November 14th, 2012, 03:25 PM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Al
Location: NorCal
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2007 EX250F Posts: 19
|
Unusual oil leak from crankcase seal
I've been going through all the respective Ninja 250 communities looking for people who have had this problem, and have seen nothing like this.
I saw a leak down around there, and wiped the engine spotless. Rode to work and found the leak spot, circled in green+red. So this spot is the source of the leak, no doubt about it. Crankcase breather hose is not clogged, oil level is not too high. Crankcase has never been apart. Bolts are torque'd to spec. The leak was very likely caused by gasoline getting into the crankcase (Thanks, n4mwd!), and I don't lose oil to the point where I need to add more, but it looks bad and I want to fix it. 2 options that I can think of: exterior application of silicone high-temp RTV sealant, or split the case and re-seal the whole thing. What's the process on dropping the lower half of the crankcase--or is that an extreme PITA? Last futzed with by xanderick; November 14th, 2012 at 09:27 PM. Reason: Updated cause of leak |
|
November 14th, 2012, 03:41 PM | #2 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
|
to split it you would need to drop the engine, drain all the fluids, remove about 30+ bolts along with the water pump, oil pump, clutch hub, starter, and various other little nice things. after that its a flat surface between the two bottomend halves that you would scrape clean and flat with a razor. and irregularity should be cleaned up with a fine sanding block and cleaned well. then hondabond the perimeter and reassemble.
i doubt putting some rtv on the outside will do anything. the fact that its leaking makes you assume the case has been split before which makes you assume that it has had the tranny or bottom end or something replaced which is kinda scary i guess.
__________________________________________________
|
|
November 14th, 2012, 03:50 PM | #3 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Al
Location: NorCal
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2007 EX250F Posts: 19
|
Quote:
|
|
|
November 14th, 2012, 04:01 PM | #5 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Al
Location: NorCal
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2007 EX250F Posts: 19
|
No, but the original owners sold it to me with 5,000 miles. Had maintenance records and everything. The bike was super-clean at the time, no evidence of any tinkering of any sort, everything original.
So is it possible that the case has been split? Yes, it's possible, assuming the original owners lied to me. But really, really, really unlikely. I think we're much better off assuming that it hasn't been apart. This leak started after I had the bike for 5 months and 10,000 miles. |
|
November 14th, 2012, 04:02 PM | #6 |
I told you bro
Name: Noor
Location: Austin, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1996 Ninja 250r Posts: 680
|
you sure it's leaking from there? Maybe you just forgot to clean some road grime in that area. Trying cleaning that same exact spot again and seeing if it's actually leaking from that same.
No idea why anyone called these bikes bullet proof; they require a lot of maintenance but I think it's fun/worth it in the end. |
|
November 14th, 2012, 04:05 PM | #7 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
|
compared to many older engines these engines will take more than their fair share of a beating. i agree with monkey; to me it looks like splatter from the front wheel.
try tilting the bike toward that spot so you get oil up in there and see if you can get it to leak more
__________________________________________________
|
|
November 14th, 2012, 04:38 PM | #8 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Al
Location: NorCal
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2007 EX250F Posts: 19
|
Yes, I'm sure--"no doubt about it" means "no doubt about it". I have cleaned and checked this multiple times; the results are repeatable and consistent. It only leaks when the bike is warm and running. And let's call it a "seep" rather than a leak. It's been doing this for 2 months and the oil still isn't low enough to require adding more. |
|
|
November 14th, 2012, 04:50 PM | #9 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
|
ok you seem very confident in your conclusions without stating really any concrete observations that lead to those conclusions. from what you have told us it might as well be a front brake fluid leak. if you can't replicate the leak in a "clean" environment (ie- bike holding still where you can watch it leak) then chances are something more is going on. why dont you warm the bike up to temperature then tilt it forward and to the right. if it doesn't leak with warm oil sitting on it then something else is going on.
and if it is really leaking so slowly that it only makes a few drops every month, who cares? just clean the few drops of oil up when you notice it.
__________________________________________________
|
|
November 14th, 2012, 05:11 PM | #10 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: .
Location: .
Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14
|
I've got a similar "seep" out of the little twist cap that covers the place where you can put a ratchet on the crank and turn it for a valve adjustmet. I just wipe it once a season and call it a day. My
|
|
November 14th, 2012, 05:12 PM | #11 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
|
theres supposed to be a rubber o ring that fits into those to stop that... its like $1 oem
__________________________________________________
|
|
November 14th, 2012, 05:14 PM | #12 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: .
Location: .
Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14
|
Oh! Cool! Thanks alex. I'll look into that. Maybe I lost that.
|
|
November 14th, 2012, 05:27 PM | #13 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
|
i only know this because i accidentally dropped it and put it back on without the oring and it leaked a little bit until i replaced the oring
__________________________________________________
|
|
November 14th, 2012, 05:51 PM | #14 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Al
Location: NorCal
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2007 EX250F Posts: 19
|
Quote:
|
|
|
November 14th, 2012, 05:54 PM | #15 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
|
you might want to double check the torque on the bolts around that area just to be on the safe side
__________________________________________________
|
|
November 14th, 2012, 06:07 PM | #16 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Al
Location: NorCal
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2007 EX250F Posts: 19
|
Checked 'em once, will check them again. I would love for that to be the issue, but with my luck it probably isn't.
|
|
November 14th, 2012, 08:13 PM | #17 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
|
Another thing that can cause a leak between the two halves is gasoline in the oil. Sometimes the petcock fails and gas seeps into the oil through the carburetor. Gasoline can eat right through RTV. Might want to check that.
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED! |
|
November 14th, 2012, 08:46 PM | #18 |
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
Location: Newnan, GA
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.
|
I can think of one type of maintenance that may have required a opening the cases within 5,000 miles and wouldn't be in the regular service records: CRASH RESTORATION! If that happened then it may not even be the original engine... or 5,000-mile odometer for that matter.
Last futzed with by CZroe; November 15th, 2012 at 11:46 AM. |
|
November 14th, 2012, 09:14 PM | #19 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Al
Location: NorCal
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2007 EX250F Posts: 19
|
Quote:
For my last bike, it was the petcock--it actually messed with the cam chain tensioner and caused a cam chain failure at only 2500 miles. I was not mechanically inclined at the time, so I never knew what killed the bike until it was too late. The petcock on my current 07 Ninja is fine, but the float valves were sticking open. I fixed that quickly and changed my oil. Not soon enough for the crankcase seal, obviously... Still no way to stop the leak now that it's started, unless I pull the engine and go through splitting and re-sealing the crankcase.
__________________________________________________
Touring on a 250? You betcha! |
|
|
November 14th, 2012, 09:23 PM | #20 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
|
Quote:
1986 EX250EE000001 1987 EX250EE008??? 1988 EX250EE015170 1989 EX250EE053??? 1990 EX250EE058??? 1991 EX250EE073??? 1992 EX250EE088??? 1993 EX250EE101??? 1994 EX250EE118??? 1995 EX250EE127??? 1996 EX250EE137??? 1997 EX250EE149??? 1998 EX250EE151??? 1999 EX250EE158??? 2000 EX250EE16???? 2001 EX250EE167??? 2002 EX250EE170??? 2003 EX250EE18???? 2004 EX250EEA00001 Start of assembly in Thailand 2005 EX250EEA084?? 2006 EX250EEA16??? 2007 EX250EEA29???
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED! |
|
1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
November 14th, 2012, 09:24 PM | #21 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
|
Quote:
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED! |
|
|
November 14th, 2012, 09:32 PM | #22 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Al
Location: NorCal
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2007 EX250F Posts: 19
|
Heh, hopefully I can just keep wiping it for the forseeable future. Not eager to pull the engine apart any time soon, that's for certain.
__________________________________________________
Touring on a 250? You betcha! |
|
November 14th, 2012, 09:39 PM | #23 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Al
Location: NorCal
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2007 EX250F Posts: 19
|
Also, the carb overflow tube is pretty useless. Other bikes I've had would leak gas out of the overflow tube when the float valves stuck. Never on my Ninja 250. I played with the hose routing, checked for blockages and everything. Seems like maybe it's a Kawi/Keihin design flaw.
__________________________________________________
Touring on a 250? You betcha! |
|
November 14th, 2012, 09:40 PM | #24 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
|
Quote:
You might think about it if you have any long down time.
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED! |
|
|
November 14th, 2012, 09:47 PM | #25 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Al
Location: NorCal
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2007 EX250F Posts: 19
|
I may do that. I'd like to do it just to have the experience, honestly. Only issue is I can't afford any downtime for the bike. It's my only vehicle.
There's a DIY motorcycle shop I go to, might be able to knock the project out over a weekend. Otherwise I'll let it seep.
__________________________________________________
Touring on a 250? You betcha! |
|
November 14th, 2012, 10:12 PM | #26 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
|
Quote:
Its basically three steps. 1) Drain all the fluids and get it off the bike. 2) split the engine and reseal it. 3) Reinstall the engine. There are a lot of time killers like cleaning the gasket faces and waiting for the gasket remover stuff to dissolve them. Then repainting the paint that they accidentally eat off. Anyhow, if you get like a week off, I would think that is reasonable to get it done provided you already have all the gaskets and HondaBond HT. Don't count on dealers to stock the parts you might need. They never do seems like.
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED! |
|
|
November 14th, 2012, 10:37 PM | #27 |
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
Location: Newnan, GA
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.
|
Damn. My bike's petcock does leak and my oil always smells of gas. I believe I've got the same defect many of our Ninjette's have with the incomplete teflon ring.
|
|
November 14th, 2012, 10:40 PM | #28 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Calvin
Location: Quesnel, B.C
Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 250R (sold), 2013 300SE Posts: 276
|
Blah-blah-blah. . . Take a bar of soap (sunlight laundry bar) rub it back and forth along the seam. Wipe off any large chunks with your finger. Go ride your bike.
|
|
November 14th, 2012, 11:23 PM | #29 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Al
Location: NorCal
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2007 EX250F Posts: 19
|
Quote:
Also check gas level in carbs in case it's your float valves/height/etc. Maybe you know the procedure to that, maybe not--but here's an illustrated guide I made a few months back. Explains way better than words alone: note: I originally made this for a friend, the bit about the CB400t refers to an old Honda he and I had worked on prior to looking at my Ninja 250
__________________________________________________
Touring on a 250? You betcha! |
|
|
November 15th, 2012, 06:02 AM | #30 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
|
I also need to point out that if you have gas in the oil, then the oil is pretty much useless and not lubricating the engine. So you shouldn't ride it like that if you like your bearings - especially at higher RPM's. If you mess up your bearings, you wont have a choice about splitting the case.
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED! |
|
November 15th, 2012, 10:07 AM | #31 | ||
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
Location: Newnan, GA
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
Quote:
Last futzed with by CZroe; November 15th, 2012 at 11:50 AM. |
||
|
November 15th, 2012, 10:12 AM | #32 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
|
how does the gas get into the oil? leaks into the cylinder then gets around the rings and skirt?
__________________________________________________
|
|
November 15th, 2012, 10:24 AM | #33 | |
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
Location: Newnan, GA
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
|
|
|
November 15th, 2012, 10:47 AM | #34 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
|
leaks down the intake right? shouldn't the rings and oil skirt keep it in the cylinder for at least a little while? i mean if it was leaking a lot you would seriously damage the engine when you went to start it? (think hydrolock but with an explosion) so it would have to be a very slow leak over a long time huh? but if it gets ridden every day i would think that small leak would get burned up before it really had a chance to get anywhere. unless it was just sitting for a long time (right before the PO sold it?) it makes sense for where its leaking... the gas would drip down the intake into the cylinder then to the ex. side of the cylinder and down the sides of the case and would pass right over that area as it makes its way down into the bottom of the case...
__________________________________________________
|
|
November 15th, 2012, 10:58 AM | #35 | |
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
Location: Newnan, GA
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
Good thing I have a backup Ninjette, but I really am concerned about this possibility. It does seem to explain the funny-smelling oil and I don't think it's coincidence that my petcock leaks and my cam chain is probably in need of replacement. Also, I went about two months between warmups this last time and started it for a few minutes on Saturday but could not on Sunday. I changed the plugs and it fired up but the old plugs were soaked in gas, as I reported in the "what did you do today" thread. |
|
|
November 15th, 2012, 11:42 AM | #37 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Al
Location: NorCal
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2007 EX250F Posts: 19
|
Quote:
The "fuel in the oil" gremlin really pisses me off. And once you get gasoline in the oil, the oil filler cap will smell of gas even after the next oil change--at which point you can never be sure how much gas is or is not in the oil. I've been really paranoid about it these days, so I run the carb bowls dry before I shut the bike off every single time, no matter how long I plan on parking.
__________________________________________________
Touring on a 250? You betcha! |
|
|
November 15th, 2012, 11:44 AM | #38 | |
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
Location: Newnan, GA
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
|
|
|
November 15th, 2012, 12:05 PM | #39 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
|
i might be confusing my fzr carb boots with the ninja but i think there is a hole with a screw in it on the bottom of the carb boot that you can unscrew and thread in a welders tip, then put a little hose on the tip and lead it down to a bucket with a paper towel... if the carbs are leaking, the gas will flow down the intake boots and some gas will come down the tube and fall into the bucket... it will evaporate the next day but you'll see a stain in the paper towel from the gas that leaked, if it leaked.
you could also try removing the carbs and setting them in a bucket or something and see if they leak off the bike
__________________________________________________
|
|
November 15th, 2012, 01:31 PM | #40 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
|
The carb bowls overflow and the gas runs into the intake and into the engine. The piston rings aren't solid and have a split. The gas seeps into the crankcase through those splits.
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED! |
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Leak on right fork seal | AmyF | 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 17 | July 11th, 2014 09:29 AM |
Is it normal for oil to increase a bit in the crankcase after an oil change? | cadd | 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 10 | May 15th, 2014 08:38 PM |
OEM Brand New Fork Oil Seal, Dust Seal (08-12) | capriccio | Motorcycle-related | 3 | June 9th, 2013 05:11 AM |
Fork seal and oil advice | capriccio | 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 1 | July 23rd, 2011 04:05 AM |
Oil leak around shifter seal. | neiman007 | 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 5 | September 9th, 2010 02:17 PM |
|
|