2007 won't start, not even getting neutral or oil warning lights!

davidfriend · April 26th, 2011, 07:06 PM

hey guys--i've searched and searched but can't find anyone with a similar issue...I started up my 250 this afternoon to ride home and it cut off after running for about 2 minutes, i've triple checked the engine cut-off, the kick stand is up, the fuel is on...when I turn the key to ON, the gauge back lights come on, the tail light comes on, but the neutral/oil/headlights do not come on, and there is no response when you push the starter button.

when it cut off, it didn't sound like what happens when you run out of fuel etc., it cut off abruptly, like there is no electric to the plugs or something...

i'm open to ideas!

Alex · April 26th, 2011, 07:27 PM

Make sure clutch is pulled in, make sure shifter is in neutral, make sure kick stand is up, and then give it a shot.

One of those safety switches may have given up the ghost, but if you confirm all 3, it will make up for one bad one.

(i.e. if clutch switch bad, will still start if shifter is in neutral and kickstand is up. If kickstand switch bad, will still start if clutch in and shifter in neutral. If neutral sensor bad, will still start if clutch in and kickstand is up.

Also, the headlights do not come on normally until the bike is started; that's not a symptom, it's normal behavior. That allows maximum current to the starter before energizing the light.

kkim · April 26th, 2011, 11:16 PM

I'm with Alex... check your interlock switches for faults.

"A" · April 27th, 2011, 02:50 AM

Blown main fuse?

davidfriend · April 27th, 2011, 06:02 AM

I doubt its an interlock issue...even if you don't have the clutch squeezed or in neutral etc. you would still get the oil pressure light when you turn the switch on...I checked the fuse box this morning and they all look good (including the external 30amp fuse)

the blinkers also work fine, and the indicator for them lights up.

at this point i'm going to have AAA take it to the dealer...its hard to diagnose sitting in a parking garage

davidfriend · May 2nd, 2011, 08:49 AM

the dealer picked up my Ninja on Thursday, I haven't gotten a diagnosis yet, will reply and let everyone now what it was to add to the 'body of knowledge'

davidfriend · May 6th, 2011, 11:56 AM

well...turns out it was a burnt out fuse, if I had known what to look for I could have swapped it and rode home that night! It was the 'ignition' fuse, I'm not real sure what tripped it. I had put in an HID light conversion a couple of days before, i've been riding now for a couple of days and its fine, so we'll see...i am keeping extra fuses on me just in case (probably good idea in general)

kkim · May 6th, 2011, 01:20 PM

Thanks for the follow up, David. Glad you got it sorted and can get out and enjoy the bike.

mrlmd · May 6th, 2011, 01:21 PM

You can't ignore a blown fuse, it blows for a reason, like a short in the wiring, to prevent something from burning up. You must go over your entire electrical system and wiring harness and look for a wire rubbing against the frame, a short in the headlight bucket, etc., etc., and not just buy a couple of extra fuses to have around with you. What happens if you replace the blown fuse and it blows immediately again? You are riding around playing Russian Roulette.

kkim · May 6th, 2011, 02:05 PM

well, the first step in troubleshooting (unless there are gross indications of something being burnt) was to replace the fuse to see if it blows again. (at least that's the procedure we always used at work)

FrugalNinja250 · May 6th, 2011, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrlmd

You can't ignore a blown fuse, it blows for a reason, like a short in the wiring, to prevent something from burning up. You must go over your entire electrical system and wiring harness and look for a wire rubbing against the frame, a short in the headlight bucket, etc., etc., and not just buy a couple of extra fuses to have around with you. What happens if you replace the blown fuse and it blows immediately again? You are riding around playing Russian Roulette.

Very true. The only purpose of a fuse is to melt before the rest of the wiring harness melts in case of a malfunction. Fuses are designed to melt without starting fires, but the wiring harness isn't.

mrlmd · May 6th, 2011, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

well, the first step in troubleshooting (unless there are gross indications of something being burnt) was to replace the fuse to see if it blows again. (at least that's the procedure we always used at work)

That almost like Einstein's quote that insanity is doing the same thing twice and expecting a different result.
Wouldn't the prudent and smart thing to do be to go over the bike and look for a reason why the fuse blew? How many times does it have to blow before you inspect the bike? 2? 3? Or is once enough? Did you buy a 5 pack of them, just to try and get home? If you don't find anything, at least you looked for something that could be a problem. Do you know if the dealer thoroughly inspected the bike or did he just sell you more fuses? Did he have any clue why the main fuse blew? Time for a new dealer.

kkim · May 6th, 2011, 03:55 PM

sorry if I misunderstood, but is the ignition fuse the same as the main 30A fuse? I didn't read where the main fuse was blowing.

he said he was working the in the area of the lights, which to me sounds like operator error that caused the fuse to blow. yes, the first thing we did at work was to replace the fuse to see if it blew again for repeatability. There are many reasons fuses blow... some causes not as the intended designed safety overload it was intended to serve.

do you have a point? yes, but many times, it's the poking and prodding looking for problems that don't exist that lead to cause other problems due to poor workmanship. All I'm saying is run with the replaced fuse and see if it pops again. If it does, then start looking for a hard cause for its failure. It's a step in a process, not the end. I could have recommended he replace the fuse with a penny and just forget about it.

mrlmd · May 6th, 2011, 09:51 PM

He said the bike started up and he was running it for a few minutes, then it quit.
He was working with the lights a few days before that and the bike was OK in the interim, so I wouldn't think he caused a short then.
I looked at the wiring diagram to see what the "ignition fuse" is, it's 10 amp and feeds the starter switch and ignitor. It has nothing to do with lights, and he said his gauge and tail lights came on, but not the headlight and not the starter. Doesn't the headlight come on only if the bike is running?
Someplace he developed an intermittent short in that circuit while the bike was running. Maybe his wiring to the HID is improper (does that draw so much current it needs a relay to power the bulb?) and is tapped into a wrong circuit. I don't think poking and prodding looking for the source of blowing a 10 amp fuse is improper and would cause any other problems. Just my opinion, do what you want, take your chances by ignoring a blown fuse, especially if it's needed to keep the engine running. What happens if it craps out on the highway?

April 26th, 2011, 07:06 PM	#1
davidfriend David Name: David Location: North Carolina Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250r Posts: 16	2007 won't start, not even getting neutral or oil warning lights! hey guys--i've searched and searched but can't find anyone with a similar issue...I started up my 250 this afternoon to ride home and it cut off after running for about 2 minutes, i've triple checked the engine cut-off, the kick stand is up, the fuel is on...when I turn the key to ON, the gauge back lights come on, the tail light comes on, but the neutral/oil/headlights do not come on, and there is no response when you push the starter button. when it cut off, it didn't sound like what happens when you run out of fuel etc., it cut off abruptly, like there is no electric to the plugs or something... i'm open to ideas!

April 26th, 2011, 07:27 PM	#2
Alex ninjette.org dude Name: 1 guess :-) Location: SF Bay Area Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 7	Make sure clutch is pulled in, make sure shifter is in neutral, make sure kick stand is up, and then give it a shot. One of those safety switches may have given up the ghost, but if you confirm all 3, it will make up for one bad one. (i.e. if clutch switch bad, will still start if shifter is in neutral and kickstand is up. If kickstand switch bad, will still start if clutch in and shifter in neutral. If neutral sensor bad, will still start if clutch in and kickstand is up. Also, the headlights do not come on normally until the bike is started; that's not a symptom, it's normal behavior. That allows maximum current to the starter before energizing the light. __________________________________________________ Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)

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April 26th, 2011, 11:16 PM	#3
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	I'm with Alex... check your interlock switches for faults.

April 27th, 2011, 02:50 AM	#4
"A" vampire Name: A Location: IT Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2 many 2 list Posts: A lot.	Blown main fuse?

April 27th, 2011, 06:02 AM	#5
davidfriend David Name: David Location: North Carolina Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250r Posts: 16	I doubt its an interlock issue...even if you don't have the clutch squeezed or in neutral etc. you would still get the oil pressure light when you turn the switch on...I checked the fuse box this morning and they all look good (including the external 30amp fuse) the blinkers also work fine, and the indicator for them lights up. at this point i'm going to have AAA take it to the dealer...its hard to diagnose sitting in a parking garage

May 2nd, 2011, 08:49 AM	#6
davidfriend David Name: David Location: North Carolina Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250r Posts: 16	the dealer picked up my Ninja on Thursday, I haven't gotten a diagnosis yet, will reply and let everyone now what it was to add to the 'body of knowledge'

May 6th, 2011, 11:56 AM	#7
davidfriend David Name: David Location: North Carolina Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250r Posts: 16	well...turns out it was a burnt out fuse, if I had known what to look for I could have swapped it and rode home that night! It was the 'ignition' fuse, I'm not real sure what tripped it. I had put in an HID light conversion a couple of days before, i've been riding now for a couple of days and its fine, so we'll see...i am keeping extra fuses on me just in case (probably good idea in general)

May 6th, 2011, 01:20 PM	#8
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	Thanks for the follow up, David. Glad you got it sorted and can get out and enjoy the bike.

May 6th, 2011, 01:21 PM	#9
mrlmd ninjette.org sage Name: Marc Location: Crawfordville, Florida Join Date: Jan 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Suzuki S50, 2006 Kawasaki Ninja EX250F, 1990 Honda PC800, 2000 Yamaha TW200 Posts: 848	You can't ignore a blown fuse, it blows for a reason, like a short in the wiring, to prevent something from burning up. You must go over your entire electrical system and wiring harness and look for a wire rubbing against the frame, a short in the headlight bucket, etc., etc., and not just buy a couple of extra fuses to have around with you. What happens if you replace the blown fuse and it blows immediately again? You are riding around playing Russian Roulette.

May 6th, 2011, 02:05 PM	#10
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	well, the first step in troubleshooting (unless there are gross indications of something being burnt) was to replace the fuse to see if it blows again. (at least that's the procedure we always used at work)

May 6th, 2011, 03:55 PM	#13
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	sorry if I misunderstood, but is the ignition fuse the same as the main 30A fuse? I didn't read where the main fuse was blowing. he said he was working the in the area of the lights, which to me sounds like operator error that caused the fuse to blow. yes, the first thing we did at work was to replace the fuse to see if it blew again for repeatability. There are many reasons fuses blow... some causes not as the intended designed safety overload it was intended to serve. do you have a point? yes, but many times, it's the poking and prodding looking for problems that don't exist that lead to cause other problems due to poor workmanship. All I'm saying is run with the replaced fuse and see if it pops again. If it does, then start looking for a hard cause for its failure. It's a step in a process, not the end. I could have recommended he replace the fuse with a penny and just forget about it.

May 6th, 2011, 09:51 PM	#14
mrlmd ninjette.org sage Name: Marc Location: Crawfordville, Florida Join Date: Jan 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Suzuki S50, 2006 Kawasaki Ninja EX250F, 1990 Honda PC800, 2000 Yamaha TW200 Posts: 848	He said the bike started up and he was running it for a few minutes, then it quit. He was working with the lights a few days before that and the bike was OK in the interim, so I wouldn't think he caused a short then. I looked at the wiring diagram to see what the "ignition fuse" is, it's 10 amp and feeds the starter switch and ignitor. It has nothing to do with lights, and he said his gauge and tail lights came on, but not the headlight and not the starter. Doesn't the headlight come on only if the bike is running? Someplace he developed an intermittent short in that circuit while the bike was running. Maybe his wiring to the HID is improper (does that draw so much current it needs a relay to power the bulb?) and is tapped into a wrong circuit. I don't think poking and prodding looking for the source of blowing a 10 amp fuse is improper and would cause any other problems. Just my opinion, do what you want, take your chances by ignoring a blown fuse, especially if it's needed to keep the engine running. What happens if it craps out on the highway?