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Old September 27th, 2015, 01:54 PM   #1
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Rider panics during hard braking and crashes

This is pretty horrible to watch, so don't watch it if you're sensitive to crash videos.

The rider reports only suffering a double-fractured ankle from this, but it's pretty scary to see the crash and hear him in pain after.

Link to original page on YouTube.

I personally think it's good for riders (myself included) to see videos like this.

This is a good reminder why we wear gear. This guy seemed to be wearing a helmet and gloves but no other proper protection.

This is a reminder to practice emergency stops. This guy lost control in a panic.

Generally it's a good idea to ride offset from the car/bike in front so you have the option of making a slight steering adjustment and overshooting.

Also this is a reminder to pay attention at all times. He didn't hear the fire truck but he should have been scanning the roundabout for dangers and visually noticed it. The green light doesn't mean it's safe to go.

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Old September 27th, 2015, 02:58 PM   #2
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The biggest reminder here is maintain safe following distance. He was less than a second behind the rider in front, not leaving him enough time to make a good decision.
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Old September 27th, 2015, 03:13 PM   #3
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^ ... and if you're going to crash, do it near a fireman that guy who came to his aid was a rescue ninja.
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Old September 27th, 2015, 05:45 PM   #4
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Old October 4th, 2015, 02:48 PM   #5
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From the description:
Quote:
Q. Why didn't you hear the fire engine?
A. My friends Harley has a loud after-market exhaust which made it so that I couldn't hear it.
Loud pipes save lives cause accidents.
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Old October 10th, 2015, 01:11 AM   #6
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Old October 10th, 2015, 07:33 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InvisiBill View Post
Loud pipes save lives cause accidents.
While that statement may be true, they've saved lives more than otherwise.
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Old October 10th, 2015, 09:29 AM   #8
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He wasn't looking far enough forward either. Look how long we can see the ambulance in the video (which means he could have seen it longer) before he starts braking. Situational awareness. Scan way further ahead than you need, that way you can react to what is happening.



Quote:
Originally Posted by xXecuterXx2 View Post
While that statement may be true, they've saved lives more than otherwise.
No. You may not have enough experience on the road from a cager's perspective to know why you're wrong looking at this from the motorcyclist's perspective, but I'd like to give you a little scenario as a thought experiment. Yes, to you, your bike is loud. You're straddling the engine and hearing every little thing. In fact, the bike and the wind are so loud you wear earplugs to prevent ringing ears (if you don't do this, you should be).

Now think about an average car. Closed windows, radio at a level that allows for casual conversation, fan on so it doesn't feel stuffy, engine and exhaust note, etc. Now there's a motorcycle in your blind spot that you don't see. He passes you. You suddenly snap your head around and see him AS HIS PIPES ARE LEVEL WITH YOUR MIRROR, and not when those loud pipes would have saved him from going unnoticed in your blind spot.

Loud pipes don't save lives. Loud pipes lose rider rights. Look how many cases the AMA has had to battle with city/state/federal laws that are about banning motorcycle access in specific areas due to noise violations.

You and I both have a Muzzy pipe. They're loud, but not a Harley brand of Stupid Loud. If you're conscious of your surroundings and don't go blasting through neighborhoods at 10,000 rpm's in the middle of the night, we can minimize our impact on town. It's called being polite.




Moral of story, don't go blindly sharing the Loud Pipes Save Lives mantra, because it's uninformed, self serving, and wrong.
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Old October 10th, 2015, 12:50 PM   #9
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^ I've got an area-p full system: it just falls within the legal db limit here. Cars do seem to notice me on my bike. I often have people noticing me and reacting to my presence. I'm pretty sure they hear me. I don't rely on that extra road presence: I always assume people haven't seen me. Still nice to have it though.

I do try to keep the revs low when passing through residential areas at night.
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Old October 23rd, 2015, 06:53 AM   #10
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rider was completely oblivious to surroundings, how do you not see the emergency vehicle way sooner?

And always take cues from other vehicles, not saying do what they do but, when a vehicle does something out of the ordinary like slow way down at an intersection despite a green light, don't just think "dumb idiot driver" and grab a handful of throttle to zip past and or around them in spite to show how bad ass you are.
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Old October 23rd, 2015, 07:16 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choneofakind View Post
No. You may not have enough experience on the road from a cager's perspective to know why you're wrong looking at this from the motorcyclist's perspective, but I'd like to give you a little scenario as a thought experiment. Yes, to you, your bike is loud. You're straddling the engine and hearing every little thing. In fact, the bike and the wind are so loud you wear earplugs to prevent ringing ears (if you don't do this, you should be).

Now think about an average car. Closed windows, radio at a level that allows for casual conversation, fan on so it doesn't feel stuffy, engine and exhaust note, etc. Now there's a motorcycle in your blind spot that you don't see. He passes you. You suddenly snap your head around and see him AS HIS PIPES ARE LEVEL WITH YOUR MIRROR, and not when those loud pipes would have saved him from going unnoticed in your blind spot.

Loud pipes don't save lives. Loud pipes lose rider rights. Look how many cases the AMA has had to battle with city/state/federal laws that are about banning motorcycle access in specific areas due to noise violations.

You and I both have a Muzzy pipe. They're loud, but not a Harley brand of Stupid Loud. If you're conscious of your surroundings and don't go blasting through neighborhoods at 10,000 rpm's in the middle of the night, we can minimize our impact on town. It's called being polite.




Moral of story, don't go blindly sharing the Loud Pipes Save Lives mantra, because it's uninformed, self serving, and wrong.


Wasn't talking about that particular situation, but you're right about that and i see where you're coming from. I spoke from a personal experience type of view, many a time i've had people tell me thats its a good thing they heard me before they cut me off and ended my life, so with that being said, I'm sticking with my personal opinion, just as you should yours Again, these loud pipes didn't do **** to help, but i was saying more often than not, (IME) they help more than they don't.
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Old October 23rd, 2015, 08:10 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xXecuterXx2 View Post


Wasn't talking about that particular situation, but you're right about that and i see where you're coming from. I spoke from a personal experience type of view, many a time i've had people tell me thats its a good thing they heard me before they cut me off and ended my life, so with that being said, I'm sticking with my personal opinion, just as you should yours Again, these loud pipes didn't do **** to help, but i was saying more often than not, (IME) they help more than they don't.
Based on my 1,300,000 miles of driving and 55,000 miles riding experience, it is my opinion you are wrong. More often than not loud pipes confuse and piss-off drivers, putting the rider in more danger.
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Old October 23rd, 2015, 09:35 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xXecuterXx2 View Post
...I'm sticking with my personal opinion, just as you should yours Again, these loud pipes didn't do **** to help, but i was saying more often than not, (IME) they help more than they don't.
Except my view isn't an opinion. Go search online for cases where the AMA has fought in court so that we don't get aftermarket pipes outlawed and/or motorcycles banned entirely. New York City, Hilton Head Island just to name a couple. It's a growing problem caused by riders with your same attitude, justifying their excess noise pollution on safety.

I'm not saying ditch the pipe, I'm saying be aware and considerate of your surroundings. Also, being completely aware of the traffic around you and riding defensively (read: not staying in blind spots where noise is relied upon for making your presence known) is the only tactic that will reliably keep you safe. You're young, even younger than me. Learn this now. Practice it. Take it to heart. Drop the "loud pipes save lives" attitude and ride smart. More important that loving the ride is making it home safe after every ride in order to ride again. That means not being a dolt and arrogantly proclaiming that your loud pipe will save you from going unnoticed. Take responsibility for your own safety. Take initiative to be a safer rider and a responsible advocate for good riders. Be an enthusiast with your bike mods and make it sound such that you go weak at the knees when it screams to red line; but understand how that gets viewed by the general non-riding public and do everything to improve that image.

Responsible risk when riding, respectful actions as a rider to reduce impact on the community. boom.
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Old October 23rd, 2015, 10:10 AM   #14
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Old October 23rd, 2015, 01:36 PM   #15
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eh, he was following fine. his problem was that he was simply not paying attention.
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Old October 23rd, 2015, 01:37 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xXecuterXx2 View Post
While that statement may be true, they've saved lives more than otherwise.
show me one instance where a loud pipe has saved a life. i'll be you $1 that you can't find one.
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Old October 23rd, 2015, 01:47 PM   #17
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One of my friends got sideswiped last year. He was next to a car and the car simply switched lanes into him.

Funny bit was he was on a STRAIGHT PIPED GSXR750. That thing was deafening loud.

Drivers response was that he didn't see him there.
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Old October 23rd, 2015, 01:51 PM   #18
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I'm not into the loud pipes save lives mantra, but it's pretty obvious they give you more road presence and it's also pretty obvious that many riders get knocked off their bikes because... "sorry mate I didn't see you".

Why not both do what you can to increase your road presence (reasonably loud pipe + modulated headlights + decent horn upgrade) and ride defensively, assuming-always that no-one can see you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alex.s View Post
show me one instance where a loud pipe has saved a life. i'll be you $1 that you can't find one.
It's going to be pretty difficult to find any cases like that as the rider would have survived and then you can't really prove that the rider would have died had they had a quiet pipe. Conversely it's much easier to find cases of riders who did die despite having loud pipes... as they are now dead... so you can like... prove they had a loud pipe and like... died.
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Old November 13th, 2015, 12:34 PM   #19
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I have loudish pipes. I don't rely on them for collision avoidance. I short shift in neighborhoods to be courteous. My pipes aren't that loud to those ahead of me due to the fact that they are pointing backwards, which most certainly limits their effectiveness as a way to make other drivers aware of me.

All that said, I don't think those facts limits their effectiveness to zero either. Am I safer by a factor of two because I have loudish pipes? No way. But I am safer by some smaller percentage. Just to speculate, perhaps 10% safer? 5%? But regardless, somewhat safer.
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