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Old June 18th, 2022, 02:39 PM   #81
petrolhead
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Does anyone else have a checklist they go thru before heading out to track? I do.

The big toolbox.
Box with parts, fluids, rags.
Cover for bike
Helmet
Suit
Gloves
Under shirt and pants
Extra pair of socks
Boots
Ear plugs
Consumables, locking pins, balance weights, fasteners, connectors, tyre valves etc.
Zip ties. Lots of zip ties.
Towel for cooling
Water tank
Loading ramp and the wooden adapter for it.
Fuel
Cash
2 tie down straps/bike
Front & rear wheel stand per bike
Extension chords
2 Tyre warmers per bike
Backpack w/ cameras, laptiming cell phone, GPS receiver, chargers.
Sewing kit

Thats not even a complete list. .
Apart from that the van has basic camping gear on board. I installed an inverter to power the tyre warmers, or use a microwave oven or coffeemaker.
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Old June 18th, 2022, 07:33 PM   #82
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I've got checklist here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/1qodQ...letype=msexcel
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Old June 19th, 2022, 06:39 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
What ever I do, you seem to have taken it a step further.

Finnish tracks are located in the middle of nowhere pretty much. Especially for overnight tracks days I try to have with me everything possible. Like that sewing kit . I once had a seam come apart from my glove's finger. There's a million very small things that can cut your track time short. Track riding weekends are rare and precious around here.
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Old June 19th, 2022, 01:06 PM   #84
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Link to original page on YouTube.

He took it pretty easy, just getting a feel for a semi new track. Opened last year. And yes, they named it Daytona Circuit .

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Old June 19th, 2022, 04:35 PM   #85
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Ooh, what fun!!! I love new tracks! So smooth and fast!!!

Good idea on sewing-kit, I've had seams come undone. Hence spare suit. Added to my list w/kevlar thread.

CA tracks are often in middle of nowhere (cheap land?). So I usually bring everything I can possibly need. If I don't have spare with me, it's guaranteed that part will fail on me!!!
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Old June 21st, 2022, 12:25 AM   #86
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I've been debating myself whether or not to buy an extra engine/box package. There's one reasonably priced on offer with about 6000 miles on it.
Plan would be to install the low mileage engine as is, and repair/check/tune the "old engine". The bike would be rideable when I run into problems/delays/budget conserns with building.

My reasoning is, that at some point the engine will say "no more", living it's life between 10-13000.
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Old June 21st, 2022, 07:56 AM   #87
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Just discovered this thread. Epic. You guys are my heroes.

Danny, your knowledge of this bike is remarkable and your attempt to extract every ounce of performance from it is really fun reading for a guy like me who is essentially an idiot mechanically.

I've got an 08 I bought new and have been on the same path as you since I bought it - extract as much performance from it as is possible, with an emphasis on lightening the bike wherever possible, costs be damned. Unlike yours, mine is a street ride (I live in North Carolina and have world class roads out my front door). I took her out for a 200 mile blast yesterday and was reminded again why I love this little bike so much: as I tell folks, its not fast - a hundred tops - but you can go EVERYWHERE at 100. Interestingly enough, two days ago I had taken out my 749 with a lot of goodies on it like magnesium wheels, full termi, worked suspension and came home thinking it just couldn't get any better than that, only to hop on my 250 yesterday and realize, yes it can.

While riding I stopped off at a friends work where they have an industrial floor scale and weighed the bike with a completely full tank: 320 lbs, which I calculate backwards to 288 lb (130.6 kg) dry weight. This is with all the stock street stuff.

As for power, I'm not sure what I'm making these days, but it definitely feels the equal of my stock RC390 which puts out +/- 43 rear wheel hp with an open airbox, werkes pipe, PCV and tune. If truth be told, it actually feels a bit faster at the top end. I'm not sure how that is with an engine that puts out 27hp stock. Ive had the head ported and polished, JE 13:1 pistons, BRT ignition, AP header with Jardine GP endcan, stock carbs rejetted to match.

I'm thinking I can get even less weight and more performance by replacing the current wheels - Galespeed Type 2 forged aluminum 3.0 front, 4.0 rear (7.27 lbs/9.6lbs) with either BST CF wheels (front 4.95 lbs/rear 8.8 lbs) or Marchesini Corse Moto 3 Magnesum wheels (5.3 kgs per pair). The extra benefit of the Moto 3 wheels is they'd allow me to run Dunlop Moto 3 slicks
(90/80-17 front, 115/80-17 rear) which would significantly reduce tire weight. I've yet to have anyone tell me that the Moto3 Marchesinis are capable of being fitted to an 08 250.

Anyway, enough of this digression. Thanks to both of you for this exceptional thread. You guys rock.

Last futzed with by James Page; June 21st, 2022 at 05:12 PM. Reason: remove bad link
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Old June 21st, 2022, 03:04 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petrolhead View Post
I've been debating myself whether or not to buy an extra engine/box package. There's one reasonably priced on offer with about 6000 miles on it.
Plan would be to install the low mileage engine as is, and repair/check/tune the "old engine". The bike would be rideable when I run into problems/delays/budget conserns with building.

My reasoning is, that at some point the engine will say "no more", living it's life between 10-13000.
That's good idea! I was considering doing that and upgrading engine at same time. But AFM frowns on anything non-stock, so I gave up.

Now I'm racing with ASMA and they're much more relaxed. Anything's fair-game as long as you're under displacement-limit for class. There's even an Aprilia RS250 with Suzuki RGV-250 engine swap! I'm thinking of building buff Ninja 350 engine now (smallest class)... or going 2-stroke... hmmm....

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Old June 21st, 2022, 11:03 PM   #89
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James Page, you're quite welcome and thanks for the kind words. Your bike sounds like an interestind setup.

The stuff I do is building basics 101. I'm a VW mechanic and a life long car enthusiast. I probably won't recognize many parts once I open a bikes box casing.
Less weight, more grip, better controls works in cars and bikes alike.
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Old June 22nd, 2022, 12:39 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
That's good idea! I was considering doing that and upgrading engine at same time. But AFM frowns on anything non-stock, so I gave up.

Now I'm racing with ASMA and they're much more relaxed. Anything's fair-game as long as you're under displacement-limit for class. There's even an Aprilia RS250 with Suzuki RGV-250 engine swap! I'm thinking of building buff Ninja 350 engine now (smallest class)... or going 2-stroke... hmmm....
I dont have a clear plan about how to go about tuning this engine. I'd have ample time to take it apart, take measurements about actual compression ratio, piston to deck clearance, valve to piston distances, familiarize myself with the timing gear's possibilities and limitations.. see what the head is like and consider the porting/exhaust/inlet stuff changes from there.
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Old June 22nd, 2022, 07:04 AM   #91
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From just reading about these engines' properties: retarding the intake cam, putting an intake cam on the exh side and some neat exhaust manifold (without cat) might be a stage 1 solution. I understand that the block base gasket can be left out to get tighter squish/tiny bit more compression? If one were to use a sealing compound that probably equals a 0,01-0,05mm gasket.
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Old June 23rd, 2022, 01:03 AM   #92
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I made this a while back. Although it's in finnish you probably get the idea. I'm not much of an IT guy so it took some effort to get it calculating properly.
Attached Files
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Old June 25th, 2022, 03:25 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Good idea on sewing-kit, I've had seams come undone. Hence spare suit. Added to my list w/kevlar thread.
Your check list was most useful. Added electrolyte powder to my list.

Link to original page on YouTube.

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Old June 25th, 2022, 04:19 AM   #94
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Very cool.
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Old June 25th, 2022, 05:32 AM   #95
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Thanks. Im risking it a bit, I ordered +1T rear sprocket. See if the rear tyre still fits. By my calculation I need to move it 8mm forward from current position. If not, longer chain. Hopefully the current chain will be OK, I'd want to keep it in the short wheelbase mode. With the new 48T it would rev 12200 /12100 on straights on our hometrack plus ofcourse pull a bit better out of shikanes. It's a 2nd/3rd gear small, very twisty track.
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Old June 25th, 2022, 10:51 AM   #96
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Thanks James! You've got awesome build, I've gotten some inspiration & ideas from it!

You can pretty much fit any wheels you want:

1. custom spacers to mount wheels centred.
2. adjust sprocket-carrier to line up chain
3. custom brake caliper brackets

I like the Moto3 wheels. Super light for small slicks. I might be ready for them in year or two.
I'm looking at these perhaps: https://blackstonetek.com/wp-content...file_email.pdf

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Old June 28th, 2022, 10:23 AM   #97
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So the thermostat housing leaks from mid seam (between the halves). Nearest Kawasaki dealership said "next week", oh well. With cars I've dicked around with enough non OEM thermostats to know they don't often work. One of those parts that you want to buy original.
Seems the 48T sprocket won't arrive before saturday either (next planned riding day). Oh the 1st world problems.

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Old June 29th, 2022, 06:13 AM   #98
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This arrived on time. Interesting info sticker for future reference. Should I be looking for sprockets, those bikes apparently share the bolt pattern and center hole.
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Old June 29th, 2022, 10:32 AM   #99
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Seems to fit! I ground the swing arm inside bits like Danno to be on the safe side.
47->48T is about 300rpm more on straights and maybe 200 higher minimum revs pulling out of slow turns.
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Old June 29th, 2022, 04:06 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by petrolhead View Post
Seems to fit! I ground the swing arm inside bits like Danno to be on the safe side.
47->48T is about 300rpm more on straights and maybe 200 higher minimum revs pulling out of slow turns.
Woohoo!!! That's awesome!!!
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Old June 29th, 2022, 04:12 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by petrolhead View Post
This arrived on time. Interesting info sticker for future reference. Should I be looking for sprockets, those bikes apparently share the bolt pattern and center hole.
Here's how you find compatible sprockets:

1. download JT's sprocket catalogue.

2. look up Ninja 250 and find it uses JTR486 sprocket, search through catalogue for "JTR486" and it shows all other models that use it. Apparently lots of newer 400s as well.

3. look for specs on JTR486 sprocket... hmmm, same PCD as bicycles. Do I see 410 chain/sprocket conversion here???? Save another 3-4kg and just have to replace chain & sprockets every day @ track!
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Old July 1st, 2022, 01:57 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post

....Great job on bike, your son is so lucky!
I just remembered this comment. For me, it's great fun and a privilege. Being the main sponsor, chief designer, mechanic, pit crew, photographer, catering chef, physiotherapist, truck driver.. just fun. Can't explain it. Enabling my son to focus solely on the riding part, everything else taken care of on trackside.
I do encourage him to take part in the wrenching at home and luckily he does. I tell him that understanding the inner workings of the machine makes a better driver/rider.

July 2nd edit.. he posted his season best laptime on 2 stints. The best times he's done without someone giving a mental tow in front.

Last futzed with by petrolhead; July 2nd, 2022 at 10:08 AM.
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Old July 2nd, 2022, 10:40 AM   #103
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I instructed him not even to hunt for a laptime, just try to find confidence in the tyres' grip (now that it was a hot day). And I told him to practice hanging off the bike. Takes a lot repetition and viewing videos but he'll get there.
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Old July 2nd, 2022, 10:01 PM   #104
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Yup, lots of repetition and many, many laps!
Seen that doc "Winning" about Paul Newman?
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Old July 3rd, 2022, 12:51 AM   #105
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I haven't seen that actually.

Funny thing, gearing. I swear I could hear the difference in revs / the speed of rising revs with bigger rear sprocket. Although it's just a 2,1% change to overall ratios. Ofcourse if the engine power curve slumps down low, small change in the rev range used could be significant. The rider reported noticeably better pull out of the slowest chikane.

Thermostat didn't seem to leak. It was a +30°C day. That sometimes happens with cooling system parts. Heat makes all seals more elastic, and the pressure pushes them to seal better. Some car water pumps only leak when it's freezing and the engine's cold.

Last futzed with by petrolhead; July 3rd, 2022 at 08:41 AM.
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Old July 3rd, 2022, 04:48 PM   #106
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Yeah, optimising gearing really helps. I usually set to redline in top-gear at end of fastest straight. Even with 25% more power than stock, I usually lower gearing by -10-15%. Depending upon track.
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Old July 3rd, 2022, 11:33 PM   #107
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We haven't run in to the limiter on 6th. With the current gearing it should be fine for the tracks that we'll be visiting. Now the top gear limited top speed is 151km/h.

Video, racechrono data and my eye all agree that he's leaning the bike few degrees less now than previous season. Hanging off does help. And ofcourse with a lighter bike one's body position has greater effect.

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Old July 4th, 2022, 03:25 AM   #108
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I put this on order, see what we get.
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Old July 4th, 2022, 06:52 AM   #109
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In the United States engine parts and stuff like that are way, way cheaper. But.. add shipping cost, customs (what ever they decide to charge, import tariffs are a lottery) and VAT. Not worth it anymore.
That engine is from Poland which is an EU country like Finland.
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Old July 8th, 2022, 10:12 AM   #110
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I decided that I must test the track at Akaa myself. The fast section looks very tricky. Can't give riding instructions if I haven't ridden it myself.
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Old July 8th, 2022, 04:03 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by petrolhead View Post
I decided that I must test the track at Akaa myself. The fast section looks very tricky. Can't give riding instructions if I haven't ridden it myself.
Woohoo!!! Father & Son team on track!!!

I encountred 3-generation team from Canada recently at new Attesa track. Grandfather was awesome racer. So's dad and 12-yr old Jake was kicking ass!!!

Link to original page on YouTube.

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Old July 8th, 2022, 10:03 PM   #112
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You have a lot of tracks to choose from .
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Old July 9th, 2022, 02:33 AM   #113
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Video or even viewing trackside doesn't do justice to the very sudden elevation changes at Akaa track. Jeez.

..aand my son has 3 seconds on me there. Speed data comparison was cruel. I will not be posting that. Racechrono is a good tool, enables comparing laps between different stints while at the pits. Our weight difference doesn't explain 1/10 of the speed difference.
My boy improved his personal best by 0,11 seconds. I'll upload the video later.
I got a set of Michelin Power Cups and Bridgestone R11:s, medium for free ! Yay. Used for about one race.
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Old July 9th, 2022, 02:00 PM   #114
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Link to original page on YouTube.

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Old July 10th, 2022, 01:29 PM   #115
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Does anyone have hot pressure recommendations for above mentioned tyres?
I found some values, but if you can recommend from experience that'd be appreciated.

futz: the racer's awesome father who gave us the tyres said Bstone 2.1 & 1.8, Michelin 1.95 & 1.65 hot. That's for a 400 race bike.

Last futzed with by petrolhead; July 11th, 2022 at 12:39 AM.
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Old July 11th, 2022, 02:19 AM   #116
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Pressure needs to be adjusted for rider weight and track surface temperatures. Ambient air temps and humidity needs to be accounted for. Also are you using air or nitrogen in tyres?

What are these numbers?

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Old July 11th, 2022, 04:53 AM   #117
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Just air . The temperatures we ride i are anything between +15°C and 30°C
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Old July 11th, 2022, 05:17 AM   #118
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Bit of an oops moment today at the track. No damage to body, bike or mentality. Riding gear did what they're supposed to. The rider continued and posted his best lap of the day after the slip up.

Luckily for the bike, the handle bars are setup so that they have extra length outboard from the grips. Also I just installed longish bar end weights which took most of the damage. Also. I'd just replaced the fallen off steering angle limiters. No cracks in fairings just paint off. My extra thin wall DIY silencer has a new hole now.
Going to get some actual grip tape. The bike's fairing and tank have no edge to support leg against slipping over.
The engine arrived.
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Old July 13th, 2022, 11:14 AM   #119
petrolhead
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Name: Jarno
Location: Finland
Join Date: Aug 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R

Posts: 104
The end result with the grip tape is ugly as a wheelchair. I cut the patterns after a few beers .
Hopefully they work. This is not a show bike.
I installed them using an activator solution for adhesive surfaces, cleaned beforehand etc. The material wasn't really willing to bend even with a heat gun. Burned my fingers ofcourse.

I noticed that the Michelins are a tad lighter than the S22s the bike was on. Installed them now. They're supposed to be quick to heat up.
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Last futzed with by petrolhead; July 14th, 2022 at 04:02 AM.
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Old July 15th, 2022, 03:29 AM   #120
petrolhead
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Name: Jarno
Location: Finland
Join Date: Aug 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R

Posts: 104
Despite looks, the grip material works fine.
Tyres : I was skeptical whether he'd notice the difference between a good 2-compound tyre and a race tyre. Right out of the gate he was quick, said the laps felt slower (weren't) because of less slip. He put in multiple season best laps on 3 stints, before rain cut it a bit short. I set the Michelins to ~2,0/1,8bar hot.

Last futzed with by petrolhead; July 16th, 2022 at 12:28 PM.
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