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Old March 2nd, 2012, 05:59 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by setasai View Post
Possibly. I do have the O2 sensors installed. He said most of my issues could possibly be a autotune/time thing and work itself out. I am actually going to spend the day trying to make a new pulley and cable bracket. I want to use the decel cable. It's just safer and faster to have the decel cable installed.

I also want to swap out the idle setting screw to a nice allen type screw. It's this dumb star pattern and Matt says the screw comes with the throttle body when manufactured so he's not even sure what the thread specs are on it.

0.5mm thread pitch bolt in a 0.7 thread pitch hole. I forget what the diameter was. One thing for sure was that the bolt and the hole were not the same thread pitch so the thing was a nightmare to get out of there. Because the threads are going to be messed up anyway, I recommend drilling it out a size bigger and re-tapping it. Just make sure you drill the proper size hole which is smaller than the bolt size.

For the pulley, if you go with the washers, keep in mind that the holes must be nearly opposite the cable mount points. This is because the slits to get the wires in the holes must be parallel to the radius line. If not, then the cable nuts could have a tendency to pop out if the holes.

Its possible to use a round washer pulley, but its going to take a bit of calculating or trial and error to get everything to line up right, not pull out and still allow you to achieve WOT.

The round pulley is better than the two armed pulley, but somewhat harder to deal with.
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Old March 2nd, 2012, 06:09 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n4mwd View Post
0.5mm thread pitch bolt in a 0.7 thread pitch hole. I forget what the diameter was.

The round pulley is better than the two armed pulley, but somewhat harder to deal with.
Well that's dumb. I'll just leave it for now then.

I think I will go with the two armed pulley as well. Easier to fabricate. Lets see what I end up with.
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Old March 2nd, 2012, 07:33 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by setasai View Post
Well that's dumb. I'll just leave it for now then.

I think I will go with the two armed pulley as well. Easier to fabricate. Lets see what I end up with.
Then just download the PDF and cut out the patterns. You'll need to modify it a little to fit your quicksteel bolt holes.
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Old March 2nd, 2012, 09:09 PM   #44
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Then just download the PDF and cut out the patterns. You'll need to modify it a little to fit your quicksteel bolt holes.
Thanks. I did for the pulley, kinda. I'm going with something even simpler for the bracket. Looking at just a 5cm piece of 90deg aluminum angle with holes drilled into it.
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Old March 2nd, 2012, 10:21 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by setasai View Post
Thanks. I did for the pulley, kinda. I'm going with something even simpler for the bracket. Looking at just a 5cm piece of 90deg aluminum angle with holes drilled into it.
The problem with the two armed pulley is that the cable can't wrap around the circumference of the pulley so the nut travel has to be line of sight with the bracket.

Also, the radius is critical for the same reason. Unfortunately, this means you have to grind off part of the original TB bracket so that it doesn't hit.

The distances from the top of the bracket to the cable nuts are 60 and 70mm for the respective cables. I don't see how you are going to maintain the proper geometries with a straight bracket. Maybe if you used two pieces of angle attached to a center trunk with one higher for the decel cable.
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Old March 2nd, 2012, 10:43 PM   #46
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I'll test it out and let you know.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 06:19 PM   #47
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Soooo I've been lazy. I havent made the new pulley or bracket yet. But! I've been working with Matt to iron out some of the response issues I've been having and the stalling issues. Still not perfect but definitely improving.

How has everybody else been enjoying their EFI setup? Any new concerns or tweaks to the performance that you've been noticing?
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Old March 17th, 2012, 06:17 AM   #48
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So did you ever get the bugs ironed out and make your new pulley?
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Old March 17th, 2012, 09:41 AM   #49
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So did you ever get the bugs ironed out and make your new pulley?
So I never ended up making a new pulley. The accel pulley I have works quite well and so I didnt bother messing with it.

As for the issues. Most of the issues seem to be fixed. I dont stall at all anymore, and response is faster than it was before. I feel like sub 4k is a bit weak and I still think blipping is a little slow but we're looking into what can be done. It might need more tuning for the low rpm weak spot and the blipping might just be the TB design. Not totally sure yet. It has been raining almost daily for the last week so I havent been able to take it out for very many test runs.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 10:22 AM   #50
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How do you guys like the Ecotrons FI system so far? Would you do it again or rather just leave it as carb?
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Old March 19th, 2012, 11:18 AM   #51
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I would do it again. 50/50 on whether I would go with the OEM throttle body.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 12:22 PM   #52
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I would do it again too. It's been great fun with all that tinkering. Although, I think I would go with the OEM throttlebody, still might if I accidentally come across a good deal on one, at least until they make a better throttlebody that accommodates all the fundamental issues. Then I guess it'll be a tossup.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 12:53 PM   #53
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its been good for me too. i would do it again. i love being able to start the bike first time without having to mess with the chock etc. And i fixed the whole rubber rings on the TB. i just molded some quick steel to the TB and got different clamps and i get no poping off or slipping.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 03:10 PM   #54
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I would not buy the ecotrons kit knowing what I now know about it. Mine is for sale if you want one. The throttle body is the biggest obstacle and most agree with that too. The OEM TB is the best solution but unfortunately it is expensive and in short supply.

The people who have had seamless and flawless installs have consistently been those that have used the OEM TB. The people that have had problems have pretty much universally been those using the kit TB.

Matt told me that he plans to come out with a new throttle body one day, but that there are other priorities right now. That is, he has no definite timetable for a new TB.

The other thing I am not especially thrilled with is the ECU. While the ECU doesn't seem to be having any major problems, the fact that its closed source and closed architecture bugs me. No real problem with it other than that. The Microsquirt ECU is both open source and open architecture. This is what Greg737 uses I believe. That is, you can download the schematic and build your own if you wanted to. Should it ever fail, there are a number of manufacturers that can sell you a new one.

If I get a good TB, I may try the kit again, but as of right now, its clear that the reliability isn't there.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 03:38 PM   #55
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The Microsquirt ECU is both open source and open architecture. This is what Greg737 uses I believe. That is, you can download the schematic and build your own if you wanted to. Should it ever fail, there are a number of manufacturers that can sell you a new one.
Yes, I use the Microsquirt ECU. Love it, it's a very good product from some guys who really know FI. My Microsquirt is now known as "the old version" as the people at Bowling&Grippo have come out with a better, smaller version of the Microsquirt ECU.

One correction about what you said regarding the Microsquirt: The Microsquirt is really small and uses tiny surface-mount components which would make it difficult to work on at home (at least I don't think I'm up to the task of de-soldering, removing and re-soldering those itty-bitty components). The other Bowling&Grippo products, the Megasquirt ECUs are all built with larger components and are commonly sold as kits and build at home by people with very little prior electronics experience.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 07:18 PM   #56
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I searched for microsquirt, but megasquirt stuff keeps coming up so its easy to get them confused.

In any event, if you go to http://www.msextra.com and browse around, you'll see that micro/mega squirt modules are far more advanced than the ecotrons ECU. And VASTLY better supported.

Here are the microsquirt schematics...

The source code is also there and even includes compilation instructions.

Although probably not recommended, it IS possible to build your own from scratch. And its even more possible for a 3rd party to repair a broken squirt since the architecture is open. Not only that, but I briefly looked at the source and it appears to be Linux based. That means that it could be programmed to do anything that any other Linux can do. (Think WiFi, USB, Internet, etc.)

I am definitely envious of that ECU.
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Old March 21st, 2012, 11:58 AM   #57
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Just updating you guys on what I've done now. Haven't really posted much lately. I've done a few things to make my life easier for my particular set up. First, I've cut off the little ring on the frame on the right side under the gas tank since I have never used it anyway, looks like something wires are supposed to go through but they never were so it was pointless, that freed up enough room for me to flip my air filters upside down. This allowed me to take the boots off of the throttlebody so I could directly mount my air filters to the TB (which is extremely nice by the way) I also removed my deceleration cable entirely from the bike. With these changes, there is now zero stress caused by contacting parts with the frame to pop the TB off of cylinder 2 and my filters are much more secure as they had a tendency to fall off if I used the boots.
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Old March 25th, 2012, 04:03 PM   #58
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You guys that have completed the install, check out this thread ....

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=99216

Your posted results would be appreciated.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 03:33 PM   #59
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you'll see that micro/mega squirt modules are far more advanced than the ecotrons ECU.
Such statement requires substantial proof and knowledge.

MegaSquirt ECUs are designed to have one ECU to control all kinds of engines, all functions in one box. The result is to have coarse controls for every individual function. On one side, you don't need those 8 injector / 8 ignition drivers, obviously a waste or overkill; and on the other side, for each specific engine application, it is lack of details.

Some examples: to use a Mega/Micro squirt ECU to run a Ninja 250r engine, you will,
1) have to run batch fuel injections, not sequential fuel injections. What's the difference? you can google it.
2) not have ignition control capability because of unique stock pickup.
3) run with one oxygen sensor only, which will not be able to control AFR for each individuual cylinder.
4) no self-diagnosis capability.

Open source does not mean better. Not many people can modify the MegaSquirt ECU code or solder a Megasquirt ECU board. It is just for those who have rich electronics and software expereince.

This is not to understate Greg's achievement. I mean, he has done a great job by doing the whole project alone. I don't know whether he's got "VASTLY supported"; I know he's gone through tons of work for sure.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 03:35 PM   #60
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MOTM - Apr '13
Aww guys! Just realized my ecotrons kit got totally destroyed in my accident! Guess I'll have to claim it and have insurance order me a new one
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Old April 9th, 2012, 03:38 PM   #61
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You can send me the bits of the broken one ;-)
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Old April 9th, 2012, 03:39 PM   #62
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Hah, maybe
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Old April 9th, 2012, 03:52 PM   #63
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Matt told me that he plans to come out with a new throttle body one day, but that there are other priorities right now. That is, he has no definite timetable for a new TB.
I have not said that Ecotrons got other higher priorities over this kit. Only to make TB redesigning and fabrications takes time.

Now we have a timetable: it will be available in 3 weeks or sooner.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 06:44 PM   #64
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Aww guys! Just realized my ecotrons kit got totally destroyed in my accident! Guess I'll have to claim it and have insurance order me a new one
Yours was still in the box. Was it strapped on the back or something?

Mine is still for sale if you want it. But if Matt sends a new TB with a new fuel rail, then I might keep it. I just bought new carb rebuild kits, but if new TB's are coming in three weeks, then I can probably wait. That would roughly be the first week in May.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 06:47 PM   #65
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Yours was still in the box. Was it strapped on the back or something?
You sure about that?
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Old April 9th, 2012, 07:23 PM   #66
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You sure about that?
Did you ever install it?
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Old April 9th, 2012, 07:29 PM   #67
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lol talking about installs and such. how is everyone still doing? since no one as posted i guess everything is still running good?

Mine as been up and running everyday as my DD and every other weekend its done over 250 mile trip. i got alot of miles on mine now.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 07:29 PM   #68
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Did you ever install it?
Haha naw, but I think during the rebuild would be a perfect time. I'll probably have the mechanic do it for me
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Old April 9th, 2012, 07:30 PM   #69
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Did you ever install it?
just install urs man. or buy some UK ninja carbs off matt. better than letting ur hard work and money just sit there
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Old April 9th, 2012, 07:32 PM   #70
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Who me or n4?
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Old April 9th, 2012, 08:03 PM   #71
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just install urs man. or buy some UK ninja carbs off matt. better than letting ur hard work and money just sit there
Matt says he's going to have new Throttle Bodies available in three weeks (hopefully better ones). I'll wait till then. Been trying to find reasonable priced ones on ebay, but no luck yet.

Why haven't you guys who have installed your kit done your 0-60 videos yet? Jiggles and I both did our videos, but we haven't installed the kits yet.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 08:30 PM   #72
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Matt says he's going to have new Throttle Bodies available in three weeks (hopefully better ones). I'll wait till then. Been trying to find reasonable priced ones on ebay, but no luck yet.

Why haven't you guys who have installed your kit done your 0-60 videos yet? Jiggles and I both did our videos, but we haven't installed the kits yet.
i would but my speedo isnt working well it is but very noisey so i took it off think my speedo guage is broken bc its not the cable or the guy at the wheel. Unless u guys can calculate when im in 60 ill gladly do it i got gopro ready

granted i have 15/42 gearing too.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 08:31 PM   #73
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Who me or n4?
just n4,


and yeah that would be sweet to see some new throttle bodies. Least some minor changes like the MAP thing. cant wait but my tb hasnt given me issues yet
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Old April 9th, 2012, 08:59 PM   #74
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just n4,


and yeah that would be sweet to see some new throttle bodies. Least some minor changes like the MAP thing. cant wait but my tb hasnt given me issues yet
I'm very picky about the reliability of things like this. Many of the parts are not road replaceable so a failure means towing it home. The biggest problem with the throttle body was the fuel rail. So I hope he has that fixed. The throttle body itself wasn't that bad except that I had to put the proper pulley bracket on it. The map sensor port is easily moved to a better location.

I also noticed the other day that the OEM TB has barbed throttle ports. The barbs prevent it from blowing off during a backfire. The ecotrons TB that I have has no such barbs. Anyhow, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 09:11 PM   #75
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i would but my speedo isnt working well it is but very noisey so i took it off think my speedo guage is broken bc its not the cable or the guy at the wheel. Unless u guys can calculate when im in 60 ill gladly do it i got gopro ready
does your tach work? play with the numbers on the gearing thing on faq.ninja250.org, and we can base your speed off your tach and gear the error is plus or minus .25 seconds, so that should be covered in the error I set up
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Old April 9th, 2012, 09:43 PM   #76
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I'm very picky about the reliability of things like this. Many of the parts are not road replaceable so a failure means towing it home. The biggest problem with the throttle body was the fuel rail. So I hope he has that fixed. The throttle body itself wasn't that bad except that I had to put the proper pulley bracket on it. The map sensor port is easily moved to a better location.

I also noticed the other day that the OEM TB has barbed throttle ports. The barbs prevent it from blowing off during a backfire. The ecotrons TB that I have has no such barbs. Anyhow, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
yeah cant wait to see the new one
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Old April 9th, 2012, 09:45 PM   #77
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does your tach work? play with the numbers on the gearing thing on faq.ninja250.org, and we can base your speed off your tach and gear the error is plus or minus .25 seconds, so that should be covered in the error I set up
yeah tach works. ill check out that gearing thingy and see where my 60 is. maybe ill do it tomorrow.

edit: with tires and gearing accounted for looks like redlining 2nd gear is 61mph. see what i can do.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 04:36 AM   #78
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yeah tach works. ill check out that gearing thingy and see where my 60 is. maybe ill do it tomorrow.

edit: with tires and gearing accounted for looks like redlining 2nd gear is 61mph. see what i can do.
Does your odometer work correctly? It runs off the same cable. I know there are some guys here that bought one of those electronic Ninja Dashes. Not sure how good they are, but they seem to like them.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 10:22 AM   #79
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Does your odometer work correctly? It runs off the same cable. I know there are some guys here that bought one of those electronic Ninja Dashes. Not sure how good they are, but they seem to like them.
no doesnt bc i took the cable out. I think the little gear in the dash that moves the odometer and speedometer are ruined. bc thats all it could be.
and u mean the koso? i think bc my tach still works ill just throw in a cheap gps and i got a speedo lol.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 12:09 PM   #80
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no doesnt bc i took the cable out. I think the little gear in the dash that moves the odometer and speedometer are ruined. bc thats all it could be.
and u mean the koso? i think bc my tach still works ill just throw in a cheap gps and i got a speedo lol.
That would make a good speedometer, but its not so great for the odometer. The Koso runs about $250 depending on the options. You can get an OEM one on ebay for about $30. Can't buy a GPS for that.
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