question about gear and visibility

[im_a_ninja]

I have a hard time remembering where I read something once I change threads. I know I was reading a post questioning black motorcycles...

I have a '09 black 250 and so far I bought Black Joe Rocket Cleo jacket, black joe rocket gloves and a black helmet and black alpinestars boots. I thought it wasn't the best idea but I liked it. I also bought the scorpion exo-400 "spring" helmet with a little purple (still new, it fit better)

So, I'm thinking of returning my black jacket (still new bc I've been wearing a different one) and getting a Scorpion RED jacket and a scorpion exo-400 RED helmet in exchange for the "spring". Also considering black scorpion haley pants.

Does that sound like it would be safer as far as visibility and still look ok overall?

so basically blacked out bike....black pants, black gloves, black boots, red jacket and red helmet.

i was thinking it would look so cool to be in all black but is DOESN'T seem as safe as I had hoped.

Also, I want to remove the stock orange reflector...is there some sort of clear reflector tape that I could replace it with or is that illegal? I know I read a post (again with the sucky navigation) that someone flush mounted their turns and removed the front reflector. I want it less visible in daylight but still there for safety reasons.

[addy126]

Regarding the color red....... keep in mind that its great in sunlight for visability, however at dusk and night the red now becomes basically black. You'd might want to consider adding some "white" highlights within those color schemes on the jacket or helmet. I'd noticed a difference when I did that change from my bike being red... helmet red... and jacket black/red.. to items that had a few streaks of white in them. Granted there is reflectivity on some jackets but it can't always be depended on.

[JCCJMM_]

As far as the reflectors go, 3M makes a high quality reflective tape in black. I have some up front on my 07. It has been on there for over a year and still looks brand new.....still works as a reflector too, just not quite as good as the stock ones.

Do an ebay search for it, it is fairly inexpensive.

[M-Oorb]

Yeaa the all black thing doesnt sound like the safest bet. The red sounds good but the whole dusk/dawn(even though I dont know who the hell rides at dawn) could make that a bit hairy. +1 on the white, maybe even silver.

As for the reflectors...they look ugly bit if your riding during the night I think your best bet is to keep them on. Clear would look nicer but I dont know where you would be able to pick them up that would fit like the stockers do.

I must say though...happy that you figured out that visibility is safer than lookin cool...down someplace on the road cause some idiot didn't see you is never a hot look. So proud that we have some smart riders on this board

[andrewexd]

I love the "stealth" look but I too have opted for a red second jacket instead of black. My helmet is silver / black though so doesnt match but whatever. You could always get a black jacket and wear one of those neon yellow vests over it, the ones construction workers wear.

[capt_bugaloo]

Get something that has a combination: mostly black but with brightly coloured highlights.
A lot of riding gear also has reflective pinstriping and such; check that out.

I use this jacket for riding in town:

I don't approve of that headgear for riding, BTW. The stripes that look white are actually 3M reflective material. The jacket also has armour in the elbows, shoulders and back, and has good venting for warm weather.
Check them out at http://corazzo.net

[Talonne]

I am getting the same bike, and opted for a monochrome scheme rather than going all-black for the same reason. I have a white jacket on the way, and just picked up my silver Arai helmet yesterday!

[muffinman]

There are alternatives.. getting a jacket with some red on it is't going to make you THAT much more visible.

Try getting a helmet that looks good w/ black but is still more visible than a stealth lid (IE: racer replica helmets like the Shark RSR2 in my avatar).

examples:



... and put some reflective decals on the back of your helmet! I have a 3M industrial reflective Dainese logo on the back of mine and it POPS at night.

Also, try this:



Arm straps are removable.. Icon Mil-spec Squad II - people can see me for days during the DAY and NIGHT (silver camo patches are uber reflective)... it's also got a helmet holder, tool straps, jacket holder, sweet laptop compartment, and extra visor compartment. Best damn riding pack I've ever used (and trust me, I've been through several).

There's also a black verfsion available but while still effective at night (w/ the reflectives), it won't make you that much more visible during day.

[addy126]

Most people consider "colors" for daytime riding with little thought to its effect in the night time hours. I believe one to be just as important as the other so when making a choice you may have all the colors in the world on a helmet, jacket, gloves, boots and pack they will not help you as much as 2 particular colors at nite.... White and/or reflective is really a necessity if you are riding at nite .

[emt250]

i just bought a green vest with scotchlite stripes on it. Its not great, but for 9 bucks it will suffice until i find a better solution (like, putting some 3m on the back of my jacket). Now i wish i could just figure out a way to secure that vest to my backpack...

[Cali619]

Dont rely always on what your wearing , assume nobody can see you and be defensive. Unless you make actual eye contact you are not seen, and one reason I got a red bike is cause its used in a lot of applications for danger/warning/stop etc. universally and kinda clicks subcontiously. So aside from a loud ass muffler I am praying people catch a glimps of red and becomes more aware I am there.

[emt250]

Agreed, relying on gear is definitely a good way to get hurt. I wouldn't assume someone has "seen" me even if I've made eye contact. People do awfully stupid stuff, and even if their eyes have seen you it might not register in their head. I had a guy cut me off the other day in my white Volvo station wagon even after we both had a good look at each other.

I just go with what you said first. Assume nobody can see you (and everyone drives like an idiot) and be defensive.

[im_a_ninja]

I definitely assume nobody will see me......but I DO think someone will see red before black, no matter what.
Also, I am a single mom of 2 kids and likely won't do much night riding. But I borrowed a cortech light grey jacket from a friend that no longer has a bike.
I think if I ride at night I will wear that.

thanks for the opinions guys and gals!

[kkim]

Consider helmet color, as the helmet is the highest point of the rider/bike combo and gets seen first. I have both white and a hi vis colored helmet. Also consider upper body colored garments. Again, I have a Hi vis colored mesh jacket and the Aerostich suit I have now is light grey. I used to have a Hi vis colored suit previously.

Bike color helps too. Lime green is hard to miss on the road.

Anything you can do to attract attention helps, but by no means assures that anyone will see you. ride like you are invisible and anticipate for drivers to do the most stupid moves possible, as they do.

[OldGuy]

and keep in mind what Ryam said - assume you are not seen no matter what color you are wearing. Ride defensively.

[addy126]

I would hope nobody relies on just their gear. You'd be an idiot to discount defensive driving X 2 on a motorcycle and not consider it part of successful riding. I refer to color choices because it is just another piece to the safety puzzle that people tend to overlook when operating a motorcycle in both day and nite situations.

[miks]

Reflective rim tape/stickers would be an idea.

[rockNroll]

Also... use your light! I ride with high beams all the time and when in traffic, I poke my brake lever usually 2-3 times before pulling it in for the actual stop soz my brake light flashes at the cage behind me. Always use your turn signals and don't give up those large, easy to see signals for those "cool" flush mounts or confusing integrated tail lamps.... you want cagers to know what you're doing.

[Rayme]

Originally Posted by rockNroll

Also... use your light! I ride with high beams all the time and when in traffic, I poke my brake lever usually 2-3 times before pulling it in for the actual stop soz my brake light flashes at the cage behind me. Always use your turn signals and don't give up those large, easy to see signals for those "cool" flush mounts or confusing integrated tail lamps.... you want cagers to know what you're doing.

The stock blinkers are REALLY bright, even during the day.

[addy126]

Originally Posted by rockNroll

Also... use your light! I ride with high beams all the time and when in traffic, I poke my brake lever usually 2-3 times before pulling it in for the actual stop soz my brake light flashes at the cage behind me. Always use your turn signals and don't give up those large, easy to see signals for those "cool" flush mounts or confusing integrated tail lamps.... you want cagers to know what you're doing.

I'd say you are in the market for headlight and brake light modulators! I love mine and they do work with cagers to a degree

[im_a_ninja]

Originally Posted by rockNroll

Also... use your light! I ride with high beams all the time and when in traffic, I poke my brake lever usually 2-3 times before pulling it in for the actual stop soz my brake light flashes at the cage behind me. Always use your turn signals and don't give up those large, easy to see signals for those "cool" flush mounts or confusing integrated tail lamps.... you want cagers to know what you're doing.

thanks guys...i can use all the advice i can get

Rock! I was in Greenville yesterday!
I want to ride up there on my bike but, no offense to SC, the roads SUCK!
85 is horrible on the way up there from GA.

You ever come to GA?

[rockNroll]

Originally Posted by im_a_ninja

thanks guys...i can use all the advice i can get

Rock! I was in Greenville yesterday!
I want to ride up there on my bike but, no offense to SC, the roads SUCK!
85 is horrible on the way up there from GA.

You ever come to GA?

I used to run down to rd atl and then also near savannah, to run roebling rd. You should come up for some riding, I just got back from the nc/sc mountains and the roads in the area are great. Rt 178/ 215... blueridge parkway... it's a great area!

I don't know anyone in GA so I've not gone down, seeking nice roads to ride

[mcteague]

Try looking at motorcyclists on the road and pay attention to what you see. The main time people claim to not see us, meaning they were not really paying attention, is when we are coming head on to them. From that direction it does not matter much what color your bike and jacket are. Fancy bright paint jobs on helmets just blend in at a distance. Check it out sometime. The Navy actually tried "dazzle" paint jobs on ships that hurt your eyes when close but broke up the shape at a distance. Radar put paid to that project though.

Want to improve your odds of being seen when it counts? Solid white helmet, or perhaps neon yellow, and a headlight modulator. Just about anything else pales in significance.

As already mentioned, you still should assume that you are invisible.

Tim

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by mcteague

Try looking at motorcyclists on the road and pay attention to what you see. The main time people claim to not see us, meaning they were not really paying attention, is when we are coming head on to them. From that direction it does not matter much what color your bike and jacket are.

I disagree.

Yesterday I drove to work and on the last turn into the parking lot I came (not too) close to turning in front of an oncoming bike.

It was a black Suzuki Bandit. Rider had all-black gear.

The thing is, that aside from the headlight the bike totally blended into the background. The street in question, in the mornings, gets no direct sunlight. The buildings in the background are lit by the sun, though. The headlight initially registered as a sunlight reflection off a window in the distance (about 150 yards away).

I've driven this route thousands of times and have seen every kind of vehicle coming down that street towards me.

Had this guy been wearing brightly colored gear he WOULD have stood out. He would have presented a much larger visible target. As it was, the only thing that registered initially was the headlight itself.

After the momentary misidentification I did a double-take and could indeed see his arms and helmet past the glare of the light... but they certainly did not stand out at all.

The fact that I was able to see him past the headlight glare despite the stealth bike and stealth clothing is what makes me conclude that bright colors would have made him more visible. That, plus seeing other bikes coming down the same street at the same speed at the same time of day.

You mention that bright helmet paint jobs aren't visible at a distance... but it's not "at a distance" that's of concern. It's close-in... a hundred feet away. "At a distance" means you're not going to get hit. Up close and personal is where you need the guy to see you.

Those dazzle camouflage paint jobs were meant only to confuse observers at a great distance. Anyone who's seen a photo of one up close (as in close enough to actually have collision be a possibility) would never in a million years think that the ship could not be seen.