July 5th, 2015, 06:49 PM | #1 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: jeremy
Location: San diego
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Gas Cap Vent Issue?!
Hey all I recently bought a 2004 EX250F with very very low miles. So needless to say it's been sitting forever. This thing has been a nightmare for me to try to get to a reliable condition.
Here's what I've done: - Complete carb clean and rebuild (I've done the cleaning several times and the float valves kept flooding while I was riding due to failure) - Idle Mixture screws set to 2.5 turns out - Valve Adjustment to max dimension (0.005" on intake and 0.006" on the exhaust) - New petcock as the previous one just had a slow drip regardless of vacuum or not - New Air Filter - Carbs Synced - Cali EVAP removed. On the back of the tank I have 3 spaces where hoses used to connect. Left (red) was capped), middle has a hose that is routed to the hose cluster. Right (blue) is from what I understand a breather line and I also routed that to the hose cluster. Today I was riding and it started sputtering going around 70 mph and would not respond appropriately to throttle. I backed off the rpms and noticed that gas was at a lower level than normal in my fuel filter. I figured that it is being starved of fuel. I got to the restaurant and parked it. After my meal I made it about 14 miles and it started sputtering really bad and I pulled over as it shut off. I noticed there was no fuel in the fuel filter so I pulled off the vacuum line and applied some until the filter filled back up about half way. I made it another mile and it died again. This time, I whipped out my phone to research a bit and I saw somewhere that I could try riding with the gas tank open as it could be a good indicator for the problem. I fired it up and made it another 3 miles back home. Upon arrival, I shut it down and opened the gas tank to a big "whoosh" sound. At home, I removed the petcock, thinking it might be clogged or something. Nope still looks brand new, I turned it to on and reserve and applied vacuum and whatever gas was in there came right out in one solid healthy looking stream. I pulled the vacuum line from the petcock and placed a piece of paper near the opening and started the bike. THere was definitely a strong vacuum present. This all makes me think it has something to do with the tank not being vented properly and thus, even with a strong vacuum present is not allowing fuel to flow to the carbs. I took off the gas cap to look for a smoking gun but didn't see anything crazy. If it is something with the gas cap, what could it be? What am I missing? How do I get this thing to run properly? Thank you |
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July 5th, 2015, 08:12 PM | #2 | |
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Quote:
These are the guts of your gas cap: http://forums.ninja250.org/posting.p...&t=81112&tro=1 http://forums.ninja250.org/viewtopic...alninja#790190
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July 5th, 2015, 08:23 PM | #3 |
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Name: jeremy
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I took that cap apart and sprayed some carb cleaner in there the vent put it back on the bike and it's still having the same issue
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July 5th, 2015, 08:26 PM | #4 |
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You need you to disassemble the gas cap and remove the two small red diaphragms, assuming this is your only problem.
The diaphragm gets hard and losses it's flexibility and gets stuck, and doesn't allow proper venting. IMHO this modification should be done regardless to prevent future problems whatsoever.
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July 5th, 2015, 08:32 PM | #5 |
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How so you get the 2 check valves out?
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July 5th, 2015, 08:37 PM | #6 |
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You need to remove the gas cap from the lid, then with a pair of needle noses pliers remove the plastic piece that holds the diaphragms as shown in the pictures.
If you need some more pictures let me know. I would recommend removing the whole cap assembly from the tank to avoid dropping anything into the tank.
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July 5th, 2015, 08:48 PM | #7 |
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Name: jeremy
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@Ghostt how do you get the black plastic plate off to reveal the vent paths? I don't have mine in front of me yet. Also you mentioned something regarding a modification. What modification is that? I must've missed it
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July 5th, 2015, 09:02 PM | #8 | |
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July 5th, 2015, 09:33 PM | #10 |
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Name: jeremy
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Oh I see what you're saying. Remove both of the check valves. But they're a one way valve, what are they sealing out?
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July 5th, 2015, 10:05 PM | #11 |
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They are ment to vent the tank, but in the case of an accident not allow gas to leak out, but more often cause problems then they fix.
Here are some pictures to help you. The plastic piece houses the two small red diaphragm pieces, this one being mine, they are already gone, and you can leave the plastic piece out all together, as I'm going to do now. Some things to watch out for are, there are 5 small springs under the round collar, and a small round collar as well on the locking mechanism, don't lose any of them. Good luck.
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July 5th, 2015, 10:10 PM | #12 |
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They are ment to vent the tank, but in the case of an accident not allow gas to leak out, but more often cause problems then they fix.
Here are some pictures to help you. The plastic piece houses the two small red diaphragm pieces, this one being mine, they are already gone, and you can leave the plastic piece out all together, as I'm going to do now. Some things to watch out for are, there are 5 small springs under the round collar, and a small round collar as well on the locking mechanism, don't lose any of them. Good luck.
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July 5th, 2015, 10:56 PM | #13 |
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Name: jeremy
Location: San diego
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thanks ghostt. I just removed them and reinstalled the cap. Unfortunately, I've run out of time tonight so I can't test ride it till tomorrow
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July 5th, 2015, 10:59 PM | #14 |
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If it wasn't the issue now, at least it will never be in the future.
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July 5th, 2015, 11:10 PM | #15 |
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Something else to check is the drain line off the back off the tank itself, if you have access to an air compressor, blow air into the line coming off the back off the tank, to make sure it's not blocked, make sure you have the cap open, and you have something blocked the opening to make sure nothing falls into the tank, just in case.
If the tank drain becomes clogged it also leads to water in the tank issues as well, so make sure the drain stay clear, especially if you keep the bike outside a lot . How do I know all this? Yup, I've had this happened to me with my EX500 which uses the same tank/gas cap setup.
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July 6th, 2015, 10:34 AM | #16 |
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California gas cap system is a little different. On those, the cap vents through a rubber sealing grommet to one of the steel tubes that runs down through the inside of the tank and out the back under the seat. That tube used to be connected to the EVAP system, now that the EVAP is gone that tube needs to be connected to a rubber hose that runs down to the bottom of the bike and hangs free. That way if fuel winds up making it through the checkvalves in the bike, say from thermal expansion after filling the tank, the fuel will spill harmlessly onto the pavement instead of running out over the battery and other places under the seat. Make sure that the metal tube that runs from the filler cap recess drain is connected to a hose that also dumps out under the bike. The third tube at the back of the tank dumps out at the top inside of the tank, that was the liquid fuel return from the EVAP unit. The fuel that the EVAP unit used to catch and return is now dumping out under the bike.
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July 6th, 2015, 04:23 PM | #17 |
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Name: jeremy
Location: San diego
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Thanks so much you guys! I think it's running properly now. I rode it around for about 10 miles and the fuel level in the filter seems to be good, if not full. I think it finally is good to go. Now I'm thinking about selling it lol
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July 8th, 2015, 09:12 AM | #18 |
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Name: bob
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I'm curious does anyone make a vented keyless gas cap that would fit the pregen?
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July 8th, 2015, 09:20 AM | #19 | |
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Quote:
One of the "best" answers was "you can drill a very small hole in the cap" WTF???!!!! LOL
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July 8th, 2015, 10:40 AM | #20 | |
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Quote:
Seems to be working fine. |
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July 8th, 2015, 03:26 PM | #21 | |
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Quote:
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July 9th, 2015, 06:29 AM | #22 |
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We haven't added a vent, and my son has been riding it quite a bit without issue.
I'll ask him to open it after riding for a while and see if he gets any air rushing in, but I would think any lack of venting would have shown up by now. |
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July 9th, 2015, 01:07 PM | #23 |
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As the famous saying goes "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
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July 10th, 2015, 03:18 PM | #24 |
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July 12th, 2021, 01:45 PM | #25 |
ninjette.org member
Name: rossi
Location: Cali
Join Date: Apr 2021 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: 20
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Having Same issue
Did it fix the problem?
I painted my tank and now Im having fuel starvation issues. I may have blocked all vents how should I open them back up? |
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July 12th, 2021, 01:58 PM | #26 |
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Are you having issues?
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July 12th, 2021, 08:52 PM | #27 |
ninjette.org member
Name: rossi
Location: Cali
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My bike is I think starving fuel around 6.5k rpm, it stutters and seems like it will die. But when I throttle more or roll off the throttle it comes back. I was reading the thread in the morning and got to test the bike with fuel cap open and it made no difference.
Does that mean I have ruled out my gas tank problem? The problem is still there but opening the gas didn't change anything. I do think there is a lot to address so I'll make a separate post. |
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