So Excited!!!!!

[Mrs.D]

I passed the MSP (MSF) Course, never riding before the course started or drove anything with a manual transmittion. Boy was I a nervous wreck. I'm so excited to have my motorcycle license and to learn more about riding and being safe on a motorcycle. Don't worry I won't be joining the gerneral population on the road untill I practice alot more.

Love To All & Safe Riding,
Mrs. D

[LazinCajun]

Congrats!

Having just under 160 miles under my belt, I can relate to the feeling. Parking lot and back-road time seems invaluble.

Stay safe

[g21-30]

Way to go! Find a vacant parking lot and practice, practice, and practice.

[edwinmcq]

Good job. Be safe and get some good gear.

[Tigress]

Good for you!! It's such an exhilarating feeling!!

[noche_caliente]

Congratulations!

[lockie]

It's neat ah. Congratulations!

[Anthony_marr]

Congrats!

If I may offer just one suggestion, and that is: Master counter-steering for medium-high speed turns, i.e. steer left to go right, steer right to go left. Push right handlebar forward to go right, push left handlebar forward to go left. May sound wrong, but it's not. Counting on weight transfer to lean the bike won't cut it, and you will go wide and crash. If you already know this, tell other newbies. Many of them do not know counter-steering, and many have crashed because of it. When you are the process of mastering it, it is somewhat counter-intuitive and requires a conscious effort. Once you have mastered it, it will be second nature, and you will love it.

Very slow speed parking-lot maneuvers won't teach you counter-steering too well. It has to be at some speed on some twisties. Have fun, and be safe, and counter-steering is first of all a safety technique - to keep you on the road.

[kkim]

Aloha and welcome, Tammy.

Practice and wear your gear at all times when riding the bike... at least during the first 6 months.

[ninjabrewer]

Originally Posted by Anthony_marr

Congrats!

If I may offer just one suggestion, and that is: Master counter-steering for medium-high speed turns, i.e. steer left to go right, steer right to go left. Push right handlebar forward to go right, push left handlebar forward to go left. May sound wrong, but it's not. Counting on weight transfer to lean the bike won't cut it, and you will go wide and crash. If you already know this, tell other newbies. Many of them do not know counter-steering, and many have crashed because of it. When you are the process of mastering it, it is somewhat counter-intuitive and requires a conscious effort. Once you have mastered it, it will be second nature, and you will love it.

Very slow speed parking-lot maneuvers won't teach you counter-steering too well. It has to be at some speed on some twisties. Have fun, and be safe, and counter-steering is first of all a safety technique - to keep you on the road.

OK, I may be confused on the counter steering thing. When I was in MSF, they taught to push down on the side you want to turn. I have found that pushing forward does the same. Is this what is refered to as counter-steering?

nb

[LazinCajun]

Originally Posted by ninjabrewer

OK, I may be confused on the counter steering thing. When I was in MSF, they taught to push down on the side you want to turn. I have found that pushing forward does the same. Is this what is refered to as counter-steering?

nb

Exactly correct. It isn't as mystical as it sounds though! The countersteer creates the lean. The motorcycle does actually turn the way the handlebars are turned, but that tends to come naturally once you're leaned over from countersteering. It might sound confusing, but it feels pretty natural after a little practice
Posted via Mobile Device

[Alex]

Originally Posted by ninjabrewer

When I was in MSF, they taught to push down on the side you want to turn. I have found that pushing forward does the same.

What the rider is trying to do is turn the front forks slightly to the outside of the turn. Pushing down isn't really pushing the bike down, it's moving the steering, and the bike leans in the appropriate direction right away. What's really happening is that pushing down is applying some force in the pushing forward direction.

As you may have already found out, pushing forward works even better, as there is not wasted energy pushing the bars down where they can't really move. That's why people are always told to keep their arms bent and loose, rather than straightarming to the bars; the more bent they are when you are leaned over, the more flat they are, making any directional input much more forward/back than up/down. Saves energy, makes for easier and more precise steering inputs.

[edwinmcq]

I took about 25 years off from riding. One thing that I found very helpful was reading about certain techniques and strategies. I think this helps reduce your stress level by allowing you to visualize events before they actually happen, much like any type of "sports visualization".

Here are a few books I really enjoyed and continue to browse:

1) Proficient Motorcycling: The Ultimate Guide to Riding Well (Paperback)
by David L. Hough

2) Ride Hard, Ride Smart: Ultimate Street Strategies for Advanced Motorcyclists (Paperback) by Patrick Hahn

3) A Twist of the Wrist 2: The Basics of High-Performance Motorcycle Riding (Paperback)
by Keith Code.

Keith Code's book has a lot of information about the physics of riding and cornering do's / don'ts.

If any one would like a PDF version of the Code book just send me an off-line email. My email is at my website.

[Alex]

All good recommendations! A few more are up in this sticky thread.

[ninjabrewer]

Originally Posted by LazinCajun

Exactly correct. It isn't as mystical as it sounds though! The countersteer creates the lean. The motorcycle does actually turn the way the handlebars are turned, but that tends to come naturally once you're leaned over from countersteering. It might sound confusing, but it feels pretty natural after a little practice
Posted via Mobile Device

Thats what I thought. Been doing since I used to race bicycles.

Originally Posted by Alex

What the rider is trying to do is turn the front forks slightly to the outside of the turn. Pushing down isn't really pushing the bike down, it's moving the steering, and the bike leans in the appropriate direction right away. What's really happening is that pushing down is applying some force in the pushing forward direction.

As you may have already found out, pushing forward works even better, as there is not wasted energy pushing the bars down where they can't really move. That's why people are always told to keep their arms bent and loose, rather than straightarming to the bars; the more bent they are when you are leaned over, the more flat they are, making any directional input much more forward/back than up/down. Saves energy, makes for easier and more precise steering inputs.

And that is what I have been doing. Just don't remember the instructor calling in counter-steering. Been doing all along and didn't know it. I remember doing it on a bicycle oh so many years ago when I used to live on a multi-speed road bike.

nb

[edwinmcq]

Originally Posted by Alex

All good recommendations! A few more are up in this sticky thread.

Thanks Alex. I didn't know that was up there. I still have about 8700 posts unread I can't seem to catch up!

[Tigress]

Originally Posted by edwinmcq

I took about 25 years off from riding. One thing that I found very helpful was reading about certain techniques and strategies. I think this helps reduce your stress level by allowing you to visualize events before they actually happen, much like any type of "sports visualization".

That is so true. I've been a reading fool since I started riding in May. It helped me to visualize me riding properly. It also helped me to realize that I needed a smaller bike to start on. Now things feel so much better.

[BlueTyke]

Whoot Congrats!

[cwb48]

The physics explanation for why countersteering works the way it does is that the same force is at work that keeps the bike upright and very stable at even low speeds- the gyroscopic force generated by the spinning wheels. If you have ever done the simple experiment with a spinning bicycle wheel of holding the axel and trying to push the wheel in one direction or the other, you will understand this immediately. The wheel pushes back, and tries to go in the opposite direction! On the moving motorcycle, this translates into a lean in the opposite direction that you "push" the bars. As has been noted here, the countersteer is used to initiate the turn. Once the bike is leaned over, the bars are essentially straight again. If you look closely at photos in racing magazines and bike tests, you can actually see the front wheel turned very slightly in the opposite direction of the turn when the lean is being started.

Incidentally, this is one reason why locking the brakes on a motorcycle is so dangerous- all of that gyroscopic stability is instantly lost. Good ABS, as on the new CBR600 ABS, will save a lot of grief for the riders fortunate to have it on their bikes.

Chris

[Alex]

While the gyroscopic forces certainly have a contributing effect, most folks have determined that the primary reason the bike starts to lean is simply the weight of the bike causing it to once the front wheel tracks outside of straight ahead. That's what we are seeing in those photos and those slow-mo video shots of the front wheel pointed outside of the turn itself (turned left in the beginning portions of a right turn). Check out the math in this wikipedia entry on countersteering, and scroll down to the Gyroscopic Effects section. The actual forces provided by the gyro effect and the ground effect are calculated out, and in their example the gyro effect is about 12% of the ground effect. It's significant, but minor.

[Snake]

Congratulations on passing the course. Where is leesport?

[cwb48]

Alex, while we can disagree about the contribution of the gyroscopic effect to countersteer physics, I will note this quotation from the wiki article you referenced:

"While the moment from gyroscopic forces is only 12% of this, it can play a significant part because it begins to act as soon as the rider applies the torque, instead of building up more slowly as the wheel out-tracks. This can be especially helpful in motorcycle racing."

In any event, all riders should be aware of these forces at work on a 2 wheeled vehicle. Many crashes occur because the rider locks the brakes, falls down and possible initiates a violent high side, when if he understood quick countersteering maneuvers he may have been able to avoid the collision altogether. It's hard to prepare for this type of situation, but a little knowledge can't hurt.

Chris

[websniper]

Originally Posted by LazinCajun

Exactly correct. It isn't as mystical as it sounds though! The countersteer creates the lean. The motorcycle does actually turn the way the handlebars are turned, but that tends to come naturally once you're leaned over from countersteering. It might sound confusing, but it feels pretty natural after a little practice
Posted via Mobile Device

Definitely get Proficient Motorcycling as suggest by edwin, it does an excellent job of explaining counter steering.

[Sailariel]

Been countersteering for years bicycle racing--sort of do it intuitively on the Ninjette. Definitely the way to go.

[paterick4o8]

congrats

if you join ROK, Riders of Kawasaki, on Kawasaki's website, they'll send you a $50 gift certificate when you send them your MSF certificate saying you passed.

You get some other nice perks, and it only costs about $40 a year so you get your money back

[Mrs.D]

Leesport is in PA

[Mrs.D]

Thanks a bunch. I'm reading proficient motorcycling already.

[Anthony_marr]

Originally Posted by ninjabrewer

OK, I may be confused on the counter steering thing. When I was in MSF, they taught to push down on the side you want to turn. I have found that pushing forward does the same. Is this what is refered to as counter-steering?

nb

At speeds higher than 25 mph or so, using body-weight for leaning is no longer sufficient (as in lower speeds). You need active and conscious counter-steering - a deliberate pushing forward (slightly down I guess) of the right handle-bar to go right, left handle-bar to go left - at least to initiate the body lean for the turn.

Here are counter-steering maneuvers to various degrees:









And a quick lesson:



Without counter-steering, you cannot execute tight curves at speed, and will go wide off the road.

And it is the most fun thing to do in motorcycling other than sheer acceleration and speed.

[camaroz1985]

Leesport, PA? I know a couple guys from there, race cars with them. Also remember going there with my grandparents when I was younger to the farmer's market.

Congratulations on passing the course.

[minuslars]

Watch this for a more dramatic example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP20XTbeJvg