4k.....

Ugh, I'm not sure what the problem is.... My father suspects the rubber manifold going from the carbs.... so I think that's where we will start next.... any ideas?? This is consistent throughout all the gears, I am able to shift through them fine still and if I feather the throttle enough she will get up to about 40 (I haven't tried any high in fear of being stuck far from home).. it just takes a long time to get there.
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Old June 7th, 2014, 06:16 PM   #35
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I'm still not sold on this being a carburetor issue. If you can rev it as far as you want in neutral, then the carbs are properly sending fuel and air into the engine throughout the whole range of operation. Just letting out the clutch or shifting into gear changes nothing about how the carburetors work.

The one way the carbs could be involved is if you have some rust or rubber chunks floating around in the carburetor and they're just intermittently blocking your main jet or interfering with your float valve. When you took those other fuel and vacuum lines off, did the insides look smooth? If they were pitted or cracking, then you might just have a bunch of rubber bits stuck in your carburetors.

My unhelpful wild-goose-chase of a guess is that it sounds kind of like a clutch issue, but I'm really not sure.

Also, revving to 10k before shifting isn't going to hurt anything (once the motorcycle is warmed up, anyway). The redline is 14k, so you've got plenty of room left.
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Old June 7th, 2014, 07:52 PM   #36
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I'm still not sold on this being a carburetor issue. If you can rev it as far as you want in neutral, then the carbs are properly sending fuel and air into the engine throughout the whole range of operation. Just letting out the clutch or shifting into gear changes nothing about how the carburetors work.

The one way the carbs could be involved is if you have some rust or rubber chunks floating around in the carburetor and they're just intermittently blocking your main jet or interfering with your float valve. When you took those other fuel and vacuum lines off, did the insides look smooth? If they were pitted or cracking, then you might just have a bunch of rubber bits stuck in your carburetors.

My unhelpful wild-goose-chase of a guess is that it sounds kind of like a clutch issue, but I'm really not sure.

Also, revving to 10k before shifting isn't going to hurt anything (once the motorcycle is warmed up, anyway). The redline is 14k, so you've got plenty of room left.
Yeah, I'm sure 10k is fine, although once I get it working again I think I'm just going to granny shift at like 7k or something..

the old vacuum lines seemed pretty good as far as I could tell on the outside. there were some issues near where the clips were... but we already cleaned out the carbs once

What makes you think it's a clutch issue?

Thanks for the reply, I really appreciate it. I just hope I can work this nightmare out
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Old June 8th, 2014, 06:57 AM   #37
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I wish I had something more concrete for you -- mostly it's just an uneducated guess. When I retook the MSF I was on a CBR 250 that had an issue with first gear. It would rev fine with the clutch in, but had a lot of trouble getting past ~3k RPMs in 1st. Once it was past that it was OK. Your problem sounds sort of similar, but I'm not sure.

The fact that you can rev freely with the clutch pulled in but can't when you let it out is telling us something; I just don't know what!
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Old June 8th, 2014, 10:53 AM   #38
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I wish I had something more concrete for you -- mostly it's just an uneducated guess. When I retook the MSF I was on a CBR 250 that had an issue with first gear. It would rev fine with the clutch in, but had a lot of trouble getting past ~3k RPMs in 1st. Once it was past that it was OK. Your problem sounds sort of similar, but I'm not sure.

The fact that you can rev freely with the clutch pulled in but can't when you let it out is telling us something; I just don't know what!
You want to know what? I'll tell yah. Its an issue with the carb.
We pulled them today and cleaned them again. Problem completely went away.
If it happens again we may just buy new carb
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Old June 8th, 2014, 04:36 PM   #39
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Here's another update... Well, I went out to the shed shortly after "fixing" my bike and there was a large puddle of gasoline dripping from one of the carbs.... My face looked like this -__-

Luckily my father and I are now expert professionals at removing the carbs and popped them off in a matter of minutes.. One of the floats were not closing properly so we fixed it and put it back together

Bike is running STRONG much stronger than it's ever ran.

Only complaint is that when I am taking off from a stop in first gear it will be kind of weak until I hit about 3.5-4k rpms then it starts to pull. It works great throughout all the gears and rpms though so I am just going to leave it unless there is an easy fix.

Also, I have an issue with the idle. It idles fine for a little while but then will stall out after about 2 minutes.. It's quite annoying actually
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Old June 9th, 2014, 07:12 AM   #40
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You want to know what? I'll tell yah. Its an issue with the carb.
We pulled them today and cleaned them again. Problem completely went away.
If it happens again we may just buy new carb
This isn't the first time I've been wrong, and it won't be the last. Glad you got it working!

Does the idle issue persist after you've been riding around for 5-10 minutes? If it's just an issue with cold starts then it's not too abnormal (as long as you can keep it running with the choke, that is). If it happens even after the bike warms up then the carburetor bowls may not be filling up with enough gas, or gas may not be flowing to them quickly enough.

At this point it sounds like you've checked an re-checked the carbs a million times, so you've probably already checked the float height. Do you have an inline filter on the fuel line? Maybe it's got some crud stuck in it. Alternately, you might have some stuff stuck in the super-secret stock inline filter (about halfway down the page)
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