3-Year-Old Gets Taken on Dangerous Motorcycle Ride

[deeno415]

OMG! This is just plain STUPID & RECKLESS! He obviously isn't gonna get "Father of the Year"! I just hope she survives her DUMBA** DAD's decisions in life... I hope they find this IDIOT!

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Panda]

Favorite part of video is +-3 years old. Are they implying she could be zero years old?

[Alex]

The somewhat interesting part is that it's probably not illegal, at least in California. In a state that requires child safety seats through graduate school, the laws for motorcycle passengers are quite lax. There is no minimum age; the only requirement is that the child be large enough to reach the rear passenger pegs with their feet. On sportbikes, that means many kids could probably do so at age 3. Whether it's appropriate or not is a completely different question.

[deeno415]

Originally Posted by Alex

The somewhat interesting part is that it's probably not illegal, at least in California. In a state that requires child safety seats through graduate school, the laws for motorcycle passengers are quite lax. There is no minimum age; the only requirement is that the child be large enough to reach the rear passenger pegs with their feet. On sportbikes, that means many kids could probably do so at age 3. Whether it's appropriate or not is a completely different question.

Are you for reals, Alex?!?! That just seems A**BACKWARDS! (<not Alpinestarsstars... ) Now I wanna look up motorcycle passenger laws.

I still couldn't see myself doing this. I have a 10 year old & she's been bugging me to ride on the back of the bike. And I still can't get myself to do it (maybe if I get her some gear - ATGATT). But even then, I can be as safe as possible but there are so many other elements that make it dangerous.

[deeno415]

@Alex: This is what I found...

Here is an answer from the California Highway Patrol:

A child may ride as a passenger on a motorcycle when he/she is no longer required to be in a child restraint (car seat) and their feet can reach the passenger foot pegs. Failure to obey this could result in citations being issued for violations of 27360 of the California Vehicle Code (Child Passenger Restraint law) and 27800 of the Vehicle Code (Motorcycles - Passengers: Equipment and Usage). Additionally, depending on the circumstances, an officer could cite or arrest the adult for child endangerment.

Just for clarification, the child seat law currently states children shall be secured in a proper child restraint until the age of 6 or 60 pounds.

As of January 1st, 2012 that law will be modified to require child restraints be used up to the age of 8 or until a child reaches 4'9" in height.

[verboten1]

I think my son was in kindergarten when he started riding with me. So, that's about 5 years old or so. He is a great passenger, he's been doing it for 8+ years!

[rasta]

I'm not sure what state that was in, but...

California PC 273(a) - Child Endangerment

Penal Code 273(a) punishes what is known as “child endangerment”, and is generally considered to be a “domestic violence” crime. There is a crime under 273(a) when an individual (a) places a child in a dangerous situation, or (b) allows a child to be placed in a dangerous situation without taking measures to protect the child.

[Alex]

@deeno415 - what you've shared is the opinion of the CHP, but it's not the law. Here's all the law says:

27800. It is unlawful for a driver of a motorcycle or a motorized
bicycle to carry any other person thereon, except on a seat securely
fastened to the machine at the rear of the driver and provided with
footrests, or in a sidecar attached to a motorcycle and designed for
the purpose of carrying a passenger. Every passenger on a motorcycle
or a motorized bicycle shall keep his feet on the footrests while
such vehicle is in motion.

There is no link that law or in 27360 that directly relates a motorcycle passenger to the child restraint seat requirements or anything else. Personally, I don't think their guidelines are a bad idea, and they seem relatively reasonable. But as far as I can tell, it's not the law.

[rasta]

Originally Posted by Alex

@deeno415 - what you've shared is the opinion of the CHP, but it's not the law. Here's all the law says:



There is no link that law or in 27360 that directly relates a motorcycle passenger to the child restraint seat requirements or anything else. Personally, I don't think their guidelines are a bad idea, and they seem relatively reasonable. But as far as I can tell, it's not the law.

But it's child endangerment if the parent puts the child in a dangerous situation without taking measures to protect the child. No gear + bicycle helmet on a motorcycle, would that qualify?

[Alex]

In this particular video, she's not wearing an approved helmet, so it would be a pretty easy case for someone to make, I imagine.

[alex.s]

definition of asshat right there.

[deeno415]

Originally Posted by verboten1

I think my son was in kindergarten when he started riding with me. So, that's about 5 years old or so. He is a great passenger, he's been doing it for 8+ years!

Originally Posted by Alex

@deeno415 - what you've shared is the opinion of the CHP, but it's not the law. Here's all the law says:



There is no link that law or in 27360 that directly relates a motorcycle passenger to the child restraint seat requirements or anything else. Personally, I don't think their guidelines are a bad idea, and they seem relatively reasonable. But as far as I can tell, it's not the law.

I understand what you are saying...

I think, if CHP or local PD can issue you a citation then there is some law regarding this.

From what I know of this video, it was in South Africa and the local authorities are trying to locate this individual.

I just felt really horrible for the little girl... did you see the look on her face at the end of the video?! She looks terrified!

[Alex]

Originally Posted by deeno415

I understand what you are saying...

I think, if CHP or local PD can issue you a citation then there is some law regarding this.

Nope, that's not how it works. The laws that apply are the ones that you listed, and they don't have those specifics. It's just like the lane-splitting topic though, where it comes down to an individual officer's own judgment on whether something is being done safely or not. It's not explicitly illegal, just like it's not illegal to have a 3 year-old on the back of a bike, assuming they have the legally required helmet and have their feet resting on the passenger pegs.

Legal doesn't equal wise, and wise doesn't equal legal.

[BlueRaven]

Originally Posted by deeno415

@Alex
As of January 1st, 2012 that law will be modified to require child restraints be used up to the age of 8 or until a child reaches 4'9" in height.

Yikes 4'9" in height. I remember i was that height when i was 14-15.

[akima]

That's horrifying. That poor kid; to have a father like that.

[Snake]

That poor girl is going to be scarred for life.

[fishdip]

I don't think she is 3 more like 4-5 my son who just turn 3 has rode on the back of my bike just fine. Now racing off like that I think is the child endangerment part.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by akima

..........That poor kid.....

That girl is going to be a fast rider !!!

I agree, the speed was excessive.
I started riding as a passenger at five, but my father was never that fast while carrying me.
I did grab him very well and never had any problem, raining or not.
I believe that no kid would let go and fall under normal speeds and G forces, most are smart and will-strong.

[akima]

Originally Posted by Motofool

That girl is going to be a fast rider !!!

I agree, the speed was excessive.
I started riding as a passenger at five, but my father was never that fast while carrying me.
I did grab him very well and never had any problem, raining or not.
I believe that no kid would let go and fall under normal speeds and G forces, most are smart and will-strong.

More than just the speed:

Bicycle helmet.

No proper gear for her body.

She's tiny.

[deeno415]

Originally Posted by akima

She's tiny.

Who? @BlueRaven? JK!

Seriously though... maybe I'm just the overcautious dad, my daughter is 10 and I would never do what this dad did!

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by akima

More than just the speed:

Bicycle helmet.

No proper gear for her body.

She's tiny.

Yes, that is true.

However, riding with a little passenger should be done in a way that any accident or fall is as remote as winning the lottery.
That includes moderate speed, light traffic, good road surface, good weather, smooth maneuvers, proper signaling, etc.

Maybe proper gear and helmet become less useful riding with the Dad of the vid.
The attitude and judgement of the rider can overpower skills, protection and luck,............... in both directions.

[akima]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Maybe proper gear and helmet become less useful riding with the Dad of the vid.
The attitude and judgement of the rider can overpower skills, protection and luck,............... in both directions.

I'm not sure what you mean. (I'm pretty tired!)

[LNasty]

This is why it took me 20+ years to get my first bike. Brother-in-law took me on his ninja zx-750 back in 1988. I had on no helmet and was wearing safety goggles for eye protection. Literally scared a nugget out of my green neon jams (anyone who grew up in the 80's will know what these were).

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by akima

I'm not sure what you mean. (I'm pretty tired!)

"Dress for the fall, not for the ride", as the saying goes.
Crashing or falling while riding with a little one is not an option.

Good night, Akima !!!

[akima]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Good night, Akima !!!

Ok, night

[RedPepper64]

That poor child! Our daughter got a helmet for her 5th birthday and a ride around the block. She has been raised around motorcycles all her life and at 6 years old, we still haven't taken her out on anything other than residential streets.

As for the law pertaining child restraint seats, we spoke with the HP and local PD who both agreed the law is a gray area. The child restraint law requires kids in WA to be in the seats until 5 years of age and 40 lbs. Motorcycle law just states it must be safe. Upon queried, both officers agreed that one could feasibly attach a child restraint seat onto the back of the bike and be complying within the letter of the law! Scary...

[GreenNinja]

In the state of Georgia, there is no age restriction on the passenger. It only says the passenger has to be able to touch the foot pegs. It looks like the same also applies in California.

[ChaoSS]

@Alex, not to be argumentative, but the law clearly states that the child must be in an approved safety seat in any motor vehicle. It does not make exception for motorcycles, unless I miss something.


Completely different from lane splitting, where the act is legal, but doing it in a dangerous manner is not.

[Alex]

Sorry @ChaoSS, but that's incorrect. When you read the law, it defines motor vehicle as:

(c) (1) As used in this section, "motor vehicle" means a passenger vehicle, a motortruck, or a truck tractor, but does not include a motorcycle.

Here's the section on Child Passenger Restraint system:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc27360.htm

Which refers to this section when it defines motor vehicle:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc27315.htm

[ChaoSS]

Strange, I've been through all this before and missed it.


I wonder if they miscited it, it says paragraph (1) or subdivision (3), wonder if they mean (c), because otherwise it doesn't seem to make any sense whatsoever.

[Asspire]

'merica




a R6 rider would never do this.

[akima]

If a parent needs a law to force them to safely transport their child, then the child has no hope even if the law is successful. You can't force responsible and moral parenting.