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Old May 2nd, 2010, 09:42 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by sombo View Post
So who's gonna be the first to do the 650 engine swap?

FYI the external dimensions of the 650 are smaller then the 500.
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but how did they make it smaller (thinner walls)?
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Old May 2nd, 2010, 10:50 AM   #42
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It is smaller but then you get into the fuel injection crap. Also the mounts on the motor are not as easy to work with.
Ah, someone who gives the intelligent/tech related response that makes sense. Good to know that's the reason people don't try that. I personally like FI, but understand how hard it is to work with.

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Originally Posted by headshrink View Post
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but how did they make it smaller (thinner walls)?
Pretty much. Have to remember that the 500 was designed about 20 years ago and hasn't exactly changed since then. In that time technology has changed that allows for more strength out of less metal. So they were able to make it smaller with more displacement (I know sounds messed up).
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Old May 2nd, 2010, 11:19 AM   #43
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Have to remember that the 500 was designed about 20 years ago and hasn't exactly changed since then. In that time technology has changed that allows for more strength out of less metal. So they were able to make it smaller with more displacement (I know sounds messed up).
No, that actually makes a lot of sense. It is amazing how long some of this technology does lasts before being either redesigned, or retired.
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Old May 2nd, 2010, 08:35 PM   #44
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Also the 500 was in an if it aint broke don't fix it niche, due to not many entries in that sportbike displacement. Not in a class like 600cc where there is a 2 year cycle and then you better
a. drop a couple lbs
b. add a couple hp
c. all of the above
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Old May 2nd, 2010, 11:28 PM   #45
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This...is...Outstanding. I was debating on selling Ninjette (then stripped her and got a SF look, liking that, not liking thunderstorms on weather >.<) for SV650, but was never sold. Then saw an EX500 at a retailer, went "wow, the motors not much bigger", and for the past 2 days (oddly enough, on sync with this update), ive been thinking of how to do it.
Advantage - '96 EX500 motor about 30 miles away for only $250. running. Don't know about harnesses and such though...
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 08:20 AM   #46
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When kit ready, let me know. Me want.

This would be kick ass!
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 08:49 AM   #47
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The 500 motor is also a rather cost effective upgrade since they can normally be found for less money than the 250. To even consider making a kit for something like this, you need to make sure the raw parts are easy to obtain. Putting a 400cc motor in would have been ideal, but lack of availability certainly tossed that idea.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 08:56 AM   #48
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I love the idea.
The first thing my buddy and I talked about aber I bought it, was what motor to swap into that great handling chassis
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 09:35 AM   #49
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this is pretty cool.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 11:05 AM   #50
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I don't even own a Ninjette yet and I already want the kit.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 11:27 AM   #51
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I don't even own a Ninjette yet and I already want the kit.
If you are really serious about that, I strongly suggest either buying a used EX500, or going with something like the 650r. Unless you just like to make Frankenstein things I guess. If you have other bike you can ride, go for it. Otherwise, you are looking at spending more money for something that certainly isn't a guarantee, and was never really engineered. I get a strong impression from this thread, and even more from it's sister at KF, that there will probably not be a "kit" offered. I could be wrong, but that is how I read it.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 11:29 AM   #52
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Thats was more to keep vex from locking a perfectly good thread
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 11:40 AM   #53
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Thats was more to keep vex from locking a perfectly good thread
LOL - gotcha.... I can see that now
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 12:01 PM   #54
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If you do not know how to tig weld or do electric then this is certainly not the mod for you.
Looks like one of you needs to brush up on your "TIG" welding cuz that certainly looks a little sloppy.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 01:01 PM   #55
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Are you planning on doing a dyno chart when it's done? That would be interesting.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 04:06 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by headshrink View Post
If you are really serious about that, I strongly suggest either buying a used EX500, or going with something like the 650r. Unless you just like to make Frankenstein things I guess. If you have other bike you can ride, go for it. Otherwise, you are looking at spending more money for something that certainly isn't a guarantee, and was never really engineered. I get a strong impression from this thread, and even more from it's sister at KF, that there will probably not be a "kit" offered. I could be wrong, but that is how I read it.
I love this sort of thing. Sleepers and Frankensteins are awesome. Also low insurance costs. Also 50+hp in a 380lb, ultra-nible bike would be an absolute scream.

Hell, just knowing that it's possible/easy to do means I might end up doing a swap myself, especially if the fairings will still cover my ugly welds
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Old May 4th, 2010, 11:23 AM   #57
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Looks like one of you needs to brush up on your "TIG" welding cuz that certainly looks a little sloppy.
That is not my welding. Trust me.
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Old May 4th, 2010, 12:59 PM   #58
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Old May 4th, 2010, 01:01 PM   #59
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I think the engine would weigh more than the bike.
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Old May 4th, 2010, 01:22 PM   #60
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I think the engine would weigh more than the bike.
Yeah, that must be why there aren't any videos of one actually turning/cornering.

I guess we have to settle for the copycat.

Link to original page on YouTube.

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Old May 4th, 2010, 01:35 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Glacial View Post
I love this sort of thing. Sleepers and Frankensteins are awesome. Also low insurance costs. Also 50+hp in a 380lb, ultra-nible bike would be an absolute scream.

Hell, just knowing that it's possible/easy to do means I might end up doing a swap myself, especially if the fairings will still cover my ugly welds
A stock ninja 250 tips the scale at 382 lb. This would add more weight. From my experience with upping the power to just 30+ hp the Stock ninja suspension leaves something to be desired. The bike feels floaty when going hard with 30 hp. I have seen an ex 500 with 60 hp last week when I was on the dyno.So a heavy, week framed bike with double its intended power output.And I wont even guess at the torque increese . Would make for a FUN? Ride. I still love it
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Old May 4th, 2010, 01:54 PM   #62
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250 two stroke! Decrease the weight, add horsepower.

Still a neat idea if you have the 250 and happen to want/need a new motor.
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Old May 4th, 2010, 02:01 PM   #63
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I prefer the ninja 150rr a 40hp two stroke thats 100pounds lighter than the 250
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Old May 4th, 2010, 03:56 PM   #64
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A stock ninja 250 tips the scale at 382 lb. This would add more weight. From my experience with upping the power to just 30+ hp the Stock ninja suspension leaves something to be desired. The bike feels floaty when going hard with 30 hp. I have seen an ex 500 with 60 hp last week when I was on the dyno.So a heavy, week framed bike with double its intended power output.And I wont even guess at the torque increese . Would make for a FUN? Ride. I still love it
I'm excited
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Old May 4th, 2010, 05:31 PM   #65
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I love this sort of thing. Sleepers and Frankensteins are awesome. Also low insurance costs. Also 50+hp in a 380lb, ultra-nible bike would be an absolute scream.

Hell, just knowing that it's possible/easy to do means I might end up doing a swap myself, especially if the fairings will still cover my ugly welds
Insurance ain't gonna cover you if you wreck it and it's modified beyond what your policy will cover, which is usually no more than $1000 worth of parts. Oh, and they're gonna figure parts and labor at the "New from the manufacturer" rate for parts and the going rate per hour for the local shops. What you have there in the USA is a "Speciality Use Vehicle" for insurance purposes, which usually goes about one step below kit cars and kit bikes.

It's a horsepower to weight ratio issue for the performance, though! Looks like it may be a fun ride! It's like putting a top fuel dragster engine into a Manx dune buggy!
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Old May 4th, 2010, 06:23 PM   #66
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WHy would you want an 8,000 horsepower dune buggy.
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Old May 4th, 2010, 06:34 PM   #67
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That would be 40hp 125cc two stroke with an engine that weighs about40-50 pounds. But at that point do you just move down to a YSR and start rodding that up with the same 125cc engine? Only thing stopping me from doing this with my YSR is the lighting coil, want to keep it street "legal". Not sure how the frame would take the power, but people have done that and 250cc engines in them.
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Old May 4th, 2010, 09:36 PM   #68
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Quote:
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A stock ninja 250 tips the scale at 382 lb. This would add more weight. From my experience with upping the power to just 30+ hp the Stock ninja suspension leaves something to be desired. The bike feels floaty when going hard with 30 hp. I have seen an ex 500 with 60 hp last week when I was on the dyno.So a heavy, week framed bike with double its intended power output.And I wont even guess at the torque increese . Would make for a FUN? Ride. I still love it
Well, as a street bike, I think it would be just fine. I doubt I push the frame that hard even during WOT acceleration or my best street level corner carving.

The track may be a whole 'nother animal (the demands on the frame and suspension from a physics standpoint are on a different planet), but that's for ztrack et al to find out. I eagerly await the results.

Note: The above post does not come from an experienced racer or racing engineer. I am, however, a physics guy, and I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
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Old May 5th, 2010, 02:29 PM   #69
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WHy would you want an 8,000 horsepower dune buggy.
To say "I have a 8000 HP Dune Buggy". And to win every primal "bigger is better" arguement! You could have a +1000HP Bugati But That aint **** if I got an 8000HP Dune freekin Buggy. Its Very rediculous...I know.

This isnt me personally or most of the members here. If it were Id be on alot Stronger of a machine. But this is how alot of Americans think. Atleast the ones that throw practicality and common sense out the window just to impress others!!!
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Old May 5th, 2010, 05:35 PM   #70
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To say "I have a 8000 HP Dune Buggy". And to win every primal "bigger is better" arguement! You could have a +1000HP Bugati But That aint **** if I got an 8000HP Dune freekin Buggy. Its Very rediculous...I know.

This isnt me personally or most of the members here. If it were Id be on alot Stronger of a machine. But this is how alot of Americans think. Atleast the ones that throw practicality and common sense out the window just to impress others!!!
Hit the nail on the head. It's a literary technique called illustrating the absurd by being absurd.

There are three sizes in America: Big, Huge, and THE LARGEST FREAKIN' THING THERE IS. Not too long ago, a Big Gulp was the largest fountain soda you could buy at a 7-11, now, other than a 12oz can, it's the smallest drink in the store!
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Old May 8th, 2010, 08:54 PM   #71
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Very nice.... I've actually been collecting parts to plan for this, too. But I was keeping it secret... but since you did it first, lol, I don't feel so special anymore.
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Old May 9th, 2010, 12:36 AM   #72
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Does sportisi have a maounting kit for a vw W12?

No, really nice work. Did you use the exhaust pipe from the 500? What major problems did you run into while doing this besides mounting points?
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Old May 10th, 2010, 05:40 AM   #73
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its aliivee! will take clearer vid during dyno run
standard ninja 250r rear sprocket (45) the bike just want to wheelie around , so much torque!!!! first gear was soo longg unlike the ninja 250. need to change rear sprocket to 42
Handling is pretty much the same as 250 still NICE and Steady . Vibration is minimum . I really like this swap
Installed using custom header and Vr6 Muffler - sounded ANGRY, heavy growl like a harley :P LIKE IT A LOT

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Old May 10th, 2010, 06:26 AM   #74
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Green fairings? Oh no! Quick, throw some blue ones on there before Kelly comes in and says, "See? I've told you guys all along. The green ones are the fastest".
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Old May 10th, 2010, 07:32 AM   #75
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Dont worry Im gonna put a yellow one instead :P
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Old May 10th, 2010, 08:22 AM   #76
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Video of the wheelies plz!!!!
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Old May 10th, 2010, 09:54 AM   #77
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Good stuffs. Peeps in the us needs to follow suit

btw, sportisi needs a better camera. They have good stuffs but every single pic is like viewing with beer goggle.
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Old May 10th, 2010, 10:53 AM   #78
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EX500 Motors seem to go for 250 to 500 bucks.
Get that kit ready to ship
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Old May 10th, 2010, 10:58 AM   #79
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EX500 Motors seem to go for 250 to 500 bucks.
Get that kit ready to ship
Lets see how long that lasts after all the demand, lol.

AND expect that after Kawasaki gets wind of this that they bring the 500 back, redesigned.
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Old May 10th, 2010, 12:13 PM   #80
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WOW, that thing sound mean.
Not only is it a sleeper, fired up...everyone's gonna know its a sleeper. SICK.
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