2005 kawi ninja 250r Running issues.

[Ninjas]

Hi all. Any and all advice is welcome.

I bought the bike privately owned for $400, 8500 on the odo, I've checked the petcock, fuel lines, cleaned the carbs, main and idle jets, float valves, bowl interiors, checked for carb boot leaks. I'm not finding the issue that I am having with my bike. I can get it to run very breifly, though with assistance of carb starting fluid. Even then she will run very roughly. Since sunday, when I took her home I was abled to get her to run long enough to ride her for less than a mile before she died on me. I can't get her to run as good as that day to even listen to the engine while running for any problematic indications.

Any help appreciated, advice is welcome. I hope to have her back on the road soon.

[ducatiman]

i'd discontinue the starting fluid...permanent damage to the carb diaphragms can (and will) occur.

No mention of spark plugs...have you pulled, inspected, cleaned or replaced?

Ditto air filter...free & clear?

Is fuel actually reaching the carb bowls? Confirm by loosening drain bolt...approx 45cc should drain from each bowl.

Are you cranking using full choke? No choke?

[Z1R rider]

Have you checked to see if there is gas in the carbs? If not that is the first step after it dies, loosen the drain screws on the bottom of the carbs. To check fuel flow, pull the vacuum hose off of the petcock and put on a short hose to suck on to make sure the petcock is working. If there's gas in the bowls, then I'd bet that the carbs are not clean, not just the jets but also the passages behind the jets, can be very tough to get those clean. Normally just spraying carb cleaner will not do the job.


Gordon types faster than I do!

[ducatiman]

Originally Posted by Z1R rider

the passages behind the jets, can be very tough to get those clean. Normally just spraying carb cleaner will not do the job.

Gordon types faster than I do!

and has been known to do a pretty good job on them passages, too

[Ninjas]

Originally Posted by ducatiman

i'd discontinue the starting fluid...permanent damage to the carb diaphragms can (and will) occur.

No mention of spark plugs...have you pulled, inspected, cleaned or replaced?

Ditto air filter...free & clear?

Is fuel actually reaching the carb bowls? Confirm by loosening drain bolt...approx 45cc should drain from each bowl.

Are you cranking using full choke? No choke?

I've stop using carburetor fluid, I've yet to replace the spark plugs, air filter is clean and clear. As far as fuel reaching the bowls, I've attempted to drain the bowls, not a drop of fuel came out. As for choke, I get nothing with half or full choke.

[Ninjas]

Thanks to The both of you, I now have those steps mentioned to do;
1. Check / replace spark plugs (more than likely NGK) I've had good results with NGK.
2. Checking the petcock as suggested.
3. Checking the float bowls once again.

I'll be going down the list as it's numbered, as a process of elimination.

[ducatiman]

right to the petcock...is it the stock OEM vacuum actuated type?

Is the vacuum hose attached from petcock to the vacuum barb at the LH carb?

[Ninjas]

It is vacuum actuated, and flows only on reserve when i crank the motor. (Found this out by removing the main fuel hose from the carb)

I've just tried sucking on the vac portion of the petcock as suggested, but nothing at all now. But I do get a distinctive feel that the petcock valve is opening and closing per "suck" lol as weird as that sounds. I'll be replacing this petcock as soon as I can, spark plugs I can replace tonight. Sounds to me the fuel delivery is my main problem,

[Ninjas]

I was wrong. The carburetors are refusing the flow of fuel. If that is the case, then a port / valve / hose may well be clogged somewhere im assuming.

[ducatiman]

its conceivable the float valves are stuck closed, rotted fuel, extended sitting the cause

looks like a carb pull in your immediate future

[Ninjas]

Originally Posted by ducatiman

its conceivable the float valves are stuck closed, rotted fuel, extended sitting the cause

looks like a carb pull in your immediate future

I was hoping I could avoid that lol. I'll be getting to it then. Thank you

[Ninjas]

Both bowls are getting fuel and not over flowing. I'm going to reassemble everything and see if that will do me any better than before. Wish me better results

[Ninjas]

She didn't start, but I can say she's getting fuel now that I removed, inspected, and made sure fuel was going to the bowls. Petcock seems to be fine, next up, good ol' sparkies. Those will be tomorrow, bright and early. Thank you for your help thus far Ducatiman and Z1R Rider

[Ninjas]

Always some sort of delay on getting my bike running. The sparkies had to be preordered and won't be in until mid-day sadly. By that time it may be too hot for me to want to work on her.

[Ninjas]

So while I'm waiting on my new sparkies, I took the old ones out and cleaned them, reinstalled after verifying a .030 gap, she sputtered during the first few seconds of starting, nothing more than that afterwards. Recharging the battery and we shall see if that helps.

[Triple Jim]

Do you know if the pilot jets and associated passages are clean?

[Ninjas]

I just checked for spark from the sparkies, doesn't look nearly enough of a spark to get her going. I have no way of testing the cdi, but the starter relay is working well.

[Ninjas]

Also, she sputters when I first attempt to start her, especially after removing and reinstalling the sparkies. I heard 4 sputters this time around. No carb starting fluid, straight fuel from the carbs.

[Ninjas]

She is getting fuel, there is some spark, both left and right plugs. I'm hoping their not too weak to fire.

[Ninjas]

New sparkies came in, going to go pick them up and install them after setting the gap. Wonder what will happen....

[Ninjas]

F.M.L... IT WAS THE SPARKIES! She fired up, idles just under 2k, b3ut she started doing something weird between 500-1.5k rpms. (When warm)

[Ninjas]

Thank you Gordon, Jim and Roger for your most appreciated thoughts, tips and suggestions. All that is left to this point is figuring out why she wont run while warmed up.

[Triple Jim]

You're certainly welcome, but all you've told us about your current problem is that it does something weird.

[Ninjas]

The thanks was for my previous, none starting issue. My new issue of course is when the bike is warm, she fires, but will not even fire without half to full throttle. She has compression, idle returns to normal after throttling, no high idle, etc. I'm wondering since it's intercooled, if reaching a certain temp is preventing it from running. The temp gauge doesn't even climb 1/4 of the way to the redline.

[Triple Jim]

There is nothing intercooled on a ninja 250... maybe you meant something else.

Not wanting to start without opening the throttle is a sign that it's getting flooded. One possible cause is a float valve that's not working properly. It could be sticking open, have dirt in it, a sunken float, etc.. I suppose an extremely rich idle setting could cause symptoms like that too, but I doubt if you can adjust the idle mixture screws that rich. Gordon may know the answer to that.

[Ninjas]

The overflow tube is not flowing out gas. Possibly could be a sunken float. I didn't use a rebuild kit, though I probably could have benefited by using a kit. I'll have to take another peak inside my carbs and hopefully find the issue.

[ducatiman]

if, after your 2nd attempt, you still have difficulty...I stand at the ready, consider my services. Getting these things truly clean and setup correctly is tricky...requiring specialized equipment and some experience.

Some positive forum feedback can be found here https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=239678

Click the Custom Carb Service link below to see what I do, and some in-process photo's.

Here's a taste...

[Z1R rider]

^^^^, I've not heard a bad word about Gordon's services, unless your on the path to teach yourself about cleaning and adjusting these carbs (which can be quite frustrating and require many installs and pull'em off agains) sending them to Gordon would be time and money well spent.

[Ninjas]

Gordon, what is your usual rate + parts? I'll let you know whether it's something I can afford, or will have to save to do. Shipping itself might be a decent penny I think as well.

[ducatiman]

ty Z1.

I respect anyone's efforts...but there comes a point where repeated carb removals/installs gets annoying and frustrating. They are tricky to get right the first time.

Sodablasting works on the principle of erosion, though driven via compressed air....the soda just abrasive enough..non damaging but effectively carries crap out...cleans both smooth surfaces and crevices.

Followed by ultrasonic at 150 F (or more), then immediately removing and blowing out the hidden circuit passageways with compressed air...(while carb still smokin' hot) really clears in a way that can't be duplicated in a home setting.

I've refined my efforts (as a pro) over a few years now. Well beyond a simple "carb clean"....my refurb service turns the clock back to zero.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program......

[ducatiman]

Ninjas..just sent you a PM with details.

Shipping just $13 via USPS Priority (using their medium, flat rate box) Its a 2 to 3 day service...quite affordable, trackable, too.

[Ninjas]

Thank you for the pm. I received the notification. I'll definitely like to keep in touch, might be abled to move forward in the beginning of june.

[Ninjas]

And you are right z1. I was on the path of wanting to make the repairs myself, but Am realizing the reality of the scope of which that I cannot do, without adequate tools. A few screw drivers, an adjustable wrench and socket drives just won't cut it lol. Local prices in Arizona are sort of high, which is also why I chose a DIY route.

[Ninjas]

Not sure if it's just me, but some of the messages I've posted haven't appeared. Might be me being a phone user. Anyway. Thank you Gordon for the pm, and I would like to keep in touch. Roughly the beginning of June I should be good to go.

Disregard this post, just realized my posts were coming through, albeit a little sluggishly.

[Ninjas]

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

Do you know if the pilot jets and associated passages are clean?

Jim, I feel like I neglected your question.

Both main and idle jets are completely free of debris, all of the little holes, as I'll describe it, are not obstructed. As for "associated passages" I was only abled to clean what I was abled to get to. I didn't disassemble the carb completely as Gordon had helpfully shown in the photo.

[Ninjas]

Just an update as far as the bike goes.
For a reason beyond me, the bike is now back firing through the intake/carbs. Only once did the bike backfire through the exhaust from the right hand cylinder.

[Triple Jim]

Have you checked the valves?

[Ninjas]

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

Have you checked the valves?

No I haven't. I haven't had experience with valves on a 4stroke engine. Though I was suspecting it as a possibility as well. Though I'm back to the point of not having the necessary tools, since I'm sure the valves are controlled by rockers. I wouldn't have the necessary tools required to properly set them.

[Ninjas]

Jim, at most I'll be able to remove the head and look to see if theres an open valve. I did find a decent video in which shows and describes the process, I'll post the link to it later today.

[Triple Jim]

You don't have to remove a head, just the valve cover, and use a feeler gauge with the crank at the proper position to check clearance. Read the procedure before you do more work than you need to.