Turbo250.com - My Turbo Build Blog

[Racer x]

The only plug that is different is the one goo g to the regulator. Or do you have a 300 harness?

[Racer x]

I noticed you don't have a blow off valve.

[garth285]

yes I'm running the 300 Harness but 250 stator

No blow off valve right now, supposed to have one on the way but low boost and kind of single gear runs you can get away with not having one. As soon as it goes on the road race course it will have one but I'll deal with a small amount of com pressure surge to start with lol.

Turbosmart Kompact valves are pretty inexpensive if you are looking for one!

[Racer x]

With LSR you are full throttle full power. Then off throttle and full breaking.

[garth285]

Yeah I'm not to worried about it, on my drag buss it did not have a blow off valve, you really don't see any need for one until the end of the run, but with how small this turbo is I don't want to put any added stress on the turbo.

I won a turbosmart Kompact BOV on ebay but the freaking guy won't let me pay for it... go figure?

As soon as i get one I'll have it on the bike,

I should be taking it for its maiden test ride tomorrow!!!!

[Racer x]

Good luck be careful

[garth285]

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Shes boosted :-)

Started tuning just going up and down my block.
@Racer x I have a question for you if you bought your turbo from ecotrons, does the inlet for the oil line have a restriction in it?

[Racer x]

I don't think so. That was the balance. Restrict the inlet and measure the oil flow out. I was going to sorta use jets or a hose clamp on the outside of a hose.

[garth285]

Originally Posted by Racer x

I don't think so. That was the balance. Restrict the inlet and measure the oil flow out. I was going to sorta use jets or a hose clamp on the outside of a hose.

Well the tuning is coming along nicly, I wish there was an easier way to flash tune the ECU but I have to make a run, log it, and then make my map adjustments and then pull the ECU again to reflash it lol....

@Racer x I just saw thing I must have missed and this might be a issue... On the Ecotrons website at the bottom of the turbo specs theres a note:

Note: the Oil pressure need be about 20-30kPa

or 2.9psi - 4.4psi

So my problem is I am noticing some oil coming OUT of the compressor side not the turbine side. Doing some research I have only found people complaining mostly about oil coming out of the turbine side and causing smoke, which mine is not smoking....

EDIT - So after going out and looking at the turbo I notice there is some oil coming from the oil feed line fitting which is a M10 to 4an fitting..... I am going to see if that needs to be sealed up a little more but it still looked like oil was coming out of the compressor side.


Thoughts?

[Racer x]

The oil pressure going out of the engine is say 70 psi. If you restrict this to a very small orifice then a small volume of oil will come out of the orifice at 70 psi. The turbo is a restriction. If the turbo did not allow any oil flow the pressure would eventually reach 70 psi. So you allow enough oil to flow out of the turbo so the pressure between the orifice and the turbo is 30-40 Kpa.
That is what I am trying to figure out now.
40kpa =6 psi

[garth285]

10-4

I did quite a bit of research about the oil feed tonight, I found out that quite a few turbos need a restrictor jet to lower the pressure feeding the turbo.

Here is what I did for tonight (going to try it tomorrow)

I found I had just enough fittings and some nitrous pressure gauge adapter to run a 4an line to that and it has a 0-100 gauge on it, and then a outlet that I am able to install a nitrous jet into to test the restriction of the flow. I have it setup so the gauge is after the jet I will install and that will measure how much oil pressure goes to the turbo. I am going to first start the bike up and see what pressure it is at at idle and possibly chance it and rev it up a little to see what psi I'm getting.

I spoke to a turbo busa guy I know and he said it might have been pushing some oil past the seals and they might not be blown but I'll have to watch it.

I'll run it straight with no restrictor in it and then I'll run a nitrous jet in it to see what I get. I have a handful of jets on hand but I think my largest is a .053

I have seen many of the restrictors they are using .030-.055 So I should be able to find a jet that will be the right size for us.

I am just unsure of that psi number that ecotrons has in their instructions. It looks like its sorta translated so not 100% if its accurate. Most places online say 10psi min and 30psi max

[Racer x]

Just make sure the volume is good coming out. Someone must know a ruff estimate of the volume. We are heading into an untested area.

[garth285]

That is for sure!!!

Its so hard to find solid info online about these turbos but thats what happens when you are on a budget and have to give things a go lol.

On a good note, my setup spools at around 7000 rpm. I dont have my boost gauge in yet so when I get that I can confirm stock wastegate settings. I picked up a AEM Tru Boost gauge/controller pretty cheap. I can turn off the controller and run off wastegate but it will record max boost. I'll have a 100% for sure wastegate spring # for us when its setup.

I am going to work on the oil feed tomorrow sometime and do some more runs. I think my WOT area is almost dialed in as far as air fuel so thats a start. On my base mapping it was rich as can be up until 7k rpm so it was stumbling until it hit boost and then took off like a banshee.... Its going to be HELLA fun with the boosted 250. Even with 15/40 gearing it feels amazing in boost. The last run I did it started to lean out up top so I had to add some fuel but it is ripping so far!

MORE TO COME :-)

[Racer x]

This engine has an unbelievable ability to drink fuel. It is like lean lean lean and then by the time you get it right you can't believe it even ran before. I can burn half a gallon of race gas in a one run with warm up and two mile return ride. That is less than ten MPG!

[garth285]

Originally Posted by Racer x

This engine has an unbelievable ability to drink fuel. It is like lean lean lean and then by the time you get it right you can't believe it even ran before. I can burn half a gallon of race gas in a one run with warm up and two mile return ride. That is less than ten MPG!

Damn yeah thats crazy, I am running E85 to which consumes around 30-40% more fuel to!

I just switched to E85 on a built busa with spray and just a N/A motor needed 26% more fuel but the benefits are amazing. The bikie made 209hp on pump gas I'll have it on the dyno soon to see what it makes on E85

[garth285]

@Racer x - This morning I hooked up my gauge setup to the oil feed line. With no jetting I was getting about 25-30psi at idle and well over 50psi with a simple rev of the engine it look like it would only go to about 50psi though.

Looking at what almost all other turbos run for pressure which should be about 10psi at idle and 30psi max I installed a nitrous jet. The largest I had was a .053 installed I saw my idle pressure drop down to a little under 20 and revving it up I was still about 45psi.

I had a .034 jet I think it was and a .024 I decided to try out the .024 and I think thats going to be as close as well need it. I got 10-12psi at idle and revving it up it was only getting about 30psi! I took it for a ride and I saw no oil coming out of the compressor inlet so this is good news. Hopefully I did not cause any damage to the seals and just had some oil push threw.

So I will eventually run just a nitrous jet holder in between the oil feed lines and that should settle that hopefully!

[Racer x]

That is awsome. The final piece of the puzzle.

I have a friend with a 750 turbo on E85. I think it went 209 mph. The supercharged 350 Honda that just went 145 used methanol. With no intercooler I guess it's a must. I already have a five gloom tin of Race E85. Don't use pump E85 it is no consistent enough

[garth285]

Yeah I am running it on pump for right now until I get the tune close and then will switch over to E85R.

I am going to double check my oil pressures when I can have it on the dyno and see what at max RPM's the oil pressure is going to, I can always just keep decreasing the oil jets.

I think the problem with this VZ21 turbo is its size and how small it is, the oil flow is probably alot less than normal turbo's. I think I hit the neail on the head with the .024 jet though it looks right between that 10-30psi.

The only other thing I could think of is what oil you are using.

I am running Shell Rotella T full synthetic 5W-40 (dont judge me) lol


Back to the tuning!

[garth285]

@Racer x - I believe the wastegate is set to .5 Bar or 7.25psi

I hooked up the 1:1 on my FPR and it was going right about 51psi from what I can see.

Motor has held quite a few WOT runs so far. I am going to call it quits for the weekend though I am waiting for some more parts to come in

[Racer x]

That is what was expected. This is awsome, congratulations

[garth285]

My turbo oil pressure is spot on at 10-12psi at idle and 30-32psi at max. I let the bike sit and I just saw some oil seepage. I checked my oil return line and I am starting to think it might be low. I have a scavenge pump but its so bulky. I was looking at the one ECOTRONS has but its pricey for being most likely a chinese product.

I found a similar pump thats supposed to be very similar and flow slightly more. Its called a HEP-02A pump. I may attempt to run one of those and see how it acts. I think the oil is flowing threw the return line but I think it needs to be scavenged.

[Racer x]

I am going to run my return to the top of the clutch cover.

[garth285]

With a pump?

[Racer x]

No just let it gravity flow. I have a pump if I need it.

[garth285]

10-4 I think the turbo would have to be as high as the exhaust ports to gravity feed that high, would be nice though!

I picked up some fittings for a scavenger pump I have had which is a larger gear driven one, I'm going to run it on the dyno with this pump and monitor the turbo for any oil being pushed out.

I'd like to pick up a small inline pump for it though but most have small 5/16 ports in them so I'd have to reduce my 6an fittings down even more, but if its sucking the oil out of the turbo it will be a win.

[garth285]

@Racer x I'd start planning on having a scavenger pump. Just did a little experiment on mine and I think we may need them. I can mount my oil pump under my plenum and I think I'll have enough room for all fittings and lines. I just have to decide if I want to run braided lines or just clamp style. I like the braided lines now that I have them but they are a pain in the ass to assemble.

Anyways I ran the bike on the stand and with the pump not running it was starting to smoke a little, fire the pump up and smoke went away and oil was gone. The dyno will tell the take if this cures all the problems, I may even be able to pull the oil jet out if oil does not go past the intake seals. I am going to hard mount the oil pump and take it for a ride when its dry out within the next day or two and go from there!

I will keep you posted!

[choneofakind]

This bike gets my nomination for the bike with the most equipment packed into it. Competition is RacerX so far.

Looks great. Keep at it! I will admit that I completely doubted you at the beginning.

[garth285]

LOL Thanks! Yeah it kinda sucks theres so much stuff packed into it. It would have been much easier to start off with a ninja 300. Could have just upgraded the intake pump and injectors and gone from there. Fuel injection is key though. Oil for the turbo is vital for turbo life as well.

Wait til I have a boost gauge, oil pressure gauge and fuel pressure gauge hooked up lol.

[Bigballsofpaint]

Make a kit, i want it! Awesome job

[garth285]

I'll wind up selling the bike or parting it out eventually. Start saving that !

[Racer x]

If I run the pump to feed the turbo it will have seven PSI all the time. What do you think of that?
As far as complications go this turbo is very straight forward and simple. My nitrous bike is beyond complex. It is like a moon launch every time I run it. Part of the reason I wont take it to the salt. Complexity is not a virtue. It is just things that can go wrong or be out of adjustment.

[garth285]

That may or may not work. The turbo had journal bearings kind of like our crank bearings. If you loose that oil pressure the turbo shaft will ride the bearings which = bad. If I were you I'd pull the oil from the engine but you may be able to do it that way.

The 2 main things are turbo oil feed pressure and oil drainage.

My turbo is lower than yours so you might not need the scavenger pump and just run a drain line.

[Racer x]

Ya I think that should work. I wounder what happens if the oil pump is running. But the turbo is not spinning, Wont the dynamic seals just leak?

[garth285]

No they won't. It will not leak unless you over pressure the seals or do not drain it properly.

[garth285]

Picked up some good lines for the oil pump system today, if this works well I'll eventually swap it over to steel braided lines but for now I bought 3/8 transmission cooler hose which is good to 400psi and 300* F so it will be safe to run with that hot oil, the clear tubes were meant just to test the system.

I also am getting in my AEM Tru Boost gauge/controller so I'll be able to hook that up to the bike and see what actual PSI I am boosting to.

I also changed something for tuning. I was going to run the bike with no IAP sensor because kawi defaults to the RPM based mapping. Well turns out if that sensor is not it it will throw it into a limp type mode so what I did was run a T on that line and added a one way check valve so the IAP sensor will see vacuum but as soon as the turbo is making positive pressure it bleeds off and just see's 0.0 vacuum. This is what most everyone does I thought I could have gotten away with running it a different way but I'll run it this way and go from there.

Will keep you guys posted on boost numbers and oil system results lol

[Flying]

[garth285]

A small update... had a callout for work so I couldnt do everything I wanted to last night but I did get my boost gauge hooked up. Pretty neat little unit, I can run the turbo just off the wastegate or I can set two different boost levels and on top of that there is a scramble button that will give you a burst of higher boost with the touch of a button. I wont be able to use that but its a neat feature.

Have to pick up some fittings today for the boost controller solenoid and that will be done.

I'm having a problem with the tuning side, I'm working with some ECU tuners to sort the problem out but its just being unresponsive to my adjustments just at idle.

I should be on the dyno Saturday though to finally make some pulls!

[Racer x]

Scramble button. Haha I have one of those.

What rpm are you trying to idle? I am good with anything under 2000

[garth285]

1200-1500rpm's

Its very odd, anywhere I try to pull fuel in the entire IAP or RPM map from 0rpm to 2500rpm it does not lean out the idle. I'm getting 10.5-11.0 : 1 at idle lol......

The funky thing is, if I unplug the IAP sensor it goes to about 14.5:1

I am thinking there may be a cold start map that is messing me up.

[Jason5885]

Everything you are saying sounds very technical and confusing, im still enjoying this though!