'08 250 won't start

[Rynownd]

Ok, I've had the bike since Sunday and I've already got a problem

It has been pretty darn cold around here the past couple days (under 30). But I wanted to take it around the block anyway. I started it yesterday... took a few tries under full choke, but it started. Tried to start it at 9am today (temp 15F) starter cranked, but it never caught and started at all. Same thing at around 3pm (temp 30F). Just tried it again... still nothin'.

Gettin' kinda nervous. Could I have fouled the plugs by trying to start it so much?

[kkim]

Turn the choke off, hold the throttle wide open and try starting the bike while keeping the throttle wide open. Try that a few times. If the bike does not start then, go back to full choke, no touching the throttle and try starting it again. You could have flooded it and the first step will clear it out if you did.

[Rynownd]

Originally Posted by kkim

Turn the choke off, hold the throttle wide open and try starting the bike while keeping the throttle wide open. Try that a few times. If the bike does not start then, go back to full choke, no touching the throttle and try starting it again. You could have flooded it and the first step will clear it out if you did.

Tried that... I cranked it for probably longer than I should have during the de-flood technique. Ive tried every combination of choke and throttle...

[kkim]

how much gas do you have?

[Alex]

Don't panic, if it was working a few days ago and nothing changed, it will more than likely soon be working again. These bikes don't have the largest of batteries. If you have tried to start it a number of times, especially in cold weather, the remaining power in the battery to successfully complete a cold-start may turn out to be marginal. Do you have a battery tender (or similar) yet? They are useful gadgets that keep a battery fully charged when you're not using the vehicle. MSRP on a battery tender junior is $40, and you can often find them for less than that.

[Rynownd]

Originally Posted by Alex

Don't panic, if it was working a few days ago and nothing changed, it will more than likely soon be working again. These bikes don't have the largest of batteries. If you have tried to start it a number of times, especially in cold weather, the remaining power in the battery to successfully complete a cold-start may turn out to be marginal. Do you have a battery tender (or similar) yet? They are useful gadgets that keep a battery fully charged when you're not using the vehicle. MSRP on a battery tender junior is $40, and you can often find them for less than that.

I dont have one, but it's definitely on the list of things. I did run it down quite a bit, but used another battery to get it to full charge again.

Yesterday when I cranked it, it would do the put-put-put die... took a few of those then stayed running. Today just cranks away with no sign of starting.

[g21-30]

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[Rynownd]

Originally Posted by g21-30

On sale right now! $29

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Done.

What to do till then? hahah

[kkim]

Ryne, I'm serious... how much gas do you have?

[Rynownd]

Originally Posted by kkim

Ryne, I'm serious... how much gas do you have?

Haha plennnty. At least half a tank. Believe me... it crossed my mind, and I checked.

[kkim]

where is the bike located? inside a garage or outside in the freezing temps? I'm thinking maybe the lower temps froze some water in the fuel overnight. How cold is it where the bike is sitting? Water in fuel is not uncommon if you live somewhere that uses ethanol.

If the battery is low, as Alex mentioned, best to charge it up before putting it back under a strain again.

[Rynownd]

Originally Posted by kkim

where is the bike located? inside a garage or outside in the freezing temps? I'm thinking maybe the lower temps froze some water in the fuel overnight. How cold is it where the bike is sitting? Water in fuel is not uncommon if you live somewhere that uses ethanol.

If the battery is low, as Alex mentioned, best to charge it up before putting it back under a strain again.

The bike is outside in freezing temps all the time. It still has the gas in it the previous owner put in it. He said he put 3/4 tank of premium in it before I picked it up. Isn't ethanol usually the 85 octane?

[kkim]

nope... it depends on the locality. We have ethanol here for all grades of gasoline.

btw, our bikes use 87. No harm in using premium, though it doesn't help anything except the oil companies get richer.

[Rynownd]

Originally Posted by kkim

nope... it depends on the locality. We have ethanol here for all grades of gasoline.

btw, our bikes use 87. No harm in using premium, though it doesn't help anything except the oil companies get richer.

Well, I guess all I can do now is hope its warmer tomorrow. As for the fuel, I have no intention of using premium when I start filling it. I read the 87octane recommendation in the manual. Thanks for the help.

[bob706]

When temps hit around 40-45 I have trouble starting my 08. Usually takes three or four tries with full choke and about 5sec. in between attempts. Hope it warms up for ya.

[Sloppy2nds]

I agree with kelly on this. there may have been a lot of moisture in your tank/lines which decreased the freezing point of your gas. you never really know how long the dealer or the person you bought it from left the tank empty/half empty and let moisture build up in there. best thing i can recommend is to add some heet or sea foam after giving your battery a lil charge to ensure you dont kill it.

[Rynownd]

Ok, it's definitely warm enough out... almost 50F and it stil wont start. Got plenty of charge and gas.

When I got home from school and tried to start it, it backfired quite loudly. Sounded like someone slamming the hell out of a cheap screen door.

?????????????????

[kkim]

the backfiring is "normal". http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14080

at least you know you're getting spark!

I'm still guessing it's either a fuel delivery problem or a starting method problem.

[Rynownd]

Originally Posted by kkim

the backfiring is "normal". http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14080

at least you know you're getting spark!

I'm still guessing it's either a fuel delivery problem or a starting method problem.

Ive got the left side ferring off right now... anything I can check over here?

[Rynownd]

....startin to get dark.... think I might have to call it quits again. Im stressin oouuuutt

[kkim]

check to see if the fuel petcock is in the "on" position and not the "pri" position. Also, check to see that in addition to the fuel line that runs from the petcock to the carbs, there is another smaller hose connected to the back of the fuel petcock. That's a vacuum hose and w/o it connected to the petcock, it will not flow any fuel.

[Rynownd]

Originally Posted by kkim

check to see if the fuel petcock is in the "on" position and not the "pri" position. Also, check to see that in addition to the fuel line that runs from the petcock to the carbs, there is another smaller hose connected to the back of the fuel petcock. That's a vacuum hose and w/o it connected to the petcock, it will not flow any fuel.

petcock is ON... ill go check the lines to it

[Rynownd]

all lines look fine



....other than the occasional backfire, this thing isnt makin any noise beside the starter turning

[islanderman7]

Do you know if you can make a video of your troubled start up?

[Rynownd]

Originally Posted by Rynownd

all lines look fine



....other than the occasional backfire, this thing isnt makin any noise beside the starter turning

PS I appreciate the help!

[Rynownd]

Originally Posted by islanderman7

Do you know if you can make a video of your troubled start up?

No video cameras in the house.


Procedure:
1.key in turn to ON
2.choke to full
3.kill switch to RUN
4.press starter.... doesnt do anything but run the starter... usually 5ish seconds at a time

[kkim]

as a test, turn the petcock to "pri" and try starting the bike.

[Rynownd]

Originally Posted by kkim

as a test, turn the petcock to "pri" and try starting the bike.

full choke?

should it start?

[Alex]

How are you making sure the battery has a full charge? When are you expecting to receive your battery tender? I'd put the cover back on the bike, and not worry about it until you have the tender in hand and have the battery fully topped off. Then start going down the list of all of the other things that could be causing issues, as listed in this thread (water in gas, incorrectly routed/connected lines, wrong petcock position, choke not working, etc).

[Rynownd]

Originally Posted by Alex

How are you making sure the battery has a full charge? When are you expecting to receive your battery tender? I'd put the cover back on the bike, and not worry about it until you have the tender in hand and have the battery fully topped off. Then start going down the list of all of the other things that could be causing issues, as listed in this thread (water in gas, incorrectly routed/connected lines, wrong petcock position, choke not working, etc).

I have it jumped to a non-running car. I will stop doing that and just wait til I get my tender I guess.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Rynownd

I have it jumped to a non-running car. I will stop doing that and just wait til I get my tender I guess.

If you have it jumped to a fully charged battery already, and are using its power to start the bike, then I'm afraid that the battery may not be the only issue. Doesn't mean the tender is a bad idea, but the theory that the bike battery doesn't have enough juice to turn the motor fast enough (or long enough) to start, starts to be less likely if you're already using a more powerful battery to give it a shot.

[kkim]

yep, it should not be a problem using another battery to start your bike.

if you want to continue, we can do that. if you want call it quits for the night, we can do that, too.

[Rynownd]

Originally Posted by kkim

yep, it should not be a problem using another battery to start your bike.

if you want to continue, we can do that. if you want call it quits for the night, we can do that, too.

It's too dark to continue... but the PRI did change the sound a little bit.


Totally bummed tho... first nice day in a while. Supposed to be warmer tomorrow. Im prayin to the Ninja gods tonight!

[rookie]

Hey just to let you know these bikes do not like the cold cant not start mine when its less than 35 out.

[kkim]

Cool. You need 3 things to start an engine... air, fuel and spark.

Unless something drastic has happened since yesterday, we can assume you are still getting air through the airbox. The back fire confirmed you are getting spark. The only thing left is fuel... or more so a fuel delivery issue. I know you just bought the bike, but did you see the bike actually start up and run sometime before/after the purchase?

If so, we are not getting the proper fuel/air ratio to start the cold bike. I'm trying to confirm you're getting fuel to the carbs. By using "pri" the fuel will flow w/o vacuum applied to the petcock, sort of like the gravity fed petcocks on the older bikes.

BTW, if you are done for the night, turn the petcock back to the "on" position.

Tomorrow, try starting the bike as you normally would (choke on, no touch the throttle, hit start button for about 5 seconds) with the petcock in the "pri" position. The "pri" position insure we are getting fuel to the carbs. If it doesn't catch, do the clearing out a flooded engine procedure and then try starting again.

If it doesn't start, we can continue troubleshooting.

edit- it sounds like you might need to shim your carbs in the future if the temp is affecting the starting, but lets get it started, first.

[Rynownd]

Originally Posted by rookie

Hey just to let you know these bikes do not like the cold cant not start mine when its less than 35 out.

Yeah, I assumed that was the problem yesterday. It was in the 40s all day today tho. Gettin up to 50 tomorrow.... I guess Ill just have to try again tomorrow.

But, I did get it to start in 15F temps 2 days ago.

[Rynownd]

Originally Posted by kkim

Cool. You need 3 things to start an engine... air, fuel and spark.

Unless something drastic has happened since yesterday, we can assume you are still getting air through the airbox. The back fire confirmed you are getting spark. The only thing left is fuel... or more so a fuel delivery issue. I know you just bought the bike, but did you see the bike actually start up and run sometime before/after the purchase?

If so, we are not getting the proper fuel/air ratio to start the cold bike. I'm trying to confirm you're getting fuel to the carbs. By using "pri" the fuel will flow w/o vacuum applied to the petcock, sort of like the gravity fed petcocks on the older bikes.

BTW, if you are done for the night, turn the petcock back to the "on" position.

Tomorrow, try starting the bike as you normally would (choke on, no touch the throttle, hit start button for about 5 seconds) with the petcock in the "pri" position. The "pri" position insure we are getting fuel to the carbs. If it doesn't catch, do the clearing out a flooded engine procedure and then try starting again.

If it doesn't start, we can continue troubleshooting.

First: Thanks!

I didnt actually see the bike start, it was running when I showed up. But when I got it home, I started it and rode it around for a while (Sunday). Monday I started it and rode it for a bit. Tuesday problems begin. Wednesday problems continue.

I turned the petcock back to ON for the night. Tomorrow I will try PRI + full choke.

Last: Thanks again!

[kkim]

wish you luck.

[Guinss]

have you tried not to use the electric starter?
put it in 2nd or 3rd gear, before you start moving. then push the bike a few ft and jump on and release the clutch. often thats all it takes(on bikes with e-start).

[kkim]

how is that different from using the starter?