Having Idle issues, only running on choke..???

[rubber duckie]

Hi guys

new here and i would like to give some help to those of you that have been having issues with their 250.

my bike is a 2005 with 244 miles, it had been sitting for 6 months to a year when i got it and another 2.5 years in my possession, but for the life of me could not figure out why it would:

1. only run the engine on choke
2. would not be able to idle below 3k
3. when i twist the throttle it would die out
4. when i twist the throttle it would take forever to rev up
5. twist throttle and it would bog down really low
6. die out if it idles for more then 10 seconds.
7. not start cold
8. not start if warmed up on choke or not.


yes i have been having crazy issues with my bike, and like some of you this might be your first bike let alone anything that is carbureted.

things that i did that DID NOT WORK:

DO NOT:

1. let it run while it idles high on choke or other wise. thinking it will work itself out

2. pour in carb cleaner , it doesn't not work. you end up wasting money on gas and the additive.

3. Seafoam, again waste of money.

4: don't take the easy way out, do it once, do it right.

Most of you have been looking around here , nina250forum, and holy grail of info ninja250.org. but still come up short when it comes to trying to get your bike to work.


a little history on my bike.
So when i got the bike back in late 2008, it had been sitting for a very long time, gas was yellow, both in tank carbs, battery was dead. i changed out the oil and filter. the bike was able to start up, only on choke, and rode it 20 miles home. it then sat in the garage for a couple of months untouched.

one day i decided to work on the bike, it would not run without choke, or idle low enough without dying. and when i would blip the throttle it would either bog down, die out, or not rev. so i had a great idea to buy carb cleaner...... what a waste of time. im sure running at around 3-5k for a long period of time trying to clean out the system was not good for the bike. and it really didn't do anything but make me give up hope and waste gas.

a year later...i decided to actually get her to work, and would not give up until i did. i changed the spark plugs (NGK part #CR8HSA), oil, oil filter, and gas. i took apart the carbs and inside was really clean and so my buddies said to put it back "they look brand new". well i never should have done that. the bike did not run any better. i had another great idea of running seafoam that same night. the bike ran a tiny bit better but then all of the sudden die out. and could not get it to start again.

a week later i decided to take the carbs out AGAIN, this time i cleaned it but only with spray. i saw some gunk come out but not much. put everything back and it ran better, but still having issues. and running lean. 2 days later i decided to take the carbs out one final last time.

this time i took copper wire ( cut a section of CAT5 ethernet cable, strip an inch off the wires and twist some together), and clean out ALL the ports in the jets and ports in the carb. fallow the directions here and here. do not take the easy way out or you will end up taking the carbs out again to do it right. after the install i noticed that the bike was completely different. BUT now i have different issues. when i twist the throttle it would rev up but hang there for some time before returning to normal (running lean). i thought if i increase the mixture it would make it better. but at around 3.5-4 turns it didn't show any change.

at this time i was just about to throw in the towel and hire someone. i go online and people where telling me i might have a vacuum leak. its really hard to test for a vac leak when the bike doesn't idle right and the revs keep jumping up and down. my bike is a CA model so i ripped out the emissions crap to lower the chance of vac leak through there. i put the bike back together again and it ran a tiny bit better, but still not reliable. i was thinking to myself, what could it be? i still have yet to check 3 things...

valves... well i only have 244 miles, do i really need to check them yet?
clogged petcock... well it flows fuel, but still might need to be checked.
last.. carb sync. looking up the issues with an out of sync carb, this might be my problem.

well yesterday i decided to buy 3/8 od tubing with 1/4 i.d., zip tile it around a long level, pour in ATF oil and make my carb syncer. and guess what, my carbs where all out of wack. i button everything back up and everything is perfect. zero issues with idle and throttle.


ok so that was alot of reading so here is the cliff notes to what i think you need to do if you are having problems.

1: clean carbs thoroughly, soak them in something like simple green if they are gunked up, if not just run fine copper ware through the ports and jets. and clean with cleaner. even if they look ok, just do it you will be surprised how much you get it.
2: check vac lines, make sure they are still soft and not cracked. replace them if needed, make sure the boots from intake to carb and carb to engine are seated correctly.
3: do a carb sync, it made a world of a difference for me, and only took 5 mins after i got it warmed up.
4: check petcock if the above doesn't work
5: last would be valve job. this is last on my list since it would be the most time consuming. then do another carb sync after adjustment.

im no expert, just giving my experience and hope i can help others.

[Alex]

Nice first post.

[n4mwd]

Glad you got it running again. Wow, 244 miles. That's barely a tank full. I'd say its been doing an enormous amount of sitting.

With the pregen Ninja, "sitting" and "clogged carbs" are synonymous. Like you, a lot of people who think they are cleaning their carbs out, really aren't. Glad you figured out the right way to do it.

You also might want to think about new tires, or at least inspect your 6 year old ones really carefully. Rubber dry rots so you can have perfect tread on a rotten tire.

[rubber duckie]

rubber still looks good thanks. the bike has not seen much day light, it has been sitting in southern cali garages its whole life.

[choneofakind]

Welcome to ninjette! glad you got it running. All I can say is wow that was quite an adventure. These can be a pain in the butt to get running when they've been sitting that long.

Only thing I would add is to use compressed air instead of copper wire when cleaning the carbs. I would be afraid to damage the jets or other small parts in the carbs.

Good to know that simple green is effective on cleaning carbs

[n4mwd]

Sitting that long? I'd be seriously concerned about flat spots in the tires.

Regarding copper wire: I don't see a problem with using copper wires to clean the carbs as long as you don't break it off inside. Copper isn't likely to harm the aluminum or brass parts in the carb because its so soft. I've used steel mig wire on carbs before, but copper is safer. Blowing it out with air can leave stuff behind although I have used that too.

[rubber duckie]

it didnt sit in one spot the whole time. it would be moved around, and since my owner ship i rode it from one house to another, 3 since 2008. and while its in my garage i would move it around to rearrange stuff to make more room for my toys.

[Ninjas]

Originally Posted by rubber duckie

Hi guys

new here and i would like to give some help to those of you that have been having issues with their 250.

my bike is a 2005 with 244 miles, it had been sitting for 6 months to a year when i got it and another 2.5 years in my possession, but for the life of me could not figure out why it would:

1. only run the engine on choke
2. would not be able to idle below 3k
3. when i twist the throttle it would die out
4. when i twist the throttle it would take forever to rev up
5. twist throttle and it would bog down really low
6. die out if it idles for more then 10 seconds.
7. not start cold
8. not start if warmed up on choke or not.


yes i have been having crazy issues with my bike, and like some of you this might be your first bike let alone anything that is carbureted.

things that i did that DID NOT WORK:

DO NOT:

1. let it run while it idles high on choke or other wise. thinking it will work itself out

2. pour in carb cleaner , it doesn't not work. you end up wasting money on gas and the additive.

3. Seafoam, again waste of money.

4: don't take the easy way out, do it once, do it right.

Most of you have been looking around here , nina250forum, and holy grail of info ninja250.org. but still come up short when it comes to trying to get your bike to work.


a little history on my bike.
So when i got the bike back in late 2008, it had been sitting for a very long time, gas was yellow, both in tank carbs, battery was dead. i changed out the oil and filter. the bike was able to start up, only on choke, and rode it 20 miles home. it then sat in the garage for a couple of months untouched.

one day i decided to work on the bike, it would not run without choke, or idle low enough without dying. and when i would blip the throttle it would either bog down, die out, or not rev. so i had a great idea to buy carb cleaner...... what a waste of time. im sure running at around 3-5k for a long period of time trying to clean out the system was not good for the bike. and it really didn't do anything but make me give up hope and waste gas.

a year later...i decided to actually get her to work, and would not give up until i did. i changed the spark plugs (NGK part #CR8HSA), oil, oil filter, and gas. i took apart the carbs and inside was really clean and so my buddies said to put it back "they look brand new". well i never should have done that. the bike did not run any better. i had another great idea of running seafoam that same night. the bike ran a tiny bit better but then all of the sudden die out. and could not get it to start again.

a week later i decided to take the carbs out AGAIN, this time i cleaned it but only with spray. i saw some gunk come out but not much. put everything back and it ran better, but still having issues. and running lean. 2 days later i decided to take the carbs out one final last time.

this time i took copper wire ( cut a section of CAT5 ethernet cable, strip an inch off the wires and twist some together), and clean out ALL the ports in the jets and ports in the carb. fallow the directions here and here. do not take the easy way out or you will end up taking the carbs out again to do it right. after the install i noticed that the bike was completely different. BUT now i have different issues. when i twist the throttle it would rev up but hang there for some time before returning to normal (running lean). i thought if i increase the mixture it would make it better. but at around 3.5-4 turns it didn't show any change.

at this time i was just about to throw in the towel and hire someone. i go online and people where telling me i might have a vacuum leak. its really hard to test for a vac leak when the bike doesn't idle right and the revs keep jumping up and down. my bike is a CA model so i ripped out the emissions crap to lower the chance of vac leak through there. i put the bike back together again and it ran a tiny bit better, but still not reliable. i was thinking to myself, what could it be? i still have yet to check 3 things...

valves... well i only have 244 miles, do i really need to check them yet?
clogged petcock... well it flows fuel, but still might need to be checked.
last.. carb sync. looking up the issues with an out of sync carb, this might be my problem.

well yesterday i decided to buy 3/8 od tubing with 1/4 i.d., zip tile it around a long level, pour in ATF oil and make my carb syncer. and guess what, my carbs where all out of wack. i button everything back up and everything is perfect. zero issues with idle and throttle.


ok so that was alot of reading so here is the cliff notes to what i think you need to do if you are having problems.

1: clean carbs thoroughly, soak them in something like simple green if they are gunked up, if not just run fine copper ware through the ports and jets. and clean with cleaner. even if they look ok, just do it you will be surprised how much you get it.
2: check vac lines, make sure they are still soft and not cracked. replace them if needed, make sure the boots from intake to carb and carb to engine are seated correctly.
3: do a carb sync, it made a world of a difference for me, and only took 5 mins after i got it warmed up.
4: check petcock if the above doesn't work
5: last would be valve job. this is last on my list since it would be the most time consuming. then do another carb sync after adjustment.

im no expert, just giving my experience and hope i can help others.

Rubber Duckie, you may well have solved my problem, which is similarly the problem you were having. I've ruled out all electrical, fuel is being supplied to the carbs, can't check for boot leaks. Seems like I'll have to sync the carbs and have the valves looked into. If that doesn't work, I'll have to cough up some cash and have her completely looked over.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by rubber duckie

Hi guys

new here and i would like to give some help to those of you that have been having issues with their 250.

my bike is a 2005 with 244 miles, it had been sitting for 6 months to a year when i got it and another 2.5 years in my possession, but for the life of me could not figure out why it would:

1. only run the engine on choke
2. would not be able to idle below 3k
3. when i twist the throttle it would die out
4. when i twist the throttle it would take forever to rev up
5. twist throttle and it would bog down really low
6. die out if it idles for more then 10 seconds.
7. not start cold
8. not start if warmed up on choke or not.


yes i have been having crazy issues with my bike, and like some of you this might be your first bike let alone anything that is carbureted.

things that i did that DID NOT WORK:

DO NOT:

1. let it run while it idles high on choke or other wise. thinking it will work itself out

2. pour in carb cleaner , it doesn't not work. you end up wasting money on gas and the additive.

3. Seafoam, again waste of money.

4: don't take the easy way out, do it once, do it right.

Most of you have been looking around here , nina250forum, and holy grail of info ninja250.org. but still come up short when it comes to trying to get your bike to work.


a little history on my bike.
So when i got the bike back in late 2008, it had been sitting for a very long time, gas was yellow, both in tank carbs, battery was dead. i changed out the oil and filter. the bike was able to start up, only on choke, and rode it 20 miles home. it then sat in the garage for a couple of months untouched.

one day i decided to work on the bike, it would not run without choke, or idle low enough without dying. and when i would blip the throttle it would either bog down, die out, or not rev. so i had a great idea to buy carb cleaner...... what a waste of time. im sure running at around 3-5k for a long period of time trying to clean out the system was not good for the bike. and it really didn't do anything but make me give up hope and waste gas.

a year later...i decided to actually get her to work, and would not give up until i did. i changed the spark plugs (NGK part #CR8HSA), oil, oil filter, and gas. i took apart the carbs and inside was really clean and so my buddies said to put it back "they look brand new". well i never should have done that. the bike did not run any better. i had another great idea of running seafoam that same night. the bike ran a tiny bit better but then all of the sudden die out. and could not get it to start again.

a week later i decided to take the carbs out AGAIN, this time i cleaned it but only with spray. i saw some gunk come out but not much. put everything back and it ran better, but still having issues. and running lean. 2 days later i decided to take the carbs out one final last time.

this time i took copper wire ( cut a section of CAT5 ethernet cable, strip an inch off the wires and twist some together), and clean out ALL the ports in the jets and ports in the carb. fallow the directions here and here. do not take the easy way out or you will end up taking the carbs out again to do it right. after the install i noticed that the bike was completely different. BUT now i have different issues. when i twist the throttle it would rev up but hang there for some time before returning to normal (running lean). i thought if i increase the mixture it would make it better. but at around 3.5-4 turns it didn't show any change.

at this time i was just about to throw in the towel and hire someone. i go online and people where telling me i might have a vacuum leak. its really hard to test for a vac leak when the bike doesn't idle right and the revs keep jumping up and down. my bike is a CA model so i ripped out the emissions crap to lower the chance of vac leak through there. i put the bike back together again and it ran a tiny bit better, but still not reliable. i was thinking to myself, what could it be? i still have yet to check 3 things...

valves... well i only have 244 miles, do i really need to check them yet?
clogged petcock... well it flows fuel, but still might need to be checked.
last.. carb sync. looking up the issues with an out of sync carb, this might be my problem.

well yesterday i decided to buy 3/8 od tubing with 1/4 i.d., zip tile it around a long level, pour in ATF oil and make my carb syncer. and guess what, my carbs where all out of wack. i button everything back up and everything is perfect. zero issues with idle and throttle.


ok so that was alot of reading so here is the cliff notes to what i think you need to do if you are having problems.

1: clean carbs thoroughly, soak them in something like simple green if they are gunked up, if not just run fine copper ware through the ports and jets. and clean with cleaner. even if they look ok, just do it you will be surprised how much you get it.
2: check vac lines, make sure they are still soft and not cracked. replace them if needed, make sure the boots from intake to carb and carb to engine are seated correctly.
3: do a carb sync, it made a world of a difference for me, and only took 5 mins after i got it warmed up.
4: check petcock if the above doesn't work
5: last would be valve job. this is last on my list since it would be the most time consuming. then do another carb sync after adjustment.

im no expert, just giving my experience and hope i can help others.

I'm very fond of lacquer thinner to clean carburetors. DO NOT get any lacquer thinner on any rubber parts - it will ruin them. I also prefer acetylene torch tip cleaners to clear out jets and ports. You'll find them at any welding supply for less than $10.00. If you use a piece of cut wire you may damage the jet openings.

Bill

[Triple Jim]

Originally Posted by Ram Jet

I also prefer acetylene torch tip cleaners to clear out jets and ports. You'll find them at any welding supply for less than $10.00. If you use a piece of cut wire you may damage the jet openings.

Copper wire is safe. I usually use one or more strands from something like #18 hookup wire.

The torch tip cleaner sets I have are made of steel wires, and have teeth on them like a half-hearted file. I'd expect them to remove brass from jets, although since the teeth are not aggressive, they probably won't remove it very quickly.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

Copper wire is safe. I usually use one or more strands from something like #18 hookup wire.

The torch tip cleaner sets I have are made of steel wires, and have teeth on them like a half-hearted file. I'd expect them to remove brass from jets, although since the teeth are not aggressive, they probably won't remove it very quickly.

You're probably OK with copper wire but if you look closely at the tip cleaner wires the small bumps on the wires are actually rounded to prevent removing material. I've been using tip cleaners for years to clean carburetors and wouldn't you know now some companies are now selling them as motorcycle jet cleaners. "Different strokes for different folks."

Cheers,

Bill