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Old September 10th, 2020, 08:01 PM   #1
Alanclark
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2006 ninja 250 bogged down at high speed and sometimes low speeds

hey everyone so I bought a 2006 ninja 250 about a month ago and it immediately had some issues, initially a wire was off for the spark plug but my buddy fixed it up and it started up fine, we had to drain the gas tank aswell due to pieces of something bouncing around but we got it out. Following that it would die out often at low speeds but was great at high speeds.

I recently got the carburetors cleaned and rebuilt and it was working fine until recently I was on the highway with some buddies and the bike bogged down and eventually died like i ran out of gas but it was full. Since then I added a fuel filter, and ordered a new fuel petcock, and a k&n air filter which hasn't come in yet. I rode it today with the filter and it only bogged down once around 15 to 20 mph and seemed fine on the highway at about 90 but I was only on it for a short period.

I'm going to check tonight after work if there is a vaccum leak of any kind as well. Wondering if anyone could help me out on what might be causing this? Thanks

UPDATE: I was checking out the carbs and had found a major vacuum leak on the airbox boots. I had incorrectly installed the carbs after rebuild and the spring meant to keep it tight wasnt in place.i took them out and get it all nice and snug. I will take it for a spin tomorrow and see if she gets up to top speed again

Update 2: still happening, just as bad, hit the high way and struggled to maintain 70 mph

Last futzed with by Alanclark; September 14th, 2020 at 09:02 AM.
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Old September 10th, 2020, 10:33 PM   #2
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Hi Alan and welcome to Ninjette!

Could be many things causing you out-of-petrol symptoms. Could be pinched or leaking vacuum line going to petcock. Could be clogged fuel-line between petcock and carbs. We'd have to measure vacuum-level in that line to know for sure since diagnosing things across internet is difficult without numbers. Same with petcock flow-rate when sufficient vacuum is applied.

Did you find factory internal filter in fuel-line or inlet of carbs? Usually good idea to remove it and replace with external in-line filter so you can monitor it.

It may very well come back to getting carbs "cleaned". With these bikes, that's like saying I got engine "rebuilt". It's not binary thing. Depending upon who you take it to and what procedure they used and how well they did it, you may get back perfect carbs & engine, or it's worse than when you brought it in.

Do search here for "clean carbs ducatiman" to see what's really required to fully restore carbs to factory-fresh condition. Personally I think it's much easier to completely rebuild engines than to truly restore carbs.
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Old September 10th, 2020, 10:46 PM   #3
Alanclark
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Thank you! And thank you for getting back to me! I bought a rebuild kit and planned on doing it with my friend who's done it before but he was busy so I decided to bring it to a mechanic. I'm pretty new to this stuff its my first bike but assuming he used the kit all the parts inside should be new. As for the factory internal fuel filter I did not find one. Just added the external following the bogging. Just cleaned and re oiled the air filter. And checked for vacuum leaks. Idle didn't change at all spray carbs with cleaner. I'm gonna give it another ride tomorrow and see if it persists.

On a side note prior to today, the day before adding the fuel filter I took it for a spin and it actually backfired a few times and it was excessively loud. I read this has to due with too much air not enough gas? Hopefully when I replace the petcock it helps as well, may have **** stuck in it after draining the tank when I first got it.

Thanks again!
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Old September 11th, 2020, 05:22 AM   #4
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you're on the right track. A "new to you" bike with debris in the tank requires attention to the entire fuel system....tank, petcock and carbs.

Beyond simply replacing carb parts, there is more. Establishing the present vs. factory jetting spec, eliminating previous "mods", fully servicing the oft ignored float system....meanwhile cleaning components restoring factory original clearances.

Assure the petcock screens are present, disassemble (both front and rear sections) and assure passageways are truly clear.

The 250 allows access to install the inline filter, as @DannoXYZ suggested.
But it all depends on the baseline...adequate fuel reaching truly clean correctly setup carbs. And these 250's especially sensitive to valve clearances. Correctly serviced spark plug wires, terminals within caps.... it ALL works together and all requires revue on that bike new to you. Eliminate any inherited errors or deficiencies.
Frankly, I'd start with a valve clearance check, then working outwards.
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Old September 11th, 2020, 05:25 AM   #5
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Unfortunately, a sure way to screw up carburetors is to buy a rebuild kit that contains non-Keihin parts and install the kit.
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Old September 11th, 2020, 05:39 AM   #6
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valid point. Absolute variations in "copycats" justify restoration and reuse of original tuning components. With automatic replacement of *all* consumables.
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Old September 11th, 2020, 07:17 AM   #7
Alanclark
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I never thought of the kit making it potentially worse but it makes sense if it's imitation, it was an all balls kit not sure if that makes it any better? I will look into the valve checks but im not extremely excited about taking it all apart like that. Only has around 14k miles
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Old September 11th, 2020, 07:44 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alanclark View Post
I never thought of the kit making it potentially worse but it makes sense if it's imitation, it was an all balls kit not sure if that makes it any better? I will look into the valve checks but im not extremely excited about taking it all apart like that. Only has around 14k miles
At 14k miles it should have been through the valve procedure at least twice. I put the valve clearance check as first on the list when I acquired mine. The exhaust valves on these are a bit hard to adjust and some shops skip it. That was the case with mine - I almost 100% sure.
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Old September 11th, 2020, 08:26 AM   #9
Alanclark
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Thank you everyone for replying, I adjusted the idle mixture screws and took it for a short spin and its run better then it has before. Hopefully that's all it takes
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Old September 11th, 2020, 08:29 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alanclark View Post
I never thought of the kit making it potentially worse but it makes sense if it's imitation, it was an all balls kit not sure if that makes it any better? I will look into the valve checks but im not extremely excited about taking it all apart like that. Only has around 14k miles
You can usually tell if they're genuine Keihin by a close examination of the jets to see if they have the Keihin markings on them. In my experience, motorcycle carburetor rebuild kits never have original manufacturer parts in them.
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Old September 11th, 2020, 10:58 AM   #11
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A recent experience...received inexpensive copycat carb kits for Yamaha Banshee ATV ...ordered because I needed gaskets/orings but also received main, pilot jets and needles......totally UNMARKED as to sizes. Installing unknown sized tuning components on a guess? No way.
I opted to restore/reuse Mikuni originals.
I could have measured, compared...but an unnecessary process with unmolested, confirmed correct, restored originals in hand. Not worth the gamble, I returned all the unused, unknown kit peripherals to the owner with the explanation.

You can not visually determine comparative tiny jet sizes..and AFA using unmarked? Even if the bike does run ok (but will it?) ...what about the next owner or poor sucker who gets to work on the carbs 5-10 years from now? A future trouble causing guessing game. Advisable to use only OEM marked components....established, marked and known as to size reference and correct application.

FWIW...YMMV....my .02
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Old September 11th, 2020, 11:09 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducatiman View Post
A recent experience...received inexpensive copycat carb kits for Yamaha Banshee ATV ...ordered because I needed gaskets/orings but also received main, pilot jets and needles......totally UNMARKED as to sizes. Installing unknown sized tuning components on a guess? No way.
I opted to restore/reuse Mikuni originals.
I could have measured, compared...but an unnecessary process with unmolested, confirmed correct, restored originals in hand. Not worth the gamble, I returned all the unused, unknown kit peripherals to the owner with the explanation.

You can not visually determine comparative tiny jet sizes..and AFA using unmarked? Even if the bike does run ok (but will it?) ...what about the next owner or poor sucker who gets to work on the carbs 5-10 years from now? A future trouble causing guessing game. Advisable to use only OEM marked components....established, marked and known as to size reference and correct application.

FWIW...YMMV....my .02
Thank you, sir. One of your similar post made me throw the unmarked brand new ones, coming with the kit into the garbage can. I confirmed mine were OEM and marked as per the spec. Cleaned them all up and so far no regrets as the cycle runs well after my carb cleaning. All the rubber stuff however was replaced with those from the kit.
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Old September 11th, 2020, 11:18 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alanclark View Post
Thank you everyone for replying, I adjusted the idle mixture screws and took it for a short spin and its run better then it has before. Hopefully that's all it takes
Sorry to contradict, but at 14K...a valve clearance check is vital. For all you know (unless you've got service history) its never been done per the recommended maintenance schedule.

If NOT done...valves/seats can burn, lost compression (performance) and reliability the long term result. Bending valve or cam damage terrible scenario.

IF DONE....you'll be instantly rewarded with a reliable, fine starting, idling accelerating machine with both predictable performance and fuel economy.
Reliability in the long term as well.

Yes, its a service toughie...but really worth the effort. Don't blow it off.

Ugh, and don't ever buy a Ducati with the desmodromic (valve system) ......scheduled valve checks absolutely imperative! Though an involved task!
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Old September 11th, 2020, 11:27 AM   #14
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When I got it, my 250 had hard starting, slow warmup, and wanted to idle at either about 400 rpm or 4,000 rpm, but nothing between. A valve adjustment completely cured it without touching the carburetors.
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Old September 12th, 2020, 08:52 PM   #15
Alanclark
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I will do the valves once it is too cold to ride anymore, hopefully eliminating the leak on the back of the carbs did the trick
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