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Old March 28th, 2013, 08:43 PM   #1
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Four Stages Of Body Position

Thought this was a great vid.

In this video, Thomas Delaney discusses the 4 stages of body position when riding: Straights, Setting up for a Corner, Cornering and Corner Exit.

Link to original page on YouTube.

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Old March 29th, 2013, 05:18 AM   #2
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Very good find, Manny !

Thanks for sharing it

Caveat: Absolute no need for using this technique in street riding.
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Old March 29th, 2013, 07:44 AM   #3
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Thanks Hernan!

I agree! Many of the techniques are a bit "overkill" for the street; however, I found some of the little things can make a big difference even for street riding.

For example, keeping the ball of your foot on the pegs instead of hooking your heels on the peg. This allows for better distribution/control of weight on the bike.

Another interesting thing was your body/head position relative to the center-line of the bike in a turn. It doesn't have to be super exaggerated, like it's done on the track, but I think shifting your body, properly, even a little bit towards the inside of a turn could works towards adding stability and control.

As I watch these videos that are geared towards track riding, I think to myself how I can implement the "spirit" of what is being said, by understanding the purpose of why they are being done, into my street riding.

Truth be said, another reason why full-blown track riding body positioning is overkill is that the Ninja 250 is so small it simply doesn't require the same amount of effort to lean over the bike, and thus requires much less re-positioning of the body IMO.

From my understanding, one of the main purposes of "hanging off" a bike is to pull the bike inwards, against the gyroscopic forces, during a turn. Even on the track I don't think you'll need to hang off the 250 much simply because of its weight and lower potential speed (less gyroscopic forces pulling the bike to the outside).

Then again, I may be over (or under) analyzing things like I tend to do.
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Old March 29th, 2013, 08:06 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motofool View Post
Very good find, Manny !

Thanks for sharing it

Caveat: Absolute no need for using this technique in street riding.
I completely disagree.

If you are to hot into a corner it is much safer to hang off more than to apply more brake. I don't drag a knee on the street but I use all these methods even for street riding. It's just second nature and I feel more comfortable using my body while riding than just sitting there along for the ride.

I've been riding like this since the early 80's and haven't crashed on the street using these technics (knock on asphalt).
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Old March 29th, 2013, 09:35 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfresh View Post
Thanks Hernan!
.........
As I watch these videos that are geared towards track riding, I think to myself how I can implement the "spirit" of what is being said, by understanding the purpose of why they are being done, into my street riding.
.......
From my understanding, one of the main purposes of "hanging off" a bike is to pull the bike inwards, against the gyroscopic forces, during a turn. Even on the track I don't think you'll need to hang off the 250 much simply because of its weight and lower potential speed (less gyroscopic forces pulling the bike to the outside).......
You are welcome, Manny

I find the content in the video excellent; it just occurred to me that new riders reading this thread (now and in the future) may understand that this is a "universally applied" body position, which in my opinion is great for the track and for saving a riding mistake on public roads, but is not practical for street riding. Speed limits also limit the lean angle and this technique was designed for big lean angles.

Now, as for the purposes of the technique, I don't think that it is pulling heavier bikes inwards the turn.

The main idea is to lean the weight of the rider more, so the weight of the bike doesn't have to lean as much as it would in a centered-body position.

By doing that, a few degrees of lean can be saved for the frame of the bike, helping the suspension work a little better and keep a little more constant vertical pressure on both contact patches. The available traction of the tires very much depends on that vertical pressure on both contact patches: more is good, less is bad. The lateral loads (trying to skid the tires) on the contact patches remain the same (regardless of the lean angle of the frame and suspension) as long as the turning radius and speed don't change.

As the lean angle increases, so does the angle at which the suspension "feels" and react to the vertical forces of the road's crests and valleys.
The bike and rider become dynamically heavier to the suspension in that same direction. Both results of dramatic lean angles and turning forces make the best suspension just marginal.

Another purpose of the technique is to increase the speed in a turn beyond the speed to which the dragging hard parts of your bike allow you turn. Let's say your bike max physical lean angle under the dynamic loads (bike and rider are heavier to the suspension while turning) of a turn is 45 degrees (measured between a vertical line and the middle line of your frame); so, 46 degrees = sparks and tires pivoting up = less vertical pressure = no good). If the radius of that turn is 200 feet and you have reached that point in a straight riding position, you can only go 56 mph. If you, instead, hang-off properly, you could go 59 mph. The reason is that, by hanging-off, the rider-bike combined center of mass is off center several inches, which allows a combined lean angle of 49 degrees, while the angle of the frame remains at 45.

Counter-steering is the only really effective technique to bring the bike in and out a leaned attitude; weighting the pegs and leaning the body helps, but just a little fraction: hanging-off while braking before the turn doesn't induce a circular trajectory.

Check this related thread:

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=119958

Sorry for the length of the response
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Old March 29th, 2013, 10:12 AM   #6
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good video. i really enjoy when people explain the details... like "push your outside heel forward against the peg with your knee against the tank to keep from sliding forward under heavy braking since you will be off the bike already setup BP wise" and the rest of the details he gives... these are little things that are really hard to notice by yourself but make a huge difference
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Old March 29th, 2013, 11:14 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC Cowboy View Post
I completely disagree.

If you are to hot into a corner it is much safer to hang off more than to apply more brake. I don't drag a knee on the street but I use all these methods even for street riding. It's just second nature and I feel more comfortable using my body while riding than just sitting there along for the ride.
This. I use these techniques to some degree and it can really give you a lot more breathing room when you find yourself in a decreasing radius turn or just anytime you don't want to end up on the side of the road. Honestly, there's no excuse for sloppy street technique when such great resources are freely available.
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Old March 29th, 2013, 03:17 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex.s View Post
good video. i really enjoy when people explain the details... like "push your outside heel forward against the peg with your knee against the tank to keep from sliding forward under heavy braking since you will be off the bike already setup BP wise" and the rest of the details he gives... these are little things that are really hard to notice by yourself but make a huge difference
Exactly. The little tidbits of really specific information that can make really big differences are awesome-- all from the comfort of my chair at home!

The information about keeping your foot towards the outside of the pegs was also something that would've taken me a while to pickup on by myself. I typically kept em close to the bike, but it makes sense to keep them on the outside so you can position your knee towards the tank and such prior to a turn.

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Old March 29th, 2013, 03:36 PM   #9
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good video. i really enjoy when people explain the details... like "push your outside heel forward against the peg with your knee against the tank to keep from sliding forward under heavy braking since you will be off the bike already setup BP wise" and the rest of the details he gives... these are little things that are really hard to notice by yourself but make a huge difference
This!

Too often when watching videos, I notice that either the narrator or those talking about the video keep mentioning things that I never saw. I like seeing instructions that actually spell out what they are talking about and identify them on pictures/videos so you can see the technique in use.

Thanks for the video!
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Old March 29th, 2013, 04:48 PM   #10
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Very helpful video, thanks for sharing!
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Old March 30th, 2013, 08:30 PM   #11
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Yaeh I pretty much watched all their videos few months ago.

They have a nice series in their youtube channel. I suggest people to check all the vids on their channel. Most of the info goes hand in hand with what Yamaha Champion school teaches.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 08:31 PM   #12
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Great video!
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Old March 31st, 2013, 07:10 AM   #13
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Yaeh I pretty much watched all their videos few months ago.

They have a nice series in their youtube channel. I suggest people to check all the vids on their channel. Most of the info goes hand in hand with what Yamaha Champion school teaches.
Do you have to ride a Yamaha to watch?
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Old March 31st, 2013, 09:25 AM   #14
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Do you have to ride a Yamaha to watch?
Yes. That's the only way to access secret yamaha files. Each R6 and R1 comes with a WIN number instead of VIN. you enter that and get full access.
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